Eagle Requirements

[Stosh]

An Eagle candidate came to me last night with what he called a speed bump in his project. The Council committee would not accept his project because he had not put 30 hours of his own time in on it. He had 120 man-hours but personally he put most of his time into planning and supervising and with a large crowd turn out, it didn't take very long. It was cleaning up and landscaping a church construction site so it was a big project. He just did a great job of planning and organizing. He put 24 hours down on the project.

 

Now this begs the question: does he fudge his numbers or fight the system. I asked him what he thought of it and he said he didn't know of any such rule in any of the material he got from BSA. I suggested he research the info and make a presentation when he goes to turn the project in again with all supporting documentation and be prepared to appeal it through the proper channels which he will also have to research and anticipate.

 

So does all this extra work on his part because the Council can't read and understand BSA policy count towards his hours?

 

Stosh

 

 

[kbandit]

I just quickly went through the Eagle app and workbook but could NOT find where there is any set number of hours for anything. Matter of fact there was a statement to the effect that there is no miniumn number of hours.

 

This is something I would love to see them produce something in writing. No one can add or subtract to the requirements that National has set forth.

 

Would love to hear the follow-up from you.

[ghermanno]

To the best of my knowlege, there are NO minimum hour requirements for Eagle projects. I have been unable to locate ANY such requirements ANYWHERE.

 

This is just another ADULT speedbump being put into a BOYs advancement.

 

My$0.02.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[eisely]

I gather that some councils are now imposing a minimum hour requirement with National's consent.

 

Be that as it may, hours that the eagle spent planning and coordinating all count. If he left those hours out then he short changed himself. I suggest that he go back over his calendar and memory and reconstruct his hours as completely and honestly as he can. I also suggest that he contact the district advancement person and the person at the council who turned it down for more specific guidance.

[nolesrule]

These make or break arbitrary rules need to be made known BEFORE the project is even started.

 

Since it's new landscaping, just have the scout spend 6 hours watering the new plants and add it to his time. That's how you fudge numbers.

 

Also make sure that any phone call, any face-to-face, including travel time, is included in the time log.

[packsaddle]

I agree with Eisely. Don't fudge anything, be honest. But he needs to include the hours of planning, etc.

There is no minimum that I've heard of in this council - I guess that could change if Eisely is correct on that.

[Eagledad]

>>I gather that some councils are now imposing a minimum hour requirement with National's consent.

[Twocubdad]

Our council recently got its nose thumped by national for having a minimum-required number of hours for an ESLP, so I rather doubt they're letting other councils slide.

 

Frankly, I always thought their minimum was low and couseled our Scouts to do more.

 

Stosh, I absolutely think the hours he spends fighting with council should count. It needs to be documented in the sharply-worded cover letter from his Scoutmaster.

 

I think it's great that the Scout is pulling the material together to challenge council, but I also think stupid adult problems need to be handled by adults. A back-door "do-you-really-want-to-get-punk-slaped-at-national-by-a-16-year-old?" phone call to the appropriate people at council is also in order.

[Oak Tree]

There is no minimum number of hours, but it has to be a sufficiently involved project that the Scout can demonstrate the necessary leadership. At some point a project would simply feel too lightweight to qualify. For example, if a Scout came forward with a project that took two hours, that wouldn't qualify, no matter how many times he said "there is no minimum number of hours required."

 

There cannot possibly be an official minimum number. From the official workbook, "How big a project is required? There are no specific requirements, as long as the project is helpful

to a religious institution, school, or community. The amount of time spent by you in planning

your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much

as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others."

 

So they wouldn't necessarily have to say that they are enforcing an official minimum (and they would be crazy to do so, in my opinion). They could say that the amount of time spent in carrying out the project was not enough to demonstrate the leadership.

 

I'm with the others...if he can easily add six hours of work, do so.

[Stosh]

 

It's his project. I know for a fact that there are no minimum hours. His dad knows for a fact that there are no minimum hours (my ASM and has experience as SM before moving into the area). But until the boy asks us, he's going to have to figure it out on his own. I didn't suggest he ask me for advice, but I did suggest he start with the national website and work from there putting together his research and then go back to the committee with information to make a case. His dad was in full agreement with me and so I'll keep everyone posted as to how he resolves HIS problem with HIS project. The scout is a bit head-strong and has refused in the past to ask anyone for help. Maybe this experience will change his mind about how he resolves problems in the future.

 

Stosh

[Oak Tree]

Very good. I like it.

 

I also like your suggestion that all the time he spends planning his appeal can count as time he's working on his project :-) Just so long as it all works out in the end...

[John-in-KC]

At the same time, Stosh, you need to be prepared for the moment where you're going to have to raise the BALONEY flag on the District?/Council? Advancement Chair on this.

 

Even if the kid figures it out, some adults are not willing to say they were wrong in dealing with a youth member.

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[evmori]

Stosh,

 

There are no minimum hours required! And if I'm not mistaken, it states that right on the workbook.

 

I would fudge nothing. What I would do is go to the Council committee with this Scout and ask them to show you where this 30 hour of your own time requirement is. After they can't produce it, demand they sign the workbook so this Scout can get started on his much needed project.

[GKlose]

Not long ago, I heard a "we like to see about 100 hours on this line" from a district advancement guy talking about an Eagle application. I even checked with an old-timer that's also been on the district committee for awhile, and the first thing he said is "some people just never get it -- there's NO minimum requirement."

 

Heard yesterday that the district advancement committee now has a few new members and they're instituting a new streamlined process so project workbooks will be approved within a week. I don't know if they've convinced the one guy that there is no 100 hour minimum, or if they've gone the other direction.

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

My $.02 worth.

 

1) As others stated there is NO minimum number of hours. Council is wrong and that is appealable.

 

2) ANY work on the project: securing permission, plannuing teh project, typing it up, recruiting folks, fundraising time, etc. IS part of the project and needs to be documented.

 

3) ANY time dealing witht he council also needs to be added Since #1 the time involved directly deals with the service project, i.e. getting approvals and whatnot, and #2 is wasting the young man's time.

 

Good for you for letting him deal with it.