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EmberMike

Sunday Morning segment on the BSA

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1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Even the second boy standing next to his sister looked demoralized.

 

Thought the same thing, he looked like a very sad prop.  "Hey kid...make sure you stand at least 1 step behind your sister"

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The message of this CBS piece is clear: The Scouting movement as a boy organization is dying. The future of Scouting is girls. The demise of yet another traditional American institution (no wonder the media is so gleefully reporting it).

Benedict Surbaugh is actively promoting this message in his full-access interview with CBS.

Let's see how this works. Sales of Pontiac cars are dropping. Pontiac diehards love the brand because of storied performance cars like GTO, Firebird, and TransAm, but the new models have been unexciting sedans and even generic minivans. In desperation, the Pontiac division head (an account who never really loved cars) decides to pick customers from the dying carcass of Oldsmobile, a brand known for its retiree cruisers. In the end, both Pontiac and Oldsmobile fail even faster because of brand confusion which attracts few new customers but alienates many long-time loyalists.  Pontiac and Oldsmobile executives bail out with self-congratulatory high-fives and huge golden parachutes.

 

FamilyScouting.jpg

Edited by gblotter
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Let's all please call people by their correct names, and not make up nicknames.  The CSE's name is Michael Surbaugh, or if one prefers, just Surbaugh, or if you want to just use his title, he's the CSE.

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On 2/4/2018 at 8:54 PM, NJCubScouter said:

I think I have said this before, but I wish that the BSA, as its first decision after letting girls into Cub Scouts, had NOT issued a new article of clothing for the girl-Cubs that emphasizes differences between the genders.  Why couldn’t they just let the girls wear the regular blue shorts and long pants?  And if necessary, offer a girls’ version, the same thing the boys are wearing, just a different “cut.”

I really hope that when the Girl Boy Scouts starts, they just let them wear the uniform pants or shorts and not have a green “skort.”

Is there a “skort” for female Venturers?

 

 

If what the girl wants matters at all, lots of girls want skirts.  I know my own daughter prefers skirts and dresses.  Sometimes it's a fight just to get her to wear jeans. 

I'm a little confused tho, the difference between genders is as plain as using one's eyes.  It's been universally acknowledged for all of human history.   There's no emphasis needed.  I thought the whole point of this family scouting thing was to accept and capitalize on the differences in genders (single-gender programs) while providing the quality content of the program.   

As for Venturers... I don't know, but Scouting Magazine floated this image around a little while back when touting Woodbadge. 

skort.JPG

Edited by Gwaihir

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Ah!  No above the knee skirts!    I think the dress code where I worked once was 2" above the knee max.   This one is a little short. 

Edited by WisconsinMomma

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On 2/4/2018 at 7:10 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

I routinely hear that the drop in membership in 70's was caused by the program change. I can't say for sure, because I was not involved at that time, certainly not as an adult leader. So I went in search of some numbers. I found some here http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/443_boy_scouts_and_girl_scouts_membership.html

I decided to chart the numbers for BSA and GSUSA. The dates are a bit strange in the spacing 10 years, 5, 5 then one year increments after that. The gaps in the data can hide a few things like actuall peaks and valleys, but the general trend line remains fairly accurate. The data ends in 1999, so there are no status for this century.

A few things I noticed.
1. BSA and GSUSA both take a similar dive in numbers from 1970 to 1980. BSA's drop is marginally worse.
2. BSA's numbers recover more robustly - great gains than GSUSA each year following 1980
3. BSA's numbers eventually exceed the 1970 peak, GSUSA's do regain their 1970 level

That begs the question, if BSA's membership drop was primarily about the program change, then why did GSUSA's numbers follow an almost identical decrease trend?

5a77ca829fd71_ScreenShot2018-02-04at9_48_41PM.thumb.png.1b303abc7cccfad11c6861083a6ce7f7.png

 

If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999?

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29 minutes ago, ghjim said:

If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999?

2.7 millions is generous. You'd have to include ALL BSA programs according to the 2016 Annual Report. It is more like 2.3m if you count Cubs, Boy Scouts, Explorers/Varsity and Venturing. Actually that number was revised downward a bit later in 2017. I think the real number is between 2.1-2.2m.

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29 minutes ago, ghjim said:

If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999?

Some ideas are here

 

 

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I will throw 2 cents in and say -- I think the skorts and socks are fabulous.  Now, they may not be practical for camp wear, but they are modest, appropriate and good-looking for meeting wear, they give girls an opportunity NOT to look like the boys, and they make a great look for photographs.  Yes, photographs, and we live in a Facebook - Instagram digital camera world where there will be many photos of girls in Cubs.  

Personally I was hoping for dusty purple shirts for the girls (LOL), but keeping the navy uniform and adding a skort is great, IMO.   There's no harm, and sharp uniforms attract many children to Scouting.  

Thank you for sharing the CBS Sunday morning info, I will watch it.  

Edited by WisconsinMomma
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28 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I will throw 2 cents in and say -- I think the skorts and socks are fabulous.  Now, they may not be practical for camp wear, but they are modest, appropriate and good-looking for meeting wear, they give girls an opportunity NOT to look like the boys, and they make a great look for photographs.  Yes, photographs, and we live in a Facebook - Instagram digital camera world where there will be many photos of girls in Cubs.  

Personally I was hoping for dusty purple shirts for the girls (LOL), but keeping the navy uniform and adding a skort is great, IMO.   There's no harm, and sharp uniforms attract many children to Scouting. 

Well, we usually seem to agree on most things, but not this time.  (But I'm not going to down-vote your post like you did to mine.  :)  )

A note on the socks:  I think that in my entire life (which has included being a Cub Scout and later a Den Leader and Assistant Cubmaster), I have never seen a Cub Scout wearing the official socks, before I saw this video and photo.  (In most of the packs in my area, the kids don't even wear the official pants, they all wear jeans, but that's a different discussion.)  I think the presence of Cub Scout socks supports the suggestion made by a couple of people above that this was sort of a "setup" for marketing/promotional purposes.  Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, but if you're going to "stage" something, it is better not to be so obvious about it.

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38 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

As for skirts I am for skirts or shorts but no skorts BUT I say let customer demand drive that decision and see what happens. I do think that there needs to be some sort of correlation between skirt lengths for girls and short lengths for boys...I guess that could be a quagmire the way girls grow so fast sometimes and how long BSA has had the shorts the last few years. Maybe we can compromise and everyone can wear the old 70's "hot pants" (my scouts name for them)...yeah they'd all look pretty leggy but they'd be consistent. 

Customer demand?  The BSA will tell you what you demand!  :D

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1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

Well, we usually seem to agree on most things, but not this time.  (But I'm not going to down-vote your post like you did to mine.  :)  )

Sorry, I used the down to show disagreement, and wasn't sure if I'd make my own post about skorts or not.  

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17 hours ago, ghjim said:

 

If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999?

I can tell you for a fact that the 1999 figures were inflated. Does Ronnie Holmes and Greater Alabama Council ring a bell? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan28.html

Sadly, he was not the only one inflating membership. One of the reasons I quit being a DE was being pressured to inflate membership. The pressure was intense, and affecting my health and life. It got so bad, it was affecting the wife, who gave me the ultimatum: her or the job.  Interesting thing was that once I left, several units I allowed to drop were recharted. Thank goodness I have kept a copy of ALL the paperwork I submitted, and didn't submit. That saved my job when I worked for national because my old boss tried to blame me for the membership issues. The records showed I gave him the dropped units.

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28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I can tell you for a fact that the 1999 figures were inflated. Does Ronnie Holmes and Greater Alabama Council ring a bell? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan28.html

Sadly, he was not the only one inflating membership. One of the reasons I quit being a DE was being pressured to inflate membership. The pressure was intense, and affecting my health and life. It got so bad, it was affecting the wife, who gave me the ultimatum: her or the job.  Interesting thing was that once I left, several units I allowed to drop were recharted. Thank goodness I have kept a copy of ALL the paperwork I submitted, and didn't submit. That saved my job when I worked for national because my old boss tried to blame me for the membership issues. The records showed I gave him the dropped units.

This is exactly why BSA deflates the numbers later on in the year after the annual report. Council "wring out" their rolls at different times, so the real numbers never get reported until late in the calendar year.

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