desertrat77

Exactly! With the on-line stuff, you can put it on pause, and get something to eat/drink. And no one can hear/see your verbal/nonverbal responses.

Eagle, I'm happy that the effort to recognize above and beyond performance paid off! And I'm glad you are still amongst the living! Who should present? Perhaps the scout or scouter who taught him the necessary skills (ie MB counselor from camp)?

Thank you blw2! Now that I'm a civilian again, it's time to buy some new hiking boots. Uncle Sam's boots worked fine for military duty, but I'm ready for something different. And they are made in America.

I concur. Send them forth, and even if the results are not perfect, they'll learn from it all and enjoy the day. Parents following a patrol around? That's worse than "Webelos III"...sounds like Tiger Cub parenting.

Most Sailors I've talked to have never been impressed by the NWU (to put it lightly and in family-friendly phrasing). As a career Airman, I can say first hand that the ABU was zero improvement over the old BDU. It was discovered that the ABU fabric was dangerous on the battlefield or at the disaster scene (melting to skin, etc.) So another cotton version was introduced. I could go on and on, but suffice to say: When field uniforms are designed by higher headquarters types, most of whom were never in the field, nor have any intention of ever being in the field, nor desire/request any input from people in actually in the field, you get a uniform that just doesn't meet the needs of the people who wear it each day.

The site(s) work to National's complete satisfaction.

I sure took the bait, didn't I?

Gents, long story short...while Army and AF uniforms are sold at a PX/BX complex, the military clothing sales stores are actually under separate management. Defense Logistics Agency Troop Support is responsible the stuff that gets stocked in clothing sales. Not sure if MCSS/DLATS makes a profit. I rather doubt it. Issued/purchased uniforms: enlisted basic trainees are issued their initial set of uniforms. Thereafter, each service member is responsible for replacing anything no longer "clean, dry or serviceable." Enlisted get a small clothing allowance each year; officers pay for everything out of their own pocket, even when they join. The uniforms are made in America. There is just as much grousing about quality, fit and functionality about mil uniforms as there is about the BSA uniform here at this forum. Speaking only of the AF uniforms, the dress items don't fit well (even when tailored) and don't look that good either. Field uniforms are over-engineered (trying to be all things to all people, work in every environment = no one likes them and they don't work well anywhere...sound familiar?) Marines and Navy: not sure, but they may have a similar set up thru NEX. Coast Guard: really not sure about them either. (Added) PS Uniforms are issued if they are unique to a career field--flight suits, for example. Also, if you deploy to a place that requires a different uniform, those are issued to all.

Welcome, Brivan! Three of my best summers were spent on staff at Camp Gorsuch AK, late '70s. I served at the rifle range my first summer; waterfront the next; and my last summer was in the commissioners compound. Few amenities and facilities. Lots of mosquitoes and rain. However, the superb scout spirit, programming, unspoiled wilderness, and emphasis on the troops made each week a great one.

Former scout or not, today we have all volunteered to serve...I think this too transcends rank.

I'd say feet firmly on the ground, clear vision! Regardless of what rank any of us achieved as a scout, we were all scouts. We share common values and experiences. That is more important than any particular rank.

Spot on! Welcome back, Beavah.

Stosh, he had two palms? That explains it (reference our previous palm bashing threads)!

This sounds like the plan my SM followed back in the day. Long story short, after I did my stint as SPL (about 2.5 years) I was given a JASM patch. My attendance and input was requested and expected at troop committee meetings, district RT, etc. Camped/cooked with the adults. Mentor to the SPL. It helped me transition from the visible SPL role, so I didn't upstage the new guy. The adults treated me like a peer and expected me to conduct myself as such. Plus, it gave me more flexibility as school, sports and social life ramped up my senior year of HS.

Welcome to the forums! I'm not sure how our council does it, but our district orders patches prior to the event. It's a best guess, and yes there are leftovers. From a bean counting/managerial standpoint, it might seem wasteful. But you cannot put a price on the feeling that a scout has when they complete an activity (like a challenging camporee) and that patch is given to them after they break camp and police the area. If it has a loop, they will wear it immediately. What to do with leftovers? Give a few away to event organizers and financial backers (enclosing one in a thank you note is always appreciated). Sell the others for a discount at other events. A few other thoughts: not receiving the patch at the end of the event? Con: no guarantee the scout will ever get it once the district/council distribute them post-event. My first summer camp is the perfect example of that. The camp ended, no patches, and my SM never gave me one when he did receive them. It wasn't till 15 years later I stumbled across a ragged one in box of junk at a swap meet that I got that summer camp patch !? Also, if you want the patch to be valued, make it unique. Put the year, council/district, etc, on it. Councils get cheap and order a metric ton of ho-hum patches that they buy for a song and hand out for multiple events. Once a scout receives one or two of those, they don't give a rip thereafter. All that to say, I vividly recall my first several camporees, and at the end of each, my SM handing me the patch before we got into the station wagon to head home. Maybe I'm not stating it properly, but those were very satisfying moments, holding that cool patch in my grubby hand.

Welcome to the forum! I understand your concerns. But, depending on the troop, crossing early may be the very best thing. The Webs program is twice as long as it used to be. Kids get tired. Burned out and stalled out. Stuck in a rut. In the troop, new challenges, new faces...it could jump start your son's interest in scouting. Being treated like a boy scout instead of a cub scout--a big difference. Here's the key thing that jumps out at me: he wants to cross over with his pals. Could it be he has more confidence in himself, and is looking forward to the new adventure, more so than mom/dad? If so, then stifling his initiative by holding him back another year might hamper his interest in scouting as well as personal growth. Of course I'm sitting here typing this without all of the facts. But once upon a time I was a very shy 5th grader that crossed over from Webs to a scout troop, and it truly changed my life, for the better. It was a fresh start. Mom/dad/den leader weren't providing snacks...I was with my patrol, buying our food for the campout, as well as planning the menu and then cooking the food (for good or ill ). Going on hikes. Learning useful skills. I knew I was on the "big boy" plan when I crossed over, and I never looked back.

True, Eagle94, there are military folks that don't see their blind spot(s). The military sometimes overlooks a toxic leadership style or tic as long he/she gets the job done (despite the broken glass). The results are more striking in the civilian and civic world. Folks don't have to put up with it, and leave. Another mil analogy for your consideration: "Did you like it when the first sergeant or sergeant major was breathing down your neck, watching your every move, pouncing every time you screwed up?" Him: "Uh, no!" "You are doing the same ******* thing to the scouts--back off, get a cup of coffee, and let them figure things out on their own!"

Speaking of axe yards and adult-led troops...I've regaled everyone in years past about a certain year at camp where my PL was so disgusted by our meddling/donkey-like SM that he (my PL) ripped the PL patch off his uniform, walked into the axe yard with no permission, yanked the axe out of a scout's hands, and then proceeded to chop the PL patch with about a dozen wild swings. I don't know if he actually damaged the patch, but he seemed in better spirits when he was done. We scouts knew what was up and just let the storm pass. Adult leaders can sorely vex scouts, particularly if the scouts are trying to be mature and accomplish something.

"...with all due respect..." is a phrased I learned early in my military career. It's traditionally used as a preface when addressing a superior and you're about to inform him/her of something he/she probably doesn't want to hear (but must) or runs contrary to their particular position on a matter. Used correctly, no disrespect is conveyed. It's a handy verbal device to let everyone know a professional disagreement is about to commence, and the participants are cued as to their parts in the "kabuki dance." I realize the BSA is not the military, but I think the phrase is useful. A disagreement should not be personal, and if it is, nothing much good is going to come of it, even if the phrase is used.

Kool aide and root beer floats at summer camp aren't the problem. If the scouts are at camp, and half way involved in the program, they're burning plenty of calories. The real issue: what the scouts consume the rest of the year when they aren't camping. Weekend camp outs, summer camps provide the most balanced meals many scouts eat all year.

Sounds like a rip off. And a sure way to turn off/turn away people.

Truth.

Covered wagons with no airbags nor seat belts. Pioneers crossed rivers without PFDs. No weather app to determine if that cloud formation was potentially tornadic. No rest stops to buy bottled spring water. Unfiltered/untreated water, sipped from common-use canteens or dippers. How did they ever survive?

While the water gun/etc. ban is a small thing in and of itself, it is a symptom. If it was the only "aw shucks" committed by Irving, lately, it would be easy to brush it off. But it's not. It's one of several and they add up, impacting the image of the organization. On national news, the ban was presented as the "goofball/can you believe this stuff" story of the day, to round out a broadcast. Did anyone turn in their patch and walk out because of the ban? I doubt it. But it sure will influence folks. People already in the BSA will find a convenient point in time to call it quits. Not because of the ban, but the accumulation of similar decisions. People not in the BSA already have a public perception of the organization. Nervous Nelly decision making at Irving impacts the type of adult who wants to sign up. So I'm not viewing these bans as isolated incidents. There is a trend, and it does not bode well for the BSA's image. (Added) PS I've laughed off alot of wacky stuff by National since I signed up as a cub in the early '70s. I lived thru the Improved Scout Program of that decade, and served as a scouter throughout the years since (with several breaks in service). No higher headquarters is perfect, but I've never seen National in a more disconnected-from-reality state as I do now.

Krampus, an excellent question...given the number of poorly written rules, could you imagine how funny it would be if there was indeed a loophole?