dan

My Bad Chip not Chit! Totin Chip Fireman Chit Right?

packsaddle I did not take it that those 3 messages where intended for Swordse? I took it as a little joke to "lighten" up the tone of the discussion. Now the question becomes, did I not read enough into the messages?

COBRASPL I am assuming you are the SPL for the troop? Why the Cobra? How many scouts do you have in your troop? Now that the assuming is done, here are my suggestions. I would suggest that you use troop guides to help the new scouts. Even if you had the new parents to help out, your Scoutmaster would be spending more time with the adults, trying to teach them the program. Scouts should be Scouts teaching Scouts. Utilize your resources. You need to lead the troop guides to "lead" the new scout patrols. Your problem with knifes and sticks should be worked on with the totin chit, this includes safety instructions. As to the focus problem, I see this with almost all young scouts, this makes the troop guides a little more "fun". This also teaches the troop guides on how to become a better leader! Select Troop Guides that have a lot of patience and scout skills.

Ear Plugs!

Disagree with all points except Our youth now love luxury As do I. chatter before company What does this mean? They talk in front of company? They are chipmunks? When I 1st read it I thought it was a FOG quote.

What would happen to the troops that do not have another troop within 100 miles or more, of them? Which is why it could not be a National Policy.

I wonder if the troop had utilized the video A Time to Tell? And if that would have stopped this incindent? Did the 12 year old scout know that it was okay to run out of the tent screaming before the alleged rape. Still would have been an big issue.

I beleive that OGE's singing, is what made Bob leave. Good to have you back NJCS, I appreciate your viewpoints and insights on these issues. Even when I do not agree with them.

My take on it is that anyone who can sign off of other requiremnts can sign off of this one also. But you must have an adult leader that is trained in Safe Swim Defense to be there while the testing is in process. From the GTSS Before a BSA group may engage in swimming activities of any kind, a minimum of one adult leader must complete Safe Swim Defense training, have a commitment card (No. 34243) with them, and agree to use the eight defenses in this plan.

Eagledad Excellent advice! troopmom the one statement that I saw no one touch on was "This same dad informed us that we couldn't force parents to go etc." And he is correct, but the committee or scoutmaster can tell him unless he goes his son cannot go, but I think that his involvement may make it worse. No matter what training he gets. Good-luck and please keep us informed. SagerScout Oh boy another new work to look up! kapers

The outfitter we used put a garbage bag inside of the pack, it was a large Duluth pack but should work for a normal pack, and supplied us with heavy duty bags, I do not know where to get these at, but I think if you used two garbage bags and carefully put them in the pack they should be fine, than we put our sleeping bags and tents in, they where very strong and 3 to 4 bags could fit in one, with both bags tied shut, and in the packs, they where not about to get wet. I would suggest you really do not bring your chuck boxes. All you really need is a frying pan, 2 pots, a coffee pot, can be used for more than just coffee, 2 plastic large spoons, and a spatula, per patrol. Keep meals simple do not try to put a dutch oven in the canoe. You may want to check into some dehydrated food, but it is not cheap, There are many good things that you can get at a grocery store that will work just as well, mashed potatoes, hash browns, and so on. For lunch the Tuna in a bag works great, this will prepare the scouts for High Adventures. If you have the little one burner lightweight stoves, they are much smaller and lighter. Tie the packs in the canoe with small nylon cord, leave about 6 feet of slack, this way the packs stay with an overturned canoe. Remember a overturned canoe floats really well! Tie or use bungee cords to secure the fishing poles in the canoes, they do not float and this keeps them out of the way. It would be no problem to put 3 people and 3 packs in a canoe, with plenty of room. (This message has been edited by dan)

I just purchased 4 pair of knee scouts 2 months ago? Are you saying they are no longer avaiable? The councils stores here carry them, but they do run out quite a bit.

My son has ADD. When he is not on meds other leaders just ask me if he is okay, he seems distant, but I see that he is getting better without the meds as he gets older. The decision to medicate or not should be between the doctor, guardian and child. There are many alternates to meds, that I believe should be checked out before the meds are used. Your doctor will have a LOT of info on other possibilities. My son just turned 14 it is his option now if he takes his meds. He takes it daily, unless he forgets. My biggest questions right now, if how long should he be on it? This is question that I have not found a good answer for.

Okay one that I did not do so well on. High Adventure trip, canoeing. On the portages 2 scouts would grab the lightest packs carry them through the portage and than sit down and say they where just to tired to carry anymore. While the other 2 boys would head back to grab another pack. (Yes, I now know we had too much gear) The PL tried talking to the scouts about sharing the load, made no difference, I and the other leader talked about how much easier the portages would be for all if everyone shared the load, and how a scout is helpful. After about 4 days of this one scout started grabbing the heavier pack, the other one never did. It finally came down to directing, from me. Do we chalk this up that we can not reach every boy? Or what could I have done to not turn this into a directing leadership style?

As a father with a son with ADD not ADHD, they are 2 different things. Most people on the forum do not have a clue what it is and how it effects children. Or how hard it is for them. I wish the scouts in your troop good luck. Because after reading some these threads, I worry for them.

Go here and click on chat room http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/welcome.msnw

Great Idea, a large visual to help keep everyone on task! I would also suggest you bring your school calendar to try and work around or with days off school and holidays.

I am pretty sure the reference to not be like the military is in the SM handbook. When I get home I will look it up. I do not like that fact that a BSA troop carried "guns". I do not see what this has to do with the program.

I think most scouters have a special relationship. Notice I said most FOG. Did you get your feelings hurt. Remember you reap what you sow.

I got a brief overview of the presentation that they are planning to do on No Trace for wood badge next year. I am not sure if this is in the standard training or something our council is adding on to WB. (Bob?) If it is standard you may be able to get something from a WB staffer or from your council.

The SM should train the scouts how to lead not show. This sounds the same but it is not. The SM should make sure that the scouts are trained to be able to lead. Yes, the scouts should do ALL of the planning. What bothers me about your post is that the SM does not seem to guide the leaders when they do fail. Are they really failures or did the campout not come off like the adults wanted it to? You state that he has been the SM for 2 years, how long has he been a BS leader? How long have you been a leader? I ask this because it took me over 2 years to start getting a handle on boy lead. Do the boys really dislike him or is it the adults that do not like him and the scouts side with the adults? It is a fine line that Scoutmasters walk.

Looks like the "leaders" really messed this one up! Went to the parents and told them, I do not believe that should have happened, it probably really messed up the investigation. Then SM reported it to the police instead of allowing the DE to do his job. Looks like the "leaders" caused this scout to be expelled.

Ah boys and rocks. I have found that when a boy finds a rock, he knows that the rock does not belong there, it belongs over t h e r e! So he makes this happen!

We made it back! Covered 44 miles of lakes, rivers and 17 portages, averaged 3.1 mph on the water. Janice was not working on Friday, so I could not send her your wishes. The guy that checked us in did not want us to leave, he seemed a little lonely. We got a tow to Hook Island but paddled back to the outfitters. We keep the scouts very busy paddling, but I think that they know they did something pretty special. By the end of the week they where a pretty good team. Of course we had one boy who did not want to be there and quit scouts when we got back last night. I am sure I will be hearing more about this from the committee! The scouts selected a PL and APL and made up a cooking roster, this is the first time that these scouts have used dehrayted food so some of the meals where uniquie. We where supplied with enough food for at least 2 more people. Only one scout was strong enough to portage the food pack till the middle of the week or a canoe, so the other leader and I got quite a workout. I would not do this again unless all scouts could portage a canoe. Did not see any moose or bear or deer. Saw one Bald Eagle, one Osprey, one Mink and many loons, I have been going to the BWCA for 9 years and this is the first time that I have seen a baby loon.

Another thing to consider is to keep buying the same kind of tent year after year, this way when you "retire a tent" you can save the good parts poles, rain flys and so on. These can be used to fix other tents needing replacment parts.