desertrat77

I agree, pompous and boring are the right words. My favorite type of ceremony: Eagle presented as part of a normally scheduled troop COH. It was cool to see the Tenderfoot scouts get their patches, then the Second Class, etc. One or two Life scouts. Then an Eagle. A few extra words by the narrator. Eagle medal presented, mom's pin. The SM says a few words about Johnny. Then Johnny has the floor to share his thoughts. The first two Eagles I saw awarded when I was a young scout were in this fashion, and they made quite an impact on me. The trail to Eagle was taking place right before my eyes, and the Eagle was still among us newly awarded/lowly Tenderfoot scouts at the ceremony. Looking back, the simplicity of it all was remarkable when compared to the extravaganzas that we typically see today. I've heard of scouts having their Eagle presented at a closing campfire during a troop campout. A fire crackling in the background, the scent of wood smoke. Mom and dad and others are present for the ceremony. Low key but dignified. Ancient past: Usually, there was only one congratulations letter, the one from National. No binders full of certificates and memos extracted from dignitaries and celebrities. Call me a curmudgeon, but if the Eagle didn't know the letter writer, the meaning is rather diminished. I don't think there is a need for the over-the-top Eagle ceremonies. The award speaks for itself.

Eagle94, My Star Wars knowledge begins and ends with the first movie in '77...I saw it with my Philmont contingent in Albuquerque the night before we arrived at the Ranch. I saw the second one (once) and part of the third. Then I thought "That's it for this story, what else could they come up with?" :) You are fighting the good fight, and doing so while taking the high road. Reading your posts throughout the years here at the forum, that is your method and it speaks volumes. There is a code name for that quality, and Eeyore is definitely not it! Re Gunship--some leaders are just toxic, as you know. Doesn't matter how many leadership seminars they've sat through, they won't change and the only thing we can do is just work around them, or depart. We may have to grit our teeth and endure when the toxicity is at work or with family, but not in civic affairs. We definitely have more flexibility to move on to greener pastures. The Gunships of scouting can grind us down to the point where we want to quit entirely.

Sentinel, well said. Cult, sainthood...accurate descriptions. I'll add another: coronation. That's what some Eagle courts of honor seem like. The hype associated with Eagle can be counterproductive. It may intimidate scouts (I could never attain the rank) or disgust them (I'd never want to be associated with that rank). Some folks forget that the Eagles, and candidates, are still young men. The bar should be high, but sometimes it seems too high. People expect a level of competence and maturity from the young Eagles may be unrealistic. The rank should be tough to earn. But let's not turn it into some impossible quest. Some Eagles are squared away from day 1 and live up to the ideals, others earn it but have to grow into the rank a bit. After all, they are only human.

Krampus, here's a start: "Crusher" "Eeyore" "Mr. Beads" "Peacock" "Hand-Wringer" "Basil Fawlty" (as a SM no less)

Folks will wear the neckerchief if it looks good and is useful. The official BSA neckerchiefs are neither. Strictly decoration. Find an old one, full square, from yesteryear. Cotton, cool, and large enough to use for all kinds of stuff. Make your own version. And let's not get hung up on the rolled tight/pig tail/parade ground effect. Just put it around your neck, slide the slide, and let's hit the trail.

If anyone engaged in any outright criticism of some palm earners, it was me. From my viewpoint, the super-palm earners tend to be focused on the bling collection moreso than the knowledge gained along the way. However, if that is their quest, more power to them and I'll keep my peace. It doesn't matter whether they earned Eagle at 14 and had time to earn a dozen palms. Or they passed their board of review at the Eleventh Hour. They are Eagles, and if there is any difference between them individually, it will be determined by those who live around them--at home, in their communities, places of worship, professions/trades.

Barry, you certainly are not the only one, you are in good company....

Indeed, those palm collectors tend to focus on quantity of accomplishment, rather than quality thereof. An Eagle with 21 legitimately earned MBs, and has a good working knowledge of all 21, is going to be miles ahead of the Eagle who rushes through 51. Just a thought.

That's the nut of the matter right there, Stosh: the folks at National who make these decisions can't see it because they are utterly disconnected from "fun." If they were scouts, they probably weren't the ones who enjoyed water gun/balloon fights, building/climbing giant signal towers, running around the woods, etc. Now they are in charge and they can project their dislikes onto everyone else. And as always, the almighty dollar is probably the root cause. Possible lawsuits lead to attorneys' fees. And attorneys' fees means less money to spend on the Air Conditioned Training Palace and pay raises for professionals.

When I was a youth, the JASM role was one of my most formative. As a graduated SPL, the adult scouters took me in as an apprentice and not only taught me their duties (committee, SM, ASM) but they also gave me adult tasks to complete. I was treated like an adult and was expected to conduct myself as such. Invaluable lessons not only in scouting, but also in that transition from kid to adult.

Right! I'm not sure when the idea came about that the district was some special organization that deserved care/feeding by the units, particularly with manpower. But that notion is backwards. Districts can be very lean and still support the units. Unit commissioner: I was one several times, five different councils/districts. Due to military moves, and duty commitments, it gave me some flexibility that I sorely needed. Nonetheless, for whatever good I may have done as a UC, scouting would have been better served had I just signed on as a troop committee member or ASM. Now and again, the UC thing worked, and I was able to help the units "as advertised." Once some of the scouters got to know me, they freely admitted how much they loathed UCs and district types in general (yes that's a strong word but others used stronger ). And these weren't the straight-from-central-casting malcontents, but squared away leaders of thriving troops. Other scouters never trusted me. Such is life. The UC concept is very grand on paper, but reality is usually a different story.

+1 for JASM and +1 for Venture Crew

Joined the Air Force and went to night school at local colleges, BC (Before Computers). Started at a community college. Kept at it--field exercises, two year-long overseas assignments, and two deployments. Took 12 years but completed a master's degree with no debt. Strange to say, but I'm just as proud of my associate's degree from the community college. The military paid 75 percent of the tuition for almost all of the classes (at the time, I didn't have the GI Bill because I enlisted between the old and the new). I paid for books. I will always be grateful to the taxpayers of America for the tuition assistance. I concur with the previous comments--most young people today would be far better off getting a two-year technical degree, or become licensed in a trade. I've witnessed the condescending attitudes towards the trades, even in my own family. "You want me to go to community college? Or the tech center? Ewww!" They'd rather have their BA/BS and be unemployed/underemployed, AND chained with long-term debt than become a welder or a nurse. Signs and wonders. If young people want free or subsidized education, they should do something to earn it. Military, Peace Corps, whathaveyou. Too bad we don't have the WPA or CCC anymore. Serve a hitch and receive some college benefits. A sign of the times: a local man ran a shoe and boot repair business. He was in the Army during the Korean War, and when his hitch was up, the government paid for him to learn the trade. His shop was open for almost 50 years. He wasn't rich, but he made a living and was good at his craft. He was getting on in years, and looking to retire. He publicly offered to teach a young person the trade, and then GIVE him/her the shop, no strings attached. After a few years of no one taking his offer, he sold out and retired.

I read the article's ending as "as a last resort, when you can't out run the fire and you have no other options, do this:...." Ideally, there will be four folks with four shovels and a bunch of energy. In reality, by the point you have to resort to digging a fire line, everyone is probably already drained physically, one or two folks lost in the confusion, one or two stunned into inaction or in a panic. To me the best option would be to find that ditch or gully, hunker down and hope the fire skips me. An eye opening experience lately at my friend's ranch. We were performing a controlled burn on his property that got a little out of hand. No wind, beautiful day, and the fire moved further and quicker than we anticipated. I was working the shovel as fast as I could, on short grass and dirt, and was barely putting a stop to anything. My friend had his tractor/disk harrow on hand, and spent a good while encircling the fire, making a break. Even afterwards, we were putting out hot spots that had jumped the break. It took about three hours, and all was well. But it was a good dose of reality for me...once a fire gets big enough, there's no stopping it.

Glad you are back!

I guess we were high-rollers in AK! '78 - 25 dollars a week '79 - 35 dollars a week '80 - 45 dollars a week Pay increases based on seniority/returning staff.

Would you reconsider if there was an event that had all of these elements, all at once? Including 25' signal towers? See you there!

I concur...though good for a chuckle here at the forums, it would be tough to sell it as an official trip. Darn shame, because the science angle is quite interesting. Enjoy the retreat! I'm certain that helpful beverages will be in good supply.

I was fairly certain you were serious....

Stosh, if word gets around that a kid can earn a Maggot badge, that just might boost recruitment...

It's still hush/hush, but the BSA is making a new branch of Cub Scouting...birth to Lion Cub age. Name to be determined.

Yes and yes! Now that is STEM that folks will support!

Krampus, Could you imagine the money to be made on summer camp beer sales, in the scouters' lounge? Local councils partner with microbreweries? Forget FOS, there's gold in them beverages! And forget popcorn sales too. The stock not sold? Not even as a snack.

So I took the time to review it and here's what I saw: "Energy drinks are to be discouraged at Scouting events and should not be sold at BSA trading posts or other retail venues." "Should not" is different from "shall not" and "will not." I see the drafter of the aforementioned document was astute. The BSA frowns on the drinks, but not enough to actually ban them. Too bad National didn't use such phraseology with the bubble ball/water gun cases.

It is a nice loophole. It gives the BSA the appearance of being concerned about the youth's health, but still allows trading posts to sell the heck of the energy drinks. Profit.