desertrat77

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Our time on Earth is finite. It took me awhile, but I've finally learned to disengage from organizations that do not respect my time. Regardless of the reason for the last minute cancellation, their lack of follow up afterwards is a clue: they don't know what they are doing, and they don't care if you are inconvenienced. I too would resign and find something else to do.

I don't have a problem with "honorary" anything, so long as the honoree did something for the greater good of the community and/or scouting. On the other hand, I recall that Bill Gates received the Silver Buffalo several years ago. I'm still trying to figure out what he did to deserve it. Certainly nothing that improved the capabilities of the BSA IT department.

Well said!

@@Krampus, as I reflect on the past, I used to attend unofficial gatherings in the desert. Beer, steaks, cigars, large fires. And everyone attending was a registered adult in our troop. Another coincidence?

I think Krampus' analysis is correct. Also, though an internet forum is not multi-dimensional, I've always observed Howarthe's posts to be polite, professional, and informative. I trust her word as a scouter. @@Krampus -- Belgian beer? Something we can all agree on! I think RTs and other scouter-centric meetings would be far more conducive if a cooler of beer were available to all who wanted to partake. Not to turn the proceedings into a toga party, but good way to unwind at the end of a long day and perhaps promote conversation. Alas, the rules will not permit

Krampus, that is right on the money! The scouts are capable of maturity and good judgment, if they are just given the chance to show it. So true: camp is dangerous! Burns, cuts, critters, tripping on guy lines in the middle of the night. Plus bored scouts get into mischief and squabbles. Out in the field, on their own, they are on a mission.

Krampus, I had to ponder your question for a moment! Even though I was the greenest boy scout in the BSA at the moment, I viewed it as a tool. In the era before power edgers, many family in base housing used a machete to edge their sidewalks, etc. My dad used a machete for yard work, and I had been allowed to edge a couple times with it previous to the hike. Plus, riding in the big Plymouth around Panama, I had witnessed the Panamanians using the machete for all sorts of tasks. So when the SPL said "here" and gave me the machete, that was the beginning and end of the "safety and expectations" brief. There were two dynamics working that day. I had seen machetes in use for nearly four years and understood their use. And seeing how my fellow scouts were squared away, conducting themselves like scouts (without adults present before/during/after, except for dropping off/picking up), I wanted to be like them. If I screwed up, I knew there would have been no more machete and no more adventures. Even when my SPL called me over to a certain vine and pointed out a bamboo viper with the edge of his machete, I still didn't view it as a weapon. All the scouts knew the viper was there (except me) and they just left it alone. Sorry for rambling, but I guess my point is given the chance, scouts of today could do the same things. But from day one, they are handicapped by misinformation, fearfulness and a million rules. These are ingrained by the adults in their life. The scouts just don't get to experience life like they should in this era of safety-over-all/lawsuits.

Wow! To think that one week after I received my AOL, I went on a hike in the jungle with my new scout troop a) with no adult present that day, just the SPL/Star scout in charge, and b) I was given a machete to carry and use. Some how, we all conducted ourselves like scouts, no one was maimed or lost or traumatized. I'm continually amazed at adults that search for ways to inflict trouble, fear, threats, etc. upon well-meaning scouts and scouters. As Krampus said, they aren't reasonable people. They are just projecting their timidity/fear/etc. upon everyone else.

Matt, I think the seven virtues were made up by a well-meaning person. It seems once something finds its way into a script, it stays there for years to come, though the original intent and author are long gone. I agree with your approach of sticking to what we know, and what the boys can remember and use when they cross over to the troop. Best wishes!

Back in the olde fashioned days, I don't recall training for the WWII generation on "How to Deal with Boomers." If I'm wrong, please correct me. We boomers listened to the old timers, did it their way, and as time passed and experience grew, put our own spin on things. Without disrespecting the old timers nor abandoning the essentials of their message/process/system/values. The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced this training is a solution in search of a problem. And as the father of Millennial children, I fondly assert that the training is further proof of Millennial "Special Snowflake Status." :)

I agree Krampus. If I'm going to Philmont, the trail/trek is priority 1. Sitting in a conference room at Philmont seems cruel and unusual. So...500 bucks to learn about Millennials? Seems kind of steep. It occurs to me that the scouters of this forum already work with Millennials. And raise Millennial offspring. And are Millennials themselves. Perhaps we can pass along a few tips and save folks some money? Here are a few of my own: 1. Millennials tend to believe that if it can't be accessed on a smart phone, it doesn't exist. 2. Email is old fashioned and to be shunned. 3. Answering a phone call and talking to another human is old fashioned as well, and something to be avoided. So I'm kidding around...kind of...but seriously, is this training even necessary? Is the communication gap between the old timers and the new parents that large where a pricey training session is needed? PS I concur--make it free, put it on line, if it's truly that important. PSS The key is a) old timers learning to adapt to new ideas and practices (technology) and b) Millennials seeing the value of legacy ideas/systems (ie returning phone calls) and incorporating them into their business habits.

Truth!

Excellent point...I believe you are correct, National is probably tracking First Class closely. Let me append what I said earlier...I think National should promote and celebrate First Class attainment as a solid accomplishment. But they only seem interested to the point that it's some sort of magic barrier to break thru for retention. I'm with you--I think National's thought that FC/first year/stay longer is erroneous.

A worthy endeavor. And more meaningful than tracking just Eagle. Alas, I doubt the metrics folk at Irving would have any interest it. First Class is a practical rank and just not as shiny as Eagle.

I'd say in the past (pre-1972 Improved Scouting Program) those extra MBs might have made a difference (lifesaving required for Eagle, bird study, etc.). The Eagle project has turned into a bureaucratic goat rope. Today? Those extra steps to Eagle may only show perseverance. The tedium of the Citizenship MB trio, etc. The real benefit is the experienced gained as an SPL or PL as a Star/Life. But a scout doesn't need those PORs for Eagle any more.

That's right, Stosh. National's attitude is "Eagle or bust." Indeed, it would be better to emphasize the accomplishments of all scouts, regardless of rank. That sense of brotherhood would be much larger, and more beneficial, to scouting.

Mike, welcome to the forum! I'm no expert, but here is my unscientific observation from years of collecting: limited editions/special editions are valued locally, but not much outside the community. Example: I have a special-edition neckerchief a SM gave me as a gift for serving as his JASM in AK (many many years ago). It was from his previous troop in Ohio. I still have it and value it because of who gave it to me. Frankly, I've forgotten the details of why the troop issued it, or even what town it was from in Ohio. There are exceptions. I have some lodge flaps from AK that are worth a little bit. But troop-level items? They mean more to the people in the troop on the moment of presentation. And the folks that may follow. But I've been wrong before! I'll eagerly await the input from others. We're not shy around here! Best wishes, DR77

Now that you mention it, an ASPL was appointed (eventually). After I moved to JASM, the ASPL became the SPL and did in fact do a better job than me . This all happened after the old SM left and a new one took over, as well a few experienced scouts joining the troop.

LOL Stosh, good point. I'm reviewing my grey cells as we speak...as I recall, there wasn't another scout I could have picked to be ASPL. The PLs would have been good choices, but they were gainfully employed training their patrol members, most of whom were new scouts. Either way, I had to just gut it out.

Zuzy, everything I've read tells me your son has the right outlook. Stand back and let him lead. You're proud of him now--you'll be even prouder of him in the days ahead. He's learned a valuable lesson about difficult people. Many young men don't experience this till they are in college, or business, or the military. Your son will be miles ahead of his peers.

While I agree with Stosh's entire post, this part jumped out at me. A million years ago, when I became the SPL in a troop I had just joined, I worked for a very prickly SM who was critical of everything I did. A very difficult person to work with. I wanted to quit but didn't. After a year or so, the SM stepped down. However, I learned alot about myself, and though we didn't get along, I admit I learned from the difficult SM. I was a better SPL and scout for the experience. We didn't have an ASPL. It sure would have helped.

Zuzy, the key is this: how does your son feel about this? In the previous thread, I recall your son was doing his best to work with the SM and meeting the challenges head on. Does he still feel this way? Could it be that your son is handling this better than you and dad? I don't say that in judgment because I've been the same boat with my kids. But we have to step back and let the kids learn about life. No doubt the SM is a pain in the neck, it just sounds like he's running the troop different than you and your husband would. Frankly, this is starting to sound like a battle of personalities and personal pride, along with a touch of the Momma Bear syndrome. While poor communications, required busy work, and an abrasive personality make for an annoying SM, none of these are crimes. In scouting, we're teaching the scouts to become young men, so they are prepared for the years ahead--marriage, a profession, college, etc. We are doing them no favors by constantly sweeping their paths. My recommendation: no need to mention the medical condition. Unless there is a clear violation of BSA policy/procedure, Dad should cease fire with the SM. As tough as it may be, step aside and let your son succeed. On his own. He can do it.

I'm tracking re the girlfriend/date. Priority 1 at that age! In my case, I was in AK and though the camp was primitive, scouts and particularly OA members would show up to any event at camp, regardless of the weather or the work that awaited. It was truly a unique place, and the camaraderie was second to none.

LOL Krampus, swinging an axe/machete is still good medicine for me! PS. But I don't recall being so darn sore afterwards....