acco40

The council to which I belong ... takes what it can get. I used to be a UC for a Troop and a few Packs - all of different COs. I have since changed to just Packs and have recently changed to none of the above.

Bad idea because some Scouter, who is in to collecting medals, will try to donate 20 gallons of blood in five visits.

It is customary, but not required, to inform the Committee Chair of the Pack your are leaving that: 1) You are leaving/transferring 2) Why you are leaving/transferring The first is because they may not hear from the council office for quite some time. The second, because they may be able to address a problem if one exists.

Scoutfish, I beg to differ. Many folks feel the same as you - Scouts is the great outdoors, being prepared, etc. However, the method (at least one of them) is the great outdoors. The purpose (or aim) is citizenship, personal fitness and character development. How do we go about developing personal fitness? Possibly by having swimming requirements. How do we build character? Possibly by going camping, learning outdoor skills and "being prepared" which could include a basic level of swimming. So can one obtain the aims of Scouting without being able to swim? Yes. If one does, is it the Scouting program? Not really. I think we need to be careful about changing such a basic requirement. For years, one of the selling points of Scouting was to teach boys to swim. My second son really struggled to pass the swimming requirements at the age of 11. A few years later, he really struggled to earn the swimming merit badge. But it really helped him to gain self confidence and really did help in character development. That's the program. A side effect, it is a useful skill to obtain, much more so than learning the clove hitch for instance. In a way, the beauty of the requirement is in the fact that it is difficult for some to master. That doesn't make is wrong or unfair, just difficult. For some boys, trying to learn the Scout Oath is ten time harder than learning to swim. Why should they be made to accomplish that task? Remember, basic swimming is required for Eagle. Neither the swimming nor the lifesaving merit badges are required.

A Scoutmaster "signs-off" on the Scout Spirit requirement by what he puts on the Eagle application. UNIT APPROVAL (personal signatures required) Signature of unit leader____________________________________ Scoutmaster, Coach or Advisor My interpretation is that if a Scoutmaster does not feel the Eagle applicant "worthy" for whatever reason, they should not give "approval" by signing the application.

Yes, Jerry Hall from March, 1980. I would not describe Ms. Hall as "scary" but the flag does appear "backwards" to me in photo.

The Scoutmaster is in a "don't speak unless asked a direct question by either the Eagle candidate or the board members" position. So, exactly how the SM would "get the board back on track" is beyond me, unless the implication is that one would talk to the members after the review is concluded. The Scoutmaster has already given and commented on the Scout's qualifications by signing his Eagle application and approving his Scout Spirit. To attempt to do so again at the EBOR would be redundant. That said, the Scoutmaster, not a person of the Scout's choosing, is expected to be present during an EBOR. The Scoutmaster may appoint a proxy (i.e. one of their SAs) to take their place if desired - for example if the son of the Scoutmaster is being interviewed.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Lisabob-have your son look into the requirements for a patrol outing (no adults needed, SM permission needed). In parallel, have an adults only meeting with the parents of the Scouts who may want to participate in a patrol outing. Ask them if they would be willing to let their sons go on a patrol outing. When I was a Scoutmaster, I asked the older boys (all of which were in the same two patrols) if they would be interested in a patrol outing. They really liked the idea and planned accordingly. I aslo asked them how many of them had parents who would allow it. Most, just stared at the floor when I asked that question! After lobbying, educating and reassuring the parents - we planned a "troop" outing where one half of the troop (under 13 years of age) camped at a council camp with a visiting Webelos den. I dropped of the 10 or so boys - ages 13 - 16 (we were a young troop) at the other end of the camp (about 2 miles away), got the supplies they needed out of the troop trailer and said essentially -"have fun!" I checked on them first thing in the morning and right before bedtime (unannounced "social" visit) and it was one of the most memorable outings they have had. Personally, I think our expectations are much to low for our boys.

Yes, I think the article was well written and generally I agree with the content. I think we should all be able to learn from this article that someone else may agree with me on the same issues the article brought up and come away with the idea that they would not support the BSA. I think it shows us how, in the real world, many shades of gray exists.

I'm still upset that non-land owners can vote!

Quick synopsis Pros: 2 Reasons: Don't see it as a problem; why exclude if CO wanted them to be leaders, considers them to be suitable for a leadership position, of good character, etc., Cons: 2 Majority rules (but 26 were "for" and 409 "abstained."), I'm tired of hearing about it. Made Light of the Issue: 6 Barney Weiner, ZZZZZZ, NOW, torches & axes, mock of congrees, beavers, ... If I was a judge, I say the "pro" vote had better arguments. Does the BSA have the legal right to deny membership to boys who have gay parents? Yes. My question is, "What purpose does it serve?" Just for Merlin: I say admit the gay parents, as long as they are not atheists! (This message has been edited by acco40)

If you get really old Ivory soap, you may get a glimpse of Marilyn Chambers!

Ideally, dens should max out at 8. The usual reason for big dens is a lack of den leaders. One way to solve the problem is to let the den leader (the one who has the gumption to volunteer) determine the den size and the members! If the others don't like it, let them step up. Tough love in action!

The Boy Scout program is essentially "use the eight methods to achieve the three aims." It really is that simple. What I don't like to hear is folks who feel they can choose, cafeteria style, from the eight methods to achieve the two out of three aims they think are important - and still feel they are fulfilling the BSA mission.

Army Corps of Engineers Announcement http://www.lrc.usace.army.mil/pao/Release_eDNA_19Jan2010.pdf Following last week's Supreme Court decision not to force action on the Asian carp migration, Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan introduced legislation Wednesday to force Chicago to close locks, erect barriers, and take other emergency measures to prevent the spread of the invasive fish to Lake Michigan. Camp's bill, HR 4472 ("Close All Routes and Prevent Asian Carp Today," or CARP ACT), would force Illinois to take the measures that the Supreme Court let it skip, particularly closing the locks that allow water from the Chicago River into Lake Michigan, and taking aggressive measures to "prevent the spread of Asian Carp through the use of fish toxicant, commercial fishing and netting, harvesting, and other means necessary." The bill also contains language designed to minimize the commercial impact on Chicago and the rest of the state of Illinois, although state and local officials are unlikely to support the measures, as they predict that closing the locks will have a harshly deleterious impact on the shipping industry. The Huffington Post

The Scout was working on First Class so the new council just accepts that he earned Scout, Tenderfoot and Second Class? Absolutely not. One may start working on First Class without finishing Tenderfoot. Folks, changing troops is a formal process. The change does no happen until the paperwork is complete. Scouts change troops all the time. Not all troops are for all scouts, nor should they be.

I think the "winter or summer" answers are skewed depending on where one lives. I've camped in every month. For myself, I don't like to have my face covered so when the temps drop below 20 or so or if it is windy, I don't mind the cold so much but a simple Friday - Sunday camping trip can leave my face fairly windburned and raw. And yes, I know how to prevent it but I just can't stand to cover my face (mask, vaseline, etc.). I also am not a big fan of heat and humidity, mosquitos, etc. So what I prefer the most is autumn camping (I live in Michigan) where the day's highs are in the 45 - 65F ranges and the nights anywhere from 15 - 40F. I've camped in 100F and above days with high humidity - heat index above 100 for four or five days straight (2005 Jambo survivor) and on weekends where the highs have been single digits. The one trouble I have with low temps is when the water supply freezes what do you do? It is hard to make a meal when all you have is a solid block of ice inside of a plastic water jug. On the other hand, the only time I had to deal with hypothermia was at summer camp when we had about three straight days of constant rain, high temps in the upper 50s, etc. The boys went through all of their dry clothing, didn't need rain gear (that was for wimps), etc. and if you've ever been wet in 55F weather for 48 hours you get pretty darn cold. I was fine (I had sense to stay dry) but we had to "rescue" of few boys. So optimum - fall setting, colorful leaves still on the trees, sunny days with highs in the upper 60s. Nights in the lower 40s and it no rain for a few days. All you have to add is well behaved Scouts but I know I'd be asking for too much with that!

Any youth of "scouting age" may attend any troops outings or meetings from the BSA's perspective. However, a Scout is registered with only one "unit" i.e. troop, at a time. To change troops, a Scout needs to register with the new troop, not just attend their meetings and outings. If he is a member of "troop 1" for instance, only they can turn in an advancement report for that Scout (and have the council process it). When a Scout wants to transfer troop, a fairly common occurence, immediately after transfering (i.e. turning in new application) they should request that their advancement records be transferred too. TroopMaster comes in handy for this but is not required obviously. P.S. One sign of a successful troop - they do not do merit badges at troop meetings.

The error is in "asking." Choose who you ask with great care or better yet, find out via official BSA publications. I don't know how many times I was told "definitively" some sort of Scout "rule" that was incorrect. We owe it to the boys to get trained, train ourselves and not just "ask around." Now, I'll grant that the BSA leaves a lot of room open for interpretation. Yes, a the uniform is one of the eight methods, it is not a requirement but Scout spirit is. So, is it adding to requirements if I deem that a Scout, who owns a uniform, just doesn't have enough "spirit" to actually put it on for a BOR?

On Tuesday, the US Supreme Court ruled that it will not force Illinois to shut locks that other states say could allow invasive Asian carp into Lake Michigan. Hours later, the US Army Corps of Engineers announced that they had found Asian carp DNA in Lake Michigan. Michigan Governor calls for a White House summit (doesn't she know he's from Chicago?). http://www.stopasiancarp.com/

At the last National Jamboree (the first one after 9/11 - teh Scouts were told they couldn't take in water bottles (in the searing heat) to the ceremony. Also, no scout knives, adults had to carry all cameras, spend five hours (literally) waiting in line to go through a metal detector, etc. I had numerous Scouts ask me, "How come the President" doesn't trust Scouts?" Common sense it not always common.

Well if some can be more devout than others, can't one be more "athiest" or is it atheistic than someone else. Oh, yeah, but I don't believe in a higher power even more than you! Kind of reminds me of all those angels on the head of a pin. Anyway, touch, spelling was never my strong suit.(This message has been edited by acco40)

1) There would be no gay folks*. 2) There would be no atheists*. 3) There would be a severe shortage of adult leaders! *BSA only.

Adolescents are more "appearance" conscience than any other segment of society in my judgment. They just don't gravitate toward an appearance that garners the most universal positive feedback. And I beg to differ about Google. Take a look (in Ann Arbor for instance) about what they wear to work. I bet that if a potential candidate came to an interview is a starched white shirt, black shoes, tie, cuff links, etc. he would lessen his chances of hire due to his "non-creative" appearance. I guess having two sons who have earned Eagle, I realize that what we teach them when in the earlier ranks still needs to be taught in the older ranks. My son wanted a SM conference once for silver eagle palms, at home and I agree and went to put on my uniform. He asked if he was "required" to and I just asked him what did he think - and he went an changed. Nothing "magical" happens when they earn eagle (although the BSA doesn't really want me to let that be known). I think some have a predetermined conception of those who set the expectation for proper uniforming in the BSA as pejorative "uniform police" and "adding to the requirements" types - and yes some are, but I feel the vast majority are just folks who agree to deliver the Scouting program as intended by the BSA and don't feel the need to put our personal stamp on it. Is it rude to point out to a Scout that he is wearing insignia incorrectly on his uniform? Is in rude to point out to a Scout that his first aid skills are incorrect? To both, it all depends on the manner in which it is done.

No argument here. Now start a new thread and ask if committee members should wear their uniforms when holding a meeting with no youths present. I say yes, but the vast majority, my guesss, is no. I think the Scouts pick up on this. Just like the habit I've seen in many troops that have the expectation that the youth wear neckerchiefs but not the adult leaders. As a Scoutmaster I was continually frustrated that the same parents who steadfastly refused to wear a uniform - they were registered scouters - a redundant term mind you) complained that the boys were lax in uniforming. Go figure.(This message has been edited by acco40)