dan

Another thing to consider is to keep buying the same kind of tent year after year, this way when you "retire a tent" you can save the good parts poles, rain flys and so on. These can be used to fix other tents needing replacment parts.

Build a wash bucket, tripod with a bucket with a hole in the bottom, with a piece of wood like a golf tee to turn off and on. (there is a name for this piece of wood but I forget what it is called) Hang a bar of soap in an old nylon off of the tripod. or just have a tripod with a bucket buy a couple cheap plastic measuring cups, drill hole in the bottom of it. Dip cup in bucket hang over the side of bucket from the handle on the cup and wash hands in little stream of water. Hat rack, coat rack. Now the best way to do this is to nudge them along, while standing by wash basin, say It sure would be great to have a place to hang our hat or coat while wahing up here. Let them decide what to build, even if it does not come out like you expect. If they come up with the ideas it will mean so much more to them, than an adult telling them to build this or that. Have fun at camp!

Eamonn wrote I do think that it is strange that we can get so many postings on Gays and Uniforms, and yet so few on Working with Kids!! This does not surprise me. Working with Kids is easy and fun, its us adults that mess it up!

Ed I have decided from your post in this thread and from other posts, that you do not post what you feel and you just like to stir the pot. I believe that if you are willing to put it in writting you should believe it. There are enough myths around without someone adding to them. With that I bid you well in Scouting. dan

We are using Voyageur Canoe Outfitters out of Grand Marais, MN. For anyone not familiar with Quetico it is just North of the BWCA. The troop picked this area because it is a little more remote (if that's possible) than the BWCA. There are 2 crews going one is with the older scouts 15 to 17 years old, 6 scouts and 3 adults. The group I am going with there are 4-13 years old and one 15 year old and 2 adults. We had a shakedown last night and everyone is pumped up! When you are going on a High Adventure trip, does the crew pick PL APL for the week? These scouts are from 2 different patrols. Or do you usually just go as a team? Two other crews are leaving for Isle Royal on Friday of this week also, last Monday we had to split up the troop gear, had to run out and get another stove and fuel bottles.

littlebillie you wrote The gay and atheist issues are probably the only REAL controversies the BSA faces. I totally disagree with this statement. I really believe the biggest issue with the BSA right now is, leaders not following the BSA program. I am talking about AIMS and Methods of the BSA. They are either ignoring them or only using certain ones, because MOST adults either do not understand them or agree with them. I believe that the BSA need to redo all of its training and get it back to the basics, and drill this into the leaders. Forget about tying knots and cooking at training, sit down and tell them how they will run there unit. The BSA must get all councils on the same page for training, somehow. danny

Yeah hey there, i dont rite to well, but it the bestest i can doit! Ed Thanks for your opinions on gays and athesist, good to know that it means nothing. Its only an opinion, right? FOG I never said Fog = Zorn or yaworski = Zorn, that is news to me. FOG wrote Dan made a snide comment because I couldn't understand what he wrote Uh no, me not think so, I made a snide comment that you couldnt understand, so than you said I not have good grammer. What a good answer! Thanks for that! Fog asked where he said scouting sucks, well right here, I think that the quality of the uniform sucks. I think that the current handbook sucks. I even think that many BSA policies suck. Now , I have to go over to the other board, it seems to me that Al Lundy on the other board was a supporter of scouting and not tearing it down or bashing people, its hard for me to beleive that they are the same person, if true I guess hiding behind a fake name makes him feel like he can attack people and not be held accountably. Yes, I know I have bad grammer, lets try a new verse!

I was referring to yaworski, getting confusing FOG?

Ed How in the world did you bring this around to gays and atheists?? Since you asked, I think gays in the BSA are fine as long at they are not avowed. Atheists are fine also if they believe in God. It does not take stones to make a man. Yes, we all post unscout like things from time to time, not 85% of our posts, Oh yes I went back and counted them! So, I take it he is a good friend of yours and you agree with what he says? Another scouter (wait a minute if memory serves me correctly he was (is) not a scouter) in it for themselves and not the scouts, surprise, surprise. I do not believe that he was honest. He changed his tune too many times just to stir the pot. In a very unlike scout manner. Your question about making a judgment from what is written in this board has me baffled, are you saying that I should not take what is written on this board to mean anything, that it is only people trying to make themselves heard and having fun and nothing else? What did you find vulgar? Sucks? That's not a bad word. Hell, neither is that one. Or is it that I am seeing that you are not a very good scouter! How's that for stones?

Ed You may need to take a nap and then reread a few of the posts! And if you believed how yaworski behaved was acceptable, I feel sorry for you and you scouts! You need to find the post from the administrator and read it, and than tell me what part yaworski did was scoutlike. And FOG is acting just like yaworksi did, stuff like all person with AIDS should be sepearted from everyone else. And he countines to sort of say that scouting sucks. this board permits our opinions, done in a scoutlike manner! But opinions do not make it correct either! I take it yaworski is friend of yours, maybe you need to pick your friends better! He sure in the hell was not an upstanding scouter, same as with FOG.

Scoutdad2001 Welcome and enjoy summer camp. Hopefully you will recieve an email from the one that knows, soon,

My son is a summer camp now, will be coming home tommorow, his faovrite so far has a been a big hug, from mom, younger sister, and dad if dad did not go. This is his third year at summer camp, and I am pretty sure the hug will still be in order, becuase 3 weeks ago he did it after JLTC, and 2 weeks ago after church camp. And than we ask him how it went and he tells us how it went, this is usually an hour long discussion! Of course after the 1st 20 minutes, he's done talking and the rest is mom and I asking questions about merit badges, food, weather, bugs, KYBOS, etc.

NJCubScouter Were have you been young man! Welcome back. Sorry to hijack you thread dsteele! Sorry Illinois is to far to Philadelphia! But have a good time.

For the new posters here, and fog, even though I think he may have more than seen this before. Look at this link it may answer some of you questions. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=15475#id_15475 There was one more thread along this same vein, but I could not find it. Bob, I understand why you left, I hope you time away is short.

I have been looking for an good small (when stowed)light sleeping bag. I found a Lafuma bag at Gaylans tonight. It was 50 dollars, and weighs 50oz. I am 6'4" and I fit in it but just barely. It is rated at 23 degrees f. And if you show your scouting membership card you will get a 10 percent discount. Now if someone knows anything bad about lafuma please let me know. If you are looking you may want to check it out.

GTSS

I read On My Honor last year. Thought it was proably pretty acturate, with what goes on behind the leaders back. I will have to say that they had a pretty stong troop to put on a summer camp like they did! It did remind me of my days as a scout many years ago, way before GTSS!

Could you make him a Troop Guide and work with the younger scouts? I know he said he did not like teaching, but try to sell this as leading and not teaching. Sometimes boys say things they do not mean. Explain that he needs to set the example for the younger scouts, with how he looks, how well he knows the scout skills. Assign an ASM to help him, teach to lead. Troop Guide is the one position the SM has a say in.

Ok, I have just read the whole thread again, and what fun that was, if a scout or scouter is going to Summer Camp and he brings in the Personal Health and Medical form, and it is sealed in an enevolpe and I cannnot see the date on it, I have to take it to camp along with the scout to have the nurse at camp look at it to see if it is up to date, meaning dated within the last 3 years or 1 year if a scouter is over 40? How would this work for High Adventures where there is no "nurse"?

A good patrol is a gang of good FRIENDS, standing together shoulder to to shoulder whatever comes. All for one-one for all'-that's the spirit of a a Scout Patrol. From the Scout Handbook, 1950 and 1998. Scouting is a game with a purpose. FUN is the GAME. VALUES are the PURPOSE. LEARNING is the PROCESS. The SM Handbook 1998.

How would you use, single age patrols or mixed aged patrols? It is my understanding that the patrol decides who can join the patrol. As the patrol gets older, the patrol may decide to ask a boy from another patrol to join or the boy may ask to join, because the patrol is more suited to him. This could be an older or younger scout. I see it as starting out pretty much as a single age patrol, new scouts, but then over time the patrol should grow or shrink as they want to. How in the world would the PLC decide to put who in what patrol? Straws, friends? enemys? When new scouts come in my sons troop, the patrols are picked by the SM and SPL, mostly this is by which pack they came from, they try to keep the scouts together that know each other, sometimes 2 dens from different packs will become one patrol, but they are allowed to move to another patrol, if the other patrol wants them. So, Bob White, I need to ask is this following the program? Or are we missing something?

Last week at JLTC I was talking to two other staff members, and beleive it or not this topic came up! Scag is considered to be the best mower out there, by some people. The SM of the South troop just got one this spring, and he loves it. It use to take him 3 to 4 hours to mow his yard, he has it down to 1 hour, he says. The course director says that if it takes you over a hour a a half to mow your yard you need a bigger/better lawn mower. The course director use to work in landscaping and he said that Scag is avery good mower. Did I do a good job, relating this back to scouting? Did I mention that we spent all day Thursday, Friday, and half of a day Saturday mowing to get ready for the conference?

AAAWWWWWWWWWW FUDGE

WOW, if you do not like it I will leave!?!? Is this the same way he is with the boys? Sounds to me like it would be good if he left, his way or the highway. Does he do this without discsussion about it, or even looking at the rules?

A question was asked why would you turn away a leader? A few reasons I can think of. They do not understand the program and are unwilling to change. They think they are the leaders. Advancement over the program (paper eagle) Or in short.. They do not follow the program. If you are a Scoutmaster there is one way that you can limit problem leaders by not allowing them to sign off of requirments. This should send a strong clear message to that leader to change.