Eagle without having to build a fire? Really?

[shrubber]

How is it that a boy can earn Eagle without ever having to have lit a fire?

The only requirement I can find is for Wilderness Survival and Fire Safety that insist a boy light a fire. Neither, of course , is required for Eagle.

Kind of sad, no?

Now, I would not put much stock or faith in a Troop program that allows this, but rules are rules as they say.

 

 

[nolesrule]

Two words for why the requirements have been changed: fire bans.

[Eagle92]

Noles hit it on the nose: Fire bans. In my neck of the woods we had several months where it almost alternated between ban and no ban on a weekly or biweekly basis. In fact one council event almost, stress almost, didn't have a campfire b/c of a ban.

 

It has really gotten so bad that some units just use the camp stoves all the time for cooking.

 

That said, where there's a will, there is a way to get a fire going, even with a ban in place I'm willing to bet if you really wanted to get some fire building skills done and a ban was in place, if you talked to the local fire department, explained the situation, they may be able to assist in some way. They may be able to provide some equipment that allows you to build a fire in a controlled container, or may allow yo to build a fire, and they have "expired" fire extinguishers and/or a pumper truck.

 

We had a local agency come to CSDC and allowed the Cubs to " play with fire," i.e. use a fire extinguisher to put out a fire they created. They came out with some cool equipment to get it going, allowed every Cub to put out the fire with an "expired" extinguisher ( by expired I mean one that was used and couldn't be legally used again, but did have chemical in it still), AND helped fertilize the field with the chemical. The one time the ranger didn't mind us making a mess and not cleaning up after ourselves

[Beavah]

Yah, shrubber, in da midwest yeh don't see the fire bans as much, eh? But they're becommin' more frequent. Big chunks of Wisconsin and Michigan were under burn bans last year.

 

In da western and southern states, yeh can go for a good part of the year in the current droughts with a no-open-fires restriction in place over a wide area. A few years back we had a BSA camp in Utah lose control of a fire during wilderness survival MB. Unfortunately, it was during a burn ban. Da resulting forest fire caused about 17 million dollars in damage. The feds and the state settled with our insurers for about half.

 

Sign of the times, eh? Less and less rainfall and snowpack in many areas.

 

Beavah

 

[Slack-jawed Troglodyte]

The "City of Village Charm" where my son's troop meets allows for no open fires. However we occasionally have "newer scout" training sessions in town as a matter of convenience. When it comes to fire building skills, we have used a "Coleman" type backyard fire pit. This meets the "open" fire ban of our municipality and is condoned by the local Fire Department and constabulary, this in spite of a neighbor's protestations. Said neighbor was chastised by the FD after their call...

 

It is not an ideal option but it may allow you to do an end run around a ban...do check with your local Fire Marshall and PD, as YMMV.

 

Sorry OP, I wandered with the thread drift. I empathize with you but, sadly, have nothing more constructive to offer. If outdoor skills become more white-washed and removed from scOUTing, I think this old slack-jawed troglodyte may move on away from the movement...one can only be "inventive" to a point.

[Slack-jawed Troglodyte]

Wish I could edit or delete...

[nolesrule]

When I do my campmaster weekends at the local camp, I have to find out from the ranger whether or not I can give permission to the visiting units to build fires. When I camp with my family at state parks, they let you know at check-in whether or not fire bans are in place.

 

Under the right (wrong) dry and breezy conditions, even a small cooking fire can be a potential catalyst for danger no matter how well attended.

 

It's a shame it has to be that way, but an advancement requirement can't trump a fire ban. Sure, there may be ways to still accomplish a lit fire during a ban, depending on the limits of the ban, but in some areas it is a complete burn ban. The advice to consult with the local FD on possibilities is recommended.

 

Just a few weeks ago, when I was serving as campmaster, one of the troops was teaching fire-building. No fire ban, in fact it was damp and dreary. All the new scouts built and were able to light their own fires. You could see the pride of the accomplishment on their faces. There's just something about a real fire.

[skeptic]

We live in Southern California where wild fire is an almost constant threat. But, building a fire lay, which is a requirement at the lower level, can be done in a barbecue pit or similar location, outside the fire areas. While there is a note that a fire need not be actually lit, it is reasonable to expect them to, though there is no need to build a full blown fire to meet the requirement; simply prepare and lay it correctly, light it until it is obvious it could be built up in proper conditions, and put it out. Obviously, water or extinguishers should be on hand if necessary.

 

Not sure why we continue to make things more difficult than needed. There are work a rounds for almost any situation with a little imagination and effort.

 

JMHO(This message has been edited by skeptic)

[John-in-KC]

Chalk it up to LNT, chalk it up to fire bans, chalk it up however you want.

 

When I was a youth member, we were not allowed anywhere near stoves. Now, stoves are de rigeur

 

The object is to have the youth member apply heat to food to make it taste better, and to help warm himself.

[SeattlePioneer]

I guess there ARE advantages to living on the soggy side of the mountains in Washington State.

 

Fire bans are a relatively rare event.

 

[packsaddle]

We have burning bans once in a while but not so often as to limit an opportunity to learn how to properly build a campfire. It also helps to have a CM who just loves to build campfires (and then fiddle with them until it's really annoying, LOL).

But even with burning bans in place, the home fireplace is still available. If watching my wife's wretched attempts is any indicator, that's a good place to practice.

Also, I sincerely hope that the Slack-jawed Troglodyte sticks around. Just for the moniker if nothing else.

[evmori]

I would say burn bans are used as an excuse more than a valid reason.

[sherminator505]

"I would say burn bans are used as an excuse more than a valid reason."

 

This is probably because you receive more rain in a month than some of us receive in a year.

[Hawkrod]

I agree that some people don't comprehend what an arid climate is like. Open fires is an issue for us but we lost a big chunk of our local camp in a fire and that camp was donated because the last one was also lost in a fire. Here, where we live, our average annual precipitation is about 5 inches and is mostly snow (snow has less water in it than rain). The fire dangers here are serious and even our local city owned camping facility that has cleared areas with deep metal fire pits requires a permit from the fire department for a cooking fire but they won't even issue a permit for just a campfire (for a campfire we MUST cook marshmallows or hot dogs just to get the permit!). I agree that fire skills is a must learn but because so many people don't do it safely we are suffering.

[SeattlePioneer]

 

 

 

 

Heh, heh! These days you don't need to build a fire to have a fire in the fireplace. Just push the button and whoosh!

 

 

Wood fireplaces are relatively rare around here in dwellings built in the past twenty years or so, and in many earlier homes gas fireplace inserts or pellet stoves fill the original fireplace.

 

Frankly, conventional fireplaces are stupefyingly inefficient and that's not really much of a loss, except perhaps to Scouting.