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Chapter 11 announced

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2 hours ago, MattR said:

I think you need a running sum. And since we've been watching elections for a week, graphs and pie charts and confidence ranges :)

Boo. Hiss. Boo.

But if I had to do a running sum I believe my last estimate was 850 Methodist Churches and organizations that have filed claims as of around Friday 11/6.

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Our United Methodist Church just submitted its claim this evening. Fortunately I was able to work with our leadership team and church attorney for the past month  to give them the background and a heads up. The national UMC office in Nashville was very helpful to us in the process.  Thanks to Gil Hanke and Steve Scheid. For our church and Scouting units, the process went smoothly and was uneventful. That was not the case with some other chartered organizations in our council. One chartered organization (non Methodist) in our district ceased their sponsorship immediately citing liability concerns. Others are questionable whether they will recharter next year.  They are beginning to realize that their commitment as a sponsor goes beyond providing the keys to the church basement on Wednesday evenings. 

 

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4 hours ago, gpurlee said:

Our United Methodist Church just submitted its claim this evening. 

Question ... What is the claim for ?  

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Hopefully the claim will never be needed and we have no reason at this time to think it will be. We filed the claim upon recommendation of the legal counsel of our conference and the national office. Legal counsel advised us that after the close date of November 16 for claims in the national BSA bankruptcy, there is the possible risk that should a claim for an unanticipated past incident or even a fraudulent claim be filed sometime in the future, we have the risk of not having insurance coverage and indemnification through the BSA unless we have a "placeholder claim" filed.  We discussed our intent with our local council also.  It is a precautionary legal move. As a side note, we continue to be very supportive of the value of the BSA program as a ministry.

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1 hour ago, gpurlee said:

Hopefully the claim will never be needed and we have no reason at this time to think it will be. We filed the claim upon recommendation of the legal counsel of our conference and the national office. Legal counsel advised us that after the close date of November 16 for claims in the national BSA bankruptcy, there is the possible risk that should a claim for an unanticipated past incident or even a fraudulent claim be filed sometime in the future, we have the risk of not having insurance coverage and indemnification through the BSA unless we have a "placeholder claim" filed.  We discussed our intent with our local council also.  It is a precautionary legal move. As a side note, we continue to be very supportive of the value of the BSA program as a ministry.

In this process, did you learn how to determine an amount for the claim?  I gather that one has to file a claim for a set amount.  However, how does one determine an amount for claim that may or may not one day be filed for an event that may or may not have occurred?  As I've looked this process, that's been one of my lingering questions.

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That is a good question for a bankruptcy attorney. In reviewing several of the claims that have been submitted, many of them have left that section blank or stated simply "unknown at this time".  

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1 hour ago, gpurlee said:

That is a good question for a bankruptcy attorney. In reviewing several of the claims that have been submitted, many of them have left that section blank or stated simply "unknown at this time".  

The explanation I got was that it is simply a placeholder claim. It's like saying to the court that if x, y, and z happen and I am potentially liable due to the loss of your (BSA) promised protection, I may have claims of unknown amounts depending on what happens. Lawyers can correct me if wrong. 

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From the article and doing the math, the 93 year old suing the BSA was abused sometime between 1936 when he was 9 years old and 1944 when he was 18. That is over 80 years ago. Folk involved are long dead, including the parents who would have made the decision to press charges or not. And from my research many parents chose not to.

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14 hours ago, BAJ said:

According to a New York Times article, the total number of claims is now above 82,000.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/us/boy-scouts-abuse-claims-bankruptcy.html

 

How did it grow to 82,000?  I thought this was always in the 10,000 range (max).  The best "win" for the plaintiffs I have seen is the Milwaukee Archdiocese.  It took 4 years in court.  They were able to reduce the claims by 43% and hold payments down to $64K each.  With 82,000 claims, the equivalent for the BSA would be a $3.0B settlement.  

I think we are on the edge of liquidation.  BSA will need to make an offer just short of liquidation … keep enough so they can survive but provide so much that pursuing further legal action on the plaintiff side wouldn't be worth it.  That probably means selling off most if not all HA bases and the artwork.  It will also probably mean selling off a large portion of council properties (or councils will be the next target).

Incredibly sad as the youth today will pay the price for something that occurred decades ago by people no longer involved in scouting.  Given that the lawyers will probably take 40%, the individual victims will be walking away with very little.

 

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It's sad, and deeply ironic, that by coming forth and trying to create a settlement fund to compensate victims, the BSA will actually be destroyed by it. This seems like it'll be a total liquidation of national and council assets. 

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Then the main lawyers will have accomplished their objective - to see the BSA dissolved and gone.  That is what they want more than any monetary gain for them or the claimants.  The money would just be icing.

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56 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

It's sad, and deeply ironic, that by coming forth and trying to create a settlement fund to compensate victims, the BSA will actually be destroyed by it. This seems like it'll be a total liquidation of national and council assets. 

Actually what I find sad and deeply ironic is that the only legal way to protect youth the BSA had time before mandatory reporting laws, the Ineligible Volunteer Files, is now being used to show they knew abuse was prevalent and should have been reported using todays legal standards, and not he legal standards of the time.

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19 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Actually what I find sad and deeply ironic is that the only legal way to protect youth the BSA had time before mandatory reporting laws, the Ineligible Volunteer Files, is now being used to show they knew abuse was prevalent and should have been reported using todays legal standards, and not he legal standards of the time.

I was talking with several ASMs recently.  We were attempting to think of a youth organization, today, that has a better youth protection policy than BSA.  We couldn't think of one.  Sports teams, schools, churches, etc. typically have less restrictive policies than BSA.  We remarked the number of times we saw 1 on 1 contact, no 2 deep leadership, no YPT training, etc.  So, the lawyers, are essentially destroying the organization that probably has one of the best youth protection polices in place today due to sins of 20+ years ago.

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6 minutes ago, sri_oa161 said:

Then the main lawyers will have accomplished their objective - to see the BSA dissolved and gone.  That is what they want more than any monetary gain for them or the claimants.  The money would just be icing.

Lawyers will certainly gain in the end, but they are just a tool for the means to an end. 

I mentioned before of a discussion where a gay activist said their mission was to culturally demean any intuition who infers homosexuality as immoral. When he was asked about the institution's overall good for the culture, he didn't care one way or the other.

I believe most folks who going after the BSA are like the gay activist, they don't care if the Boy Scout program survives to do good things, they just want their pound' of flesh, so to speak,. If the BSA survives, fine. Not a priority, but ok.

Could it be that the only surviving national scouting program will be the sexist GSUSA?

Barry

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