Eagle - Yes or No

[evmori 11]

The situation is that a young man in a neighboring community has been convicted of a felony. He and some friends were caught in possession of a pipe bomb. My best guess is a bunch of kids horsing around. Sounds like something I might have done in my youth. But in todays environment this is a big deal and rightly so. I do not diminish the severity of this offense.

 

I decided to spin this of so we wouldn't clutter up the other thread.

 

If this Scout had satisfactorily completed all the requirements for Eagle and you sat on his Eagle BOR & knew the above, would you vote to pass him?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SSScout 1616]

Oh, it's cluttered, all right. Sorry to say, as the case was presented initially,I would probably vote 'nay'. That said:

 

I have heard many times that something less than 1(one)% of all Scouts are awarded Eagle. In light of THIS thread and several other recent and current threads, I would ask:

 

1) Is this statistic still true? Does "all Scouts" mean everyboy who EVER signed an application, from Tiger on up or exactly which bunch of Scouts?

 

2) How much beating/cajoling/encouragement does a horse need to make him drink after the water has been put in front of him?

 

3) How much truth in the allegation that the Eagle requirements have been "eased" and "modernized" to accomodate "todays" boys?

 

4) If YOU, fellow Forumates, were a 17 year old Life Scout today (assuming you'd want to be), do you think YOU could balance your academic/family/church/athletic/Scout/band/work/social(girls?) ties and desires?

 

5) Opinion of the following moral: "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce"

 

YiS still...

 

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[John-in-KC 311]

Ed,

 

There is still grey area. Is the conviction "fresh" (days to weeks old)? If so, there's an A-HA! moment in the Scout Spirit department, and it's not good.

 

OTOH,

 

The crime happened at age 13. The young man joined Scouting through a Scoutreach unit in Juvenile Hall (for MLR's sake, chartered by a non-governmental charity). The young man is now 17, and is turning his life around. That's gonna be a yes vote.

 

In both cases, if you do the process, well and carefully, you'll have a leg to stand on when the (almost inevitable) appeal comes in! We as Scouters do right by our charges when we follow the process!

[evmori 11]

Let's go with "it's a fresh conviction within the last year".

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

SSS,

 

I'm going to comment to your 3)...

 

1968-73 or so was my youth experience. Still 21 MBs, a project, tenure, and leadership, but...

STAR: 1 (yes, ONE) Eagle required badge.

LIFE: 5 Eagle required badges.

The Scout looking at Life--->Eagle was still looking uphill.

 

Today,

STAR: 4 Eagle required MBs

LIFE: 7 Eagle required MBs

The Scout looking at Life--->Eagle can see the destination, if he decides he wants to go there.

 

Composition of the Eagle required list:

It's different. With one exception, it's neither easier nor harder.

 

My exception is cooking. Cooking is given "a lick and a promise" as a young man goes from TF-FC, and then never really sees the light of day again.

 

My Cooking MB has silver thread. I had one of the first of the orange chef's hat, fork and spoon patches. To me, cooking is an essential life skill of the adult male American, and should be part of the required matrix to Eagle.

 

Of course, my own perspective and biases as a Dad are entering in here: I am no longer wed to the bride who bore our son. I've stayed single since then. Being able to make a stew, a pot roast, chili, soup or a steak from scratch is much better on my budget than going to the local watering hole.

 

 

[Oak Tree 15]

I'd probably vote 'no' on someone with a felony conviction within the last year. I'd want to see evidence of improvement. But it would depend on the details of the case. I'm not a big fan of zero-tolerance rules. It seems like soon it will be a felony for bringing scissors to school.

 

SSScout - on your question #1, about 5% of boys who are registered Boy Scouts this year will earn their Eagle. If the average boy is in Scouts for 3 years (and I don't know this number, it's just a guess), that would mean that 15% of the boys who ever register as Boy Scouts would earn Eagle.

 

Oak Tree

[John-in-KC 311]

Ed, given your parameter definition,

 

As I said earlier, there'd probably be an AH-HA! moment for the Scout, and it wouldn't be good.

 

There is one other thing I'd do, especially if I was Committee Chair: I'd find "disinterested" folk to sit this particular EBOR. Familiarity breeds contempt goes the old saying. The incident would come out (I've noticed the bad things usually rise to the surface), but the Scout doesn't have the disadvantage of the committee member who "just never liked Billy, and now's my chance to get back at him."

 

I stand on all my other comments, including doing the process.

[dan 10]

Maybe

If he was convicted of a felony, what was his sentence. Did he complete the sentence?

How did he handle the questions about the felony during the BOR?

[jr56 92]

Ed, given the parameters you laid out, I would probably vote no.

[FScouter 24]

Ed's question here seems to be "does a conviction trump all other considerations gathered from a boy's Scouting history and insight gathered from a board of review." I think its ridiculous to base a decision solely on one piece of evidence, ignoring all else.

 

I like the idea of "doing the process", then makinga decision.

[evmori 11]

FScouter,

 

Are you saying a Scout with a recent felony conviction that relates to a pipe bomb he should be an Eagle Scout now? Remember, everything else is fine except the felony conviction.

 

dan,

What's the difference what his sentence is? A felony conviction is a felony conviction.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[dan 10]

evmori

My thought was if he was given community service to do, did he do it. Has he paid for his crime, if you will.

 

I went back and reread the original thread, I do agree with this scout not receiving his eagle at this time.

 

Because he has not finished his sentence which was

1 yr. with correct behavior and completing some counseling his record would be expunged.

 

But I would have given him his BOR and gave him all of the information on how to contest the denial.

 

I would have also told the SM to get a grip, you are out of the picture if the scout was at a BOR he had already done his SM conference and has been signed off of all requirements.

To egg this SM on I most likely would have asked him how this kid slipped by you.

I know I am a stinker.

 

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

As I have said, the Eagle Award has been cheapened. I can't believe we are discussing awarding Scouting's highest honor to a convicted felon, but are willing to turn our backs without question on kids who are undecided about their sexual orientation or faith in God.

 

Every rank has a requirement to "show Scout Spirit" in your daily life. How can anyone reconcile committing a felony with successfully meeting that requirement?

 

One more reason why I believe that allowing units to conduct their own EBOR is a mistake.

[John-in-KC 311]

scoutldr,

 

In the 97 years since Mr Boyce came back from his meeting with BP, I suspect the very situation we are discussing (less the cause of the conviction) has happened at least once.

 

Reality is, some Troop in some District in some Council probably either has dealt with this very issue in the past year.

 

That's one of the reason I asked for parameters. If the boy joined Scouting, or became active, after the event, and has turned his life around, then why not let him be a marked man? If, OTOH, something happened and he went sour weeks before his EBOR, then, well, there are consequences... and they are not pretty.

 

I suspect the newly convicted young man needs adult assocation and ideals even more to help him re-discover his anchor points and bearings in life. Whether or not he makes Eagle, to me, is rather secondary to that!

[hops_scout 9]

SSSCOUT..

About 4)..

 

It is difficult, but it is doable. I have decided not to finish my Eagle. I think the "busyiness" factor played in a little bit, but not the main reason for me to make that choice now.

 

I'm a 3 sport varsity athlete, Honor Roll student, and a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. Sure the Eagle Scout being on my resume would be useful, however, I pride myself in not doing things specifically for a reward or an award. At this point, I have come to the conlcusion that finishing the Eagle requirements would go against those values.

 

I know several of you Senior Forum memebers that have been around awhile (has it really been 4 years that I've been here?!?) will be disappointed to hear that decision, but it's one I decided I needed to make for multiple reasons.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I just wanted to make the point that I could tell you what it's like to be a "17 year-old Life Scout" at this point. For another 3 months.