Service Stars, Consecutive?

[krypton_son]

Ok so the leaders in my Troop have been debating an issue for a while.  We have a new leader in the Troop.  He first joined Scouts in 1986.  He was an active youth until he turned 18.  Then was a very active leader and Scoutmaster he eventually stopped being an active dues paying member about 15 years ago when he moved out of state.  He has however never stopped being associated with scouting or helping out.  His nephew in our troop and he has been a real help to us for a while now. Occasionally he would go on some campouts and outings, help with merit badges and courts of honor.  He has always had a presence but has never truly been "official".  Well now he has a lot more free time and has officially joined our troop.  We ordered some service stars to give out to the scouts and leaders.  When it came to his we were a bit torn.  A lot of the leaders say that his "unofficial' years can't be counted.  Most of us feel that since he has always been an informal member and has in many ways dedicated his life to scouts that it should all count.  Another leader pointed out that since he earned his Eagle Scout rank that he's a scout for life, no matter what.  I don't think it matters to him one way or the other, he's just glad to help.  What are your thoughts?

[qwazse]

Lot's of answers here: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/04/02/service-stars-for-scouts-and-scouters-pins-with-a-point/

But questions similar to yours (e.g. time spent in another country's scouting unit) went unanswered. The working assumption is that registration is used to count years.

 

I suspect if you called your council HQ, and talked to more than one experienced professional scouter, you would get more than one answer. The likely answer: it's your unit's decision.

 

But, if he gets word that you all are spending a lick of time fussing over this, I'd suspect you all will be seeing some stars! Eagles are most proud of their silver knot. Get that right for him, and you're golden. With that in mind, give him the stars for his time registered, and let him know you'll put a call in asking if you can add the years he was volunteering "off the books."

[krypton_son]

I agree.  And honestly, I don't think it really matters for him, he's never been big on self recognition, he just loves Scouting and loves helping out.

[blw2]

personally, I'd leave it to the scouts to decide and present.

 

It really makes not a hill of beans difference in the big scheme of things.... I'll bet officially, it's registered time, but "honorary" time would work for me....

[Oldscout448]

How about a year pin with a different colored plastic backer? Gold or pink or whatever for "special services " to the troop.

 

If anyone asks he will have a story to tell.

[Stosh]

My vote would be the number of registered years.

 

I don't think playing elitism of Eagles always being scouts is any difference than any other FC scout that spends a lifetime of working with Scouts, helping out in their churches, doing community projects, and maybe even having a career in the outdoors. 

 

Of course there are a few of us out there that have no idea who many years they have racked up in scouting.  I lost count many years ago and never wore the service stars anyway.

 

Next thing they'll be asking is if it's possible to double count when dual registered....

Edited November 14, 2016 by Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

I've always figured that Life and Eagle are both ranks, so if my brother and my son are both Eagles for Life, then I am a Life for Life.  I can tell myself that, anyway.  But I still don't get service stars for the time I spent away from Scouting, from about halfway through college until I became a Bear den leader for my son's den about 22 years later.

 

It sounds to me like this guy would be just as happy playing by the rules and getting his service stars for registered service. 

[qwazse]

I've always figured that Life and Eagle are both ranks, so if my brother and my son are both Eagles for Life, then I am a Life for Life.  I can tell myself that, anyway.  But I still don't get service stars for the time I spent away from Scouting, from about halfway through college until I became a Bear den leader for my son's den about 22 years later.

 

It sounds to me like this guy would be just as happy playing by the rules and getting his service stars for registered service.

 

We'll I figure you have probably already done whatever a fella would need to do for Eagle anyway, so you're something more than Life in rank.

 

There are folks who do more for scouting in unofficial capacities. (I hope so, because all of these training requirements and increased fees have led to plummeting roles.) But, they probably aren't suckers for those stars.

[CalicoPenn]

It's usually the simplest things that cause the most arguments.

 

Here's what the BSA says about Service Stars:

 

Who Can Earn This Award?

Any adult or youth member who have at least one year of tenure in Scouting.

 

That's pretty much it.  Simple, right?  Of course not, this is Scouting - and never underestimate Scouter's (collectively) ability to complicate something that seems simple.  Yes, many times the BSA's wording of things leaves a lot to be desired, and a lot to interpretation, but sometimes, I think we Scouters like to interpret simple sentences like the above just because we've become so good at parsing BSA sentences.

 

The correct, BSA answer would be that your new leader did not earn a service star for the years in which he was unofficial.  Why?  Because he wasn't a member.  That's the key word right there - member.  Any member can earn it.  If you're not a member, you can't earn credit for it, even if you are helping out in an unofficial capacity.

 

So what's the correct way to go about this?  If he's been a member for a year, add the number of years he was a member previously, add one, and buy that star - he doesn't have to start over so he doesn't lose that earlier tenure - but he starts adding tenure from the time he previously left.

 

That's the correct way.  As other's have said, your unit may decide otherwise - but a word of caution.  If I've done my math right and he started in Scouting as a boy in 1986, if you count his unofficial time, you're hitting the 30-year mark, or getting close to it, and a lot of Councils start to sit up and take notice when 30+ year pins start going out the door and often want to recognize those folks, which may lead to questions.

[frankpalazzi]

Definitely award stars for time registered.  Anything else is your troop's call.  On November 28th, my stars will add up to 46.  I rarely ever wear them or any other bling on my uniform.  I wear my awards on the inside, where it counts.  Different folks weigh these things differently. To each his own.

[gumbymaster]

I wear my stars for the years of registered adult service - that I actually participated in.  I specify this, because it used to be tradition in my troop that they would keep and continue the registration of scouts whom made Eagle.  So for at least a couple of years, I was registered but did not participate. I have no idea if they actually still do this, but I have to believe from a cost point of view that they do not - if they do, it doesn't match my current scouter ID number.

 

So I have 4 years of adult service for my 18-21; and another 5 years for service since rejoining with my son - so 9 years of adult service, along with my other cub, scout, and explorer service years.

 

Now, under current guidelines for the service star - the adult CAN either wear multiple pins, as I do, OR can wear a single (or double to make the number of years work out) adult service pin which includes the years of youth membership.  I.e. 3 years of cub scouts + 7 years of boy Scouts + 3 years of Adult Service + (long gap) + 2 years of new adult service, then the leader CAN wear pins for 15 years of "adult" service (i.e. 1 10-year, and 1 5-year pin).

 

The service stars are not a tracked or registered item, so the decision to follow the official guidelines or not is really up to you; however, the Veteran service pins (available for each 5 years of service) will ONLY count registered years of service.

 

----

 

Now, here is the $64,000 question - does/should years of being ONLY (but registered) as a Merit Badge counselor count?  (Even if no scouts work with you on a merit badge that year?)

Edited November 15, 2016 by gumbymaster

[Stosh]

A merit badge counselor is a registered scouter.  He gets credit for the year.  Same for a UC who never visits or is assigned a unit.

[qwazse]

A merit badge counselor is a registered scouter.  He gets credit for the year.  Same for a UC who never visits or is assigned a unit.

 

@@Stosh, BSA registration of MBC's is fairly new. So why should the past decade of counselors count when previous decades (that's a lot of stars, BTW) do not?

 

The whole thing's a sham. That's why I never bothered to have units participate. Individuals know their own track record. They can order their own pins.

[Stosh]

I only go on the registration.  Some parents chaperone many years before actually signing on as a registered scouter.  Same kind of logic applies to the MB counselor situation.  If they fill out the form and are registered they can count the time.  @@qwazse, you are correct, people can count it any way they want and if someone was MB counselor a few years prior to signing on as a unit scouter, then they can count the time if they wish.

[krypton_son]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  In the end, I think he's just glad to help out.  I'd say we'll probably go with the registered years. We're just glad to have him aboard.