acco40

Technically, you don't have a choice of Councils. You reside in one council, not two and you should limit your troop choices to that council. However, practically speaking, many do what you suggest.

Two deep leadership is required for all meetings.

If it is really a high adventure trip, the easiest way is to give SM/SAs preference (that is what their position dictates and the folks that should be trained) and then assuming "equal" qualifications - let who gets "registered" or their money in first as the tie breaker. I would go for a minimum of three and a maximum of three. You don't want two because if one can't make it, gets hurt (during or before the trek) the outing would need to be cancelled. More than three and the 'adventure' is more geared for the adults and not the Scouts.

At what age should the student/scout be allowed to set their priorities versus having their parents set their their priorities? I'll give you a hint. Parents have their priorities and can flow down punishments/rewards to their offspring but they really can't set their children's priorities. Only they themselves can do that.

Late night TV has many so called remedies for this condition. Oh, never mind, I thought you stated package.

How can one agree with what is in the Bible (almost any Christian bible) and complain about any Christian trying to 'convert' anyone? If so, one must not have much knowledge of that faith. Certain units are faith based - they should have the right to discriminate based on faith. One bit of information that is misinformation - Thats why its so important that as leaders we make sure that YP is a priority in our units and that no meeting or outing is ever conducted with out two deep leadership in place. Nowhere does it state that two deep leadership is required for meetings. You may be confusing two deep leadership with one-on-one contact with youth.

What about someone else's wife?

Scouting or schoolwork - the Scout should make that priority decision with inputs from his parents and others. There is no wrong answer. However, he could have asked the teacher - immediately on Friday for extra time after explaining his options. What bothers me is the opposite. Scouts who do choose school over scouts (no problem there) but then get in a huff if they don't advance as fast as others who made a different choice. Go figure.

imasoonerfan - Is your unit more troop oriented or patrol oriented? P.S. As a Mizzou grad with a father who was a 'Husker - it pains me to be cordial but you do rate slightly higher than a longhorn fan.

Okay, time to put on my psychology hat. Answer: It depends. If the reasoning behind the rule "You can't have a car (or license) until you earn the Auto Mechanics Merit Badge!" is because the parent feels the Scout needs to have knowledge of car maintenance no issue. If it strictly is because the parent places a value judgment on earning a merit badge to achieve rank or status, not such a good idea. Seemingly harmless things like "Eat your vegetables and you can have a piece of cake" puts emotional content into food choices. Eat vegetables: a punishment, a bad thing, etc. Eat dessert/sweets: a reward, comfort, etc. And then we wonder why some try to gain happiness by eating. One of my biggest pet peeves - the judge ordered the offender to do 100 hours of community service. Then we wonder why our Scouts tend to view community service as punishment. Jeez. I had one son that is heavily influenced by "bribes" such as these and one who is not. I think the real answer is it depends on the individual but like money for grades, I tend to feel these should be kept to a minimum.(This message has been edited by acco40)

In 2007 we did a great backpacking trip to Double H in New Mexico. We had a guide, three adults and 6 Scouts. The boys decided that they did not want to get up "early" but instead, rise, eat breakfast and clean up at a leisurely pace before trekking out. This meant that most of the 6 - 7 mile trek was done during the heat of the day (in the desert mind you in July). Being young (15 -17), in shape (high school track (1), football (3), wrestling (2), skiing (1) teams) - they didn't care or complain about it. Being over 50, just able to squeeze in under the weight proportional to height limit (I'm vertically challenged) I was not to pleased with their decision but it was their decision. On the third day our trek group met up with a few others and the guide of another trek severly chastised us (the adults) as being poor leaders because we "allowed" the Scouts to get up "late" in her eyes. Some just don't get the program.

Can they? Yes. Who decides? Professionals, CO May they without a background check? No.

Many years ago (9?) I took the Strictly for Scoutmasters course at PTC. One of the things I noticed was that Scoutmasters from the midwest were generally going on all of the troop outings. Scoutmasters from the coasts and far west did not. The Scoutmaster was not very much different from the SAs. I'm not saying one is more or less correct, just an observation.

One of the reasons I stepped down as Scoutmaster a few years ago was for similar debates like this. When I was Scoutmaster, I believe part of my "job" was to provide continuity, a public face to the troop, consistent expectations for the Scouts, etc. Some of the parents wanted a "Scoutmaster of the month" type of leadership. You've seen the types, they distribute a calendar at the beginning of the year and ask all parents - Scouters or not - to pick two outings to "go on" and at least one to "lead." As a Scoutmaster, my biggest challenge was not the Scouts but the parents who were not trained, and wanted to do things their way. Now, I'm not a control freak but when a mother pushed for the troop to eat as a troop (not as patrols) becaused we could save money by buying in bulk, have the adults cook up and clean, because they can do a better job and do it quicker, etc. I put my foot down. Yes, I stated, your observations are correct but that is not the Scouting program. The goal is not who can cook and clean the fastest, who can feed the boys the cheapest, etc. The methods and aims meant nothing to them - just get Johnny to Eagle! Now one may say that playing video games has no merit but the outing can be beneficial. We usually limited our outings to one video outing a year. The boys panned where, made reservations, made sure the electrical hook-ups were sufficient (most Scout camp cabins were not designed around big screen TVs and game counsoles!), meal planning, transportation planning. The new things to plan for - compatible controllers, allowable games, sharing, etc. I found out that they really took ownership because they knew that their Scoutmaster, i.e. me, could care less if their X-boxes, PSPs, Wiis, etc. worked right or not. I also found out that there was also a few boys who want to organize a pick up game of touch football or ultimate frisbee and challenge their 50 plus year old Scoutmaster. I happily obliged. My mantra was that if they planned it, i.e. not sit back and wait for adults to arrange entertainment for them, they could pretty much plan anything they wanted as long as it was not a health and safety issue. I did have a few "my rules" that could be perceived as adult led - at least one winter campout in tents, no more than one video outing per year, etc. but I gave them quite a bit of leeway and you can bet that although not thrilled with every selection I went on 90% of the outings - and was glad I did. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

If the Catholic Church or Prysbyterian Church or what ever "main stream" religious organization made the Scouting program the "official" youth program of their church you would bet that they would get the attention of the BSA - ergo the "power" of the LDS in the BSA. I don't see much of a problem except for big picture issues - God, gays, girls, etc. I'd be interested to know what type of insurance, if any, the BSA has for these type of lawsuits.

I found out that in our troop, in general, the youngest Scouts got up the earliest. They had not yet entered into the glorious teen years where one's body clock shift a minimum of two hours forward. We had many a campout where half the Scouts were up with no youth leadership up. The one and only time I purposely violated the G2SS was when my two sons (one the SPL), their friend (ASPL who knew me really well) and another Scout who I had been den leader and Scoutmaster to for over 10 years were still all asleep in their platform tent, the whole rest of the troop were up, had eaten and cleaned up for breakfast. It was around 9:00 AM or so (been daylight for over four hours) and I simply told the other adults my intentions. I walked into the tent carrying the adult patrol cookware and once inside stated banging on the pots and pans with large metal spoons. They got the message. As Scoutmaster, I always had a heart to heart talk with the SPL on outings. I let the youth pick the "go to bed" time and the "when to get up time" with the caveat that whatever they decide I was going to hold them to it. For the most part that worked out well.

An Oregon jury's decision to award a man $18.5 million in punitive damages in his case against the Boy Scouts of America will likely be the first of many financial hits the Scouts will take as it prepares to defend itself against a series of sex abuse lawsuits. Anybody have any idea how many lawsuits may be in the pipeline?

TwoCubDad - yes, I thought it was weird also. I wouldn't say it was "planned" - it was more or less impromptu but in the spirit of SPL asking, youth led and no real reason to say no, I okayed it. And yes, I'm glad it did not become an issue.

I don't understand your statement Mr. Boyce. In your research, what have you found as the reason the BSA does not allow "avowed" homosexuals?

I'll probably get crucified for this but ... Scene - Summer Camp, last evening before departure, nearing 11:00 PM. The SPL came to me, the Scoutmaster, and asked if they (boys only) could sit around the camp fire in just their boxer shorts. I thought this was a rather strange request. I talked it over with my assistant scoutmasters - all male, no females in camp - and I gave my approval. Now, the troop was rather young, the oldest boys were around 14 or 15, there were around 20 boys and their campfire was around 50 ft from our (adult) site so we could hear and kind of keep and eye on them. Nothing much happened and for years later, the boys (thinking that they got away with something?) still talk about that as one of the greatest times they had. So, getting ones undies in a knot because a boy is shirtless? I guess swimming is forbidden?

Merit badge counselors determine if merit badge requirements are met. Scoutmasters, who are in charge of the advancement program of their unit, determine if a rank requirement is met. They may use proxy's (SAs, PLs, TGs, SPLs, Instructors, etc.) but they ultimately are the deciders. Now, the above assumes districts and councils don't get involved. Now for some practical advice, the worst thing a Scoutmaster can do is to dampen the enthusiasm of a new Scout. If a Scout participated in a Eagle scout leadership service project for at least one hour, most SMs would determine that the 2nd Class requirement was met. I'm confused by your writing (Firescouter64) because service and map and compass & hikes don't seem related. If you are asking if the rank requirements and merit badge requirements can be met simultaneously? The answer is it depends on what is stated in the MB requirements but usually yes if approved by the SM and/or MB counselor. For example, just because a Scout was 2nd Class, if the MB required him to know something that was embedded in that rank requirement too (i.e. certain first aid) or vice versa, I still wanted the Scout to show proficiency.

The USA has many laws, preferences, determinations that are based on race, sexual orientation and other such things that don't really have a strict definition. Teresa Heinz almost became the first "African-American" first lady. She was born in Africa and is an American. Some didn't think so because of her light complection. What constitutes race? What constitutes sexual orientation? Should it be self defined? My only beef is that if "society" is going to offer scholarships, admittance to sport teams, etc. based on these things then their needs to be a definition of the terms.

Life, metal miniature pin, No. 00123, mother, civilian wear. (politically correct name is now parents pin) Life Rank pin, measures 1" x 1" ($3.89) is a restricted item. This is somethimes refered to as a Standard Pin (available for all ranks). On scoutstuff.org it is listed as a "gift" item so I'm not sure why it would be restricted. The First Class Rank Pin is gold-tone and is slightly more expensive at $24.95 and slightly larger 1.5" by 1.125" and not restricted. Go figure. The activity uniform is worn during travelling or other occasions in which the field uniform would not be appropriate wear. A small pin denoting the rank of the Scout may be worn on the left side below the words "Boy Scout" (referencing the red BSA polo shirt). When scouting began in the U.S. in 1910, the rank badges were issued only as pins. The Tenderfoot pin was worn on the left pocket flap. Second Class and First Class were worn on the left sleeve. Life, Star and Eagle were worn above the left pocket. Cloth badges for Second Class, First Class, Life and Star were first issues in 1913. Tenderfoot was thought of as a temporary rank and before 1921 was represented as a pin similar to the presentation of the Bobcat pin in Cub Scouts before it became a cloth badge. In these early years, the pins and cloth badges were issued in both gold and silver. Silver denoted the scout was a patrol leader. Gold was for everyone else. Again, since only Second Class, First Class and Tenderfoot as a combination badge were worn on the sleeve, only these ranks were made in gold and silver. Even with the silver badge, scouts were given patrol leader and assistant patrol leader green bars cloth badges beginning in 1914 and senior patrol leader in 1915. Until 1925, Life was earned before Star. (lifted from www.sageventure.com)

Look at the popularity of the name Adolf pre & post WWII.

I played this in both Wood Badge (Go Bears!) and in a corporate team building setting. If the game is conducted correctly the kicker is that if you follow the rules and assume from the beginning what should be done so that the most money is won for the whole class (not most by a team) it calls for strategy A. If you feel the goal is to make more money than any other team (the natural interpretation almost all but not really spelled out by the instructions), it calls for strategy 2. What usually happens is that after a few rounds it finally sinks in that strategy 1 should be employed. Of course there are those that think having $100 dollars if everyone else only has $50 is better for them that having $150 and having everyone else have $150. I thought it was a great exercise.