walk in the woods

@Pselb, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the volunteer/parent issue. It's refreshing to hear honest feedback rather than the normal excuses I think many scouters are used to hearing. It should cause us to reflect a bit that maybe the problem BSA units face isn't a lack of volunteers so much as an overwhelming bureaucracy that requires 20 registered leaders, three lawyers, and an accountant, to run a pack of 30 boys (or youth).

The early adopter program was only k-4 grade girls. Not that there couldn't be a 10-year old 4th grader but I think the BSAs intent was to exclude the issue you raise.

Lots of things one might question beyond the product the business sells: - The young lady is being used, in uniform, in a business advertisement - In said advertisement she's wearing the business's ball cap - Said business, at least according to one of the articles, uses the Girl Scout name to sell their product (https://buenos.urbnleaf.com/?product=platinum-cookies) - Shop owners said she was just "passing by" and they posted to support the cause, but, the post included the name of their business and her in the cap. Disingenuous at best.... Also said to have posted a picture of boxes of cookies along side their own products implying a relationship. I guess GSUSA has to decide if they are good with all that. It does go in some interesting directions though. So as to NJCubScouter's question, it seems to be the equivalent of say my local convenience store taking a picture of Cub Scouts, wearing the store's logo hats, showing popcorn arrayed along with the alcohol and cigar display, to use on their social media advertising campaign. Just trying to help out a cause. "Stop for some popcorn and pick up your game day needs!"

That just makes you old and irrelevant :). We have cookies and warm milk!

This is the reality and pain of collectivism. Doesn't matter if it's a church, community, political party, government, corporation, or charitable organization. Believe and repeat the narrative or face shaming. If that doesn't work you will be banished. Religions have worked this way forever, secular society is quickly catching up.

This comment reminds me of my institution's Title IX training. About midway through this year's installment there was information given that the "oppressive nature" of evidence gathering in a court of actual law can be avoided through the Title IX process. Where a bureaucrat is investigator, jury and judge. Oh, and the accuser can remain anonymous, need not be the victim, no right to cross examination, no right to discovery, etc. The MeToo movement is the logical successor to the dear colleague letter and is in danger of hurting itself in the same way. Yeah, I generally avoid closed-door one-on-one meetings with female colleagues, I certainly avoid getting on a elevator with female students where I might end up alone. I don't go to office mixers to the extent they still exist. Earlier in the thread someone posted that only 2% of cases were false accusations. That failure rate would be the equivalent of 1700 air liners falling out of the sky every day or your car being in the shop a full week every year. No thanks. The impact to career and livelihood is simply too great to take a 2% chance.

The answer to each of your reasons is true and false depending on your perspective. From my perspective (rural middle of the country) will be different than suburban, urban, exurban, coastal, intermountain west, etc. @LatinScot, all you said is true, and none of it requires the corporation that is the BSA.

Probably should have dropped this in the adult leader training topic. Feel free to move, fold, spindle, mutilate, etc.

This afternoon I've received an email from my DC, which came from the Council Commissioner, etc. about the launch of the new YPT. This blurb was in the FAQ Attachment By October 1, 2018, all new and currently registered leaders will be required to complete the updated training. The enhanced and updated content will allow leaders and councils to comply with all current legal requirements. While this may be inconvenient for some, it reflects the BSA’s commitment to the safety of all youth. I haven't logged in yet to see if it's available.

7P

Make sure your wording is clear and you don't get a squirrel cook-off in iron :). It's takes a lot of stew to cover the taste of squirrel. Just sayin.

The district contains Iowa City and the U of I. It's a blue district. It will be interesting to see if Mr. Wahl's can consolidate the young vote. One of the linked articles mentioned the only other declared candidate is a career diplomat (http://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2017/12/21/zach-wahls-announces-bid-dvorskys-iowa-senate-seat/973866001/).

Maybe the most important thing said on this forum in a while......

I wouldn't because a TLUSA member or his parents made a choice between competing organizations. However, that wasn't how I understood Hawkin's argument. I understood him to say that Ms. Ireland did the work with Scouts Canada because she wanted to be a scout and it was the only (or one of a limited number of) option open to her. As such, her work there should be transferred to the BSA now that we are an option for her (almost). NJ posited a girl TX didn't have the same benefit to which I added the BPSA wrinkle. I'm just trying to understand Hawkin's argument a bit more. Is it "doing the work" or "doing the work in a WOSM affiliated organization?" If it's the former then NJ/my hypothetical girl in TX could make the same claim.

Or was a member of the BPSA? Not WOSM affiliated but why should that matter if she's done the work?

Well, according to this government agency, https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp, the number of scout-age children has been relatively constant since 1972 so the comparison to the general population doesn't hold. To be fair, having membership drop by 50% with a constant membership base potential isn't good but suggesting it should have doubled is unrealistic. Change is hard but maybe the hardest part is getting the supporters of change to pick up the slack. If there is indeed a groundswell of support for this change, then there should also be a groundswell of new volunteers to take over for those that choose to move on, no? It's always curious to me why folks who push, accept or agree with a change seem to always feel a need to denigrate the people who disagree with them. My old grandmother used to say "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Just saying if you really believe it's a shame some folks are leaving, then why wouldn't you want to try to educate them rather than insult them?

That's not what I heard. The speaker said there must be male and female leaders on every Cub Scout outing, unless, the outing is all boys or all girls. Then, the leadership may be all of the same gender. New_Bitmap_Image.bmp

I've recently completed my institution's required Title IX indoctraining so I'm perhaps a bit hypersensitive to the ever shifting definitions of proof, evidence, due process, and "normal human interaction."

That's not the problem scenario. The problem is when the scout feels compelled to shake your hand because you offered yours, does so, then the scout (or the parents or a concerned onlooker) decides later that you offering your hand created a hostile environment. @David CO used the pendulum analogy. We're a long way from a moderating center position.

That depends. If the scout feels compelled to shake your hand, and that in turn makes him/her uncomfortable, then yes you could be in trouble.

For 2018, maybe. The Q&A at https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program specifically says they are making their payment to BSA for 2018, so no financial hit this year and older boys get the change to Eagle. The article at the link also says that scouting meets the needs of boys 8 to 13, multiple times.

Theoretically, that's the purpose of the UC tools and ratings on every visit. Check the boxes on JTE but evaluate effectiveness by UC visits. Yeah, I know, UCs aren't really UCs as long as they are pushing FOS and popcorn, and it assumes some experience, but, I did said theoretically at the beginning :).

I think sometimes what gets lost in the discussion is tangibles vs. intangibles. So lived experience, I was a child of the 70s. My Jr. year in HS our PhysEd classes went co-ed. Everybody said, nothing is going to change, girls can do whatever boys do, it'll be fine. But guess what, things changed. Our flag football experience when from a semi-contact sport to a completely non-contact sport. In fact, contact with girls was a special penalty. We quit playing things like gym hockey and dodgeball and any other activity where strength was a factor. We were forced to endure square dancing. So, the "program" didn't change (we still went to PE everyday and did the same-ish activities) but the intangibles surely did change. Everything was toned down. Second-hand experience, I was in the Navy. I got out before the Navy took surface combatants co-ed. I'm told by some friends who made the Navy a career that many things have been modified as a result of going co-ed. All the members of a work center no longer share berthing areas so the social aspect of downtime was impacted. Certainly the crossing the line ceremony changed. So, the Navy still goes to sea, flies jets, blows stuff up, that didn't change, but the intangibles surely did change. Many folks argued in both situations that the changes were for the better, maybe they were, maybe not. But nobody argues that things didn't change because they certainly did in both cases. This, I believe, will be the case with the BSA. The program might be exactly the same (it won't) and the intangibles will certainly change. BackPack hit on a a selection of the issues. Some will argue the changes are for the better, some will disagree. In the end boys will have the shorter end of the stick.

All Scouting is Local.....

I think you have to add the course to your training plan if it's not for a registered position. When I log into the training site there's a warning about the percentages being wrong. I also go fooled on at least one course because I missed the "click to load more modules" link at the bottom of the page.