dan

Well ya see here sonny back in my day, we use to have to carry a 10 pound book with us where ever we went! I remember carry that 15 pound book up to the top of ol smokey! Now all you younguns have to do is carry that little 4oz piece of wizardy! Oh and by the way I liked the old books better than these new watered down electronic versions. There was a lot more info in those old books! You younguns just do not know how good yall got it! Now do not get me started on these new 1" x 1" sleeping bags that wear nothing, why back in my day ...................

Where I be from you must be 21 to sell alcohol and 18 to sell cigarettes. While I do not like the fact that the little girl was scanning cigarettes, she probably did not break any rules, because she did not "sell" them. I have had cashier ring up the dollar amount for some liquid refreshment and she had me push the button to ring the sale up, because they where not old enough. This was in a grocery store.

http://www.scouter.com/compass/Meeting_Activities/Ceremonies/Opening___Closing/ http://www.wtrfrd.com/pack339/339cere.htm Try these, and have fun!

Responsible To Assistant senior patrol Leader Specific Duties Gather pictures and facts about past activities of the troop and keep them in scrapbooks, wall displays, or information files. Take care of troop trophies and keepsakes. Keep information about troop alumni. Set a good example. Wear the Scout uniform correctly. Live be the Scout Oath and Law Show and help develops Scout Spirit. From the Scoutmsters Junior Leader Training Kit.

you even argued with Ed Mori about it That really narrows it down. NOT.

Gee, my thoughts seemed so good until I read the one by Dsteele. Are you suggesting that this should be handled by the boys! What an idea! Follow the chain of command (proably not the correct term)and you have a better chance of improving the troop! Please, keep us informed.

FloridaScout Hi and Welcome Where is the Scoutmaster in all of this? Can you or your patrol talk to the Scoutmaster about these issues? If you can, keep the talk positive. Do not talk about the SPL and older boys being idiots. Talk about how you would like to see the troop improved or changed. Be prepared for this meeting, you handbook has many good ideas in it. How long have you been in the troop? AS for the second hand information you have heard about the ASM, ignore it! This may or may not have been said. And sometimes we adults say things without thinking, but we also get frustrated sometimes also. He may turn out to be your biggest ally, he could be frustrated with the troop for the same reason you are. How long has this SPL been in office?

DINKS Double Income No Kids. Dsteele not saying that you are a dink! Not even sure if your wife works! Not sure if a Scouters salary would be considered income!

Po Boy sandwich covered in Garlic Butter! I just was not ready for this thread to fade away! Now the issue about cooking sherry on campouts. The issue would be the leaders that see it and say, oh it okay to bring alcohol on campouts, so at the next campout they bring their beer or spirits. This is probably how doing merit badges as a troop got started.

Yall should have seen what I wrote the 1st time and decided that it sounded too much like fog to post it! So I take it yall do not think his is intelligent? Ed Here are a few quotes from your friend fog. I think that the current handbook sucks. I even think that many BSA policies suck As for antagonizing people, I only intentionally do that to close minded, pompous book thumpers or those who can't communicate in standard English and blame me for not understanding them. However, when a 15 year old boy has bigger boobs than a Playboy Playmate and can't walk a mile without collapsing, he is dangerously out of shape. You 2 are alot alike! Trailpounder Look at this thread and then comment http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=32869#id_33240 fog that be their a really goody one, ya shure got me on that there one.(This message has been edited by dan)

mk9750 Give it time, he will show his true colors again. He seems to me, to be a very intellegent bitter man.

Large campsites broken up into patrol campsites, at least 8 patrol campsites, with a fire ring in the center of the campsite. At least a 1/4 mile walk to get to the campsite. Clean Kybos, good water to drink and close. No trains close, seems that all scout camps around this area has a train track that runs right next to it!

Wallace Would you like to explain the "good one" to me?

If a scout has been coached, supported, directed for 3 to 4 months and he is still not doing his "job" I think you should remove him from the POR. If he was allowed to complete the term without doing anything he still did the job. If I worked for 6 months, my employer decided to remove me from my job, I would not have to give my pay back. Or would that be payback.

ksane IMHO at this point you need to stop worrying about the leaders or parents that sneak off and smoke, and do something about the ones that are smoking in cars with boys in them!

If he was not removed from the POR. I say yes.

Its a good idea BUT I get out my trusty whiteboard I never censor others tell me to erase but I ask them to go beyond Every year I ask the PLC All of the above should be done by the SPL or a scout not a adult leader. The only thing that a adult leader should be doing is this one I remind them Where is the boy lead in the above statments. Or the above actions. I have yet to see a boy run troop yet, I have proably viewed around 50 over the last 3 years, and it is the adults doing most of the directing. BIG SIGH

sigh

I took it to mean that its all the moms fault. The ones that stay home to run the kids here and there. And they most likly work harder than some "working moms" And its never the Dads fault. So at the point I quit reading his post.

You may want to check this thread out, it has some info that may enlighten you. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=19966#id_21677

It seems to me that this all boils down to leaders not allowing the scouts to be late and facing the reactions from those actions. What would happen if no one told the patrol to get the gear and set it up? They would be scrambling around at midnight trying to get the tents setup. And than getting up too late to make breakfast and be able to make the scheduled event. Of course this means the troop would have to have scheduled fun/exciting events planned so that the scouts feel that they missed out on something, while the other patrols where doing the activity the patrol that did not get up on time would be cooking and cleaning. I see very few scouters that would let this happen. It sounds like sometimes you should just let them miss these events. Or run their underwear up a flagpole or make them sing for being late. The SPL should delegate the authority to the PL and or QM. Empowerment is a very powerful tool.

Okay I just read the GTSS, and it states that no physical hazing is allowed. So now you need to decide what physical means along with hazing. Now for the snipes hunt (you guys are getting as bad as meryln about ignoring questions) If you send a boy out into the woods alone how do you later make him follow the buddy system? (Okay for those of you who do not know what this is, it is in the Boy Scout Handbook) Now for the underwear up the pole, how in the world would a scout get another scouts underwear? For those of you who make a scout sing for lost items, do you explain to him up front that he does not have to do this? This is the only way you will know for sure if the scout is okay with this, unless you are mind readers. And I can just about envision the reactions of some of the scouters on this board if a scout every told them no. I suppose that you think singing for a lost item will build Character, I guess I agree with this, just not sure I like the kind of Character it will build! MK9750 you say that scouts know where to draw the line, I really think you are mistaken on this. Look at the post by the scout that was doing a snipe hunt and the other boys decided he needed to be duct tape to a tree. Setting the example A Scout is ... kind

Why would you have to have a family campout for any parent to come to a campout? Any parent should be informed that they could come along to any event they wish. The PLC cannot decide what adults come to a campout. Why not tell all parents that they are welcome to come to any campout at anytime? What kind of scout skills would be worked on at a family campout? Set up correctly a "family campout" could work, but it should be setup that the scouts still use the patrol method.

Had a first year scout at last month's campout that did not want to participate in skits. I explained to him that we (we would be SM, ASM, SPL, ASPL, PL) could not make him do anything he did not want to do, unless it was a safety issue. I hope I helped this scout stay in scouting (he is shy, I hope scouting will help him become a leader) sounds like I should have sent him after some snipe instead. I really believe that the BSA needs to put this in the front of the handbook, big bold letters. AS A SCOUT I CONTROL MY OWN DESTINY, I WILL MAKE MY OWN DECSIONS AND I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING THAT MAKES ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE. Could you imagine some of these leaders having fits when a scout looks at them and saying. I am sorry sir but I do not feel comfortable doing that. How do you get the scouts to follow the buddy system after having a scout sit in the woods alone? How do you explain to them its okay not to follow the buddy system sometimes?

Scoutmaster Ron You wrote ...has provided no leadership in any of the positions he is in I think you meant have been in? If this scout has had leadership positions and was not removed from the position for lack of leadership. You would be wrong in questioning this after the fact. He served in the position and earned it. The troop allowed him to "skate" that is not his fault but the troops. Please tell us, if he has had a leadership position, or is in a leadership position. If he has one now, it is not to late for the SM to take him aside and explain what is expected of him to complete this requirement.