acco40

From the perspective of the ... Scout Executive - number of registered youth and adults Scoutmaster - leadership qualities of the SPL & PLs Parents - how will you make sure my son "gets" Eagle? Scout - am I having fun? Commissioner - did it meet the Centennial Award goals?

As a Scoutmaster I kind of feel like I'm the patrol leader of the adults while on campouts. I don't want the adults smoking in sight of the Scouts but I also don't want them smoking around me or my campsite. Someone asked if it is a youth protection issue - it is. Science is finding out that the health effects from second hand smoke are much worse than first thought. I also request that all smokers field strip their butts and take the filters home with them. Overweight Scouters are not usually a health risk to the Scouts. They can also be useful as an example to boys who may visualize and witness the shortcomings that obesity may bring to individuals. To address these issues, we do need to remember to be courteous, kind, cheerful and for those who do smoke please be obedient to the G2SS. As with most things, following the Scout Oath and Law will solve most anything.

Both my sons and I attended with our council contingent troops in 2005 (our council sends 5 troops). We are from Michigan and the bus ride to/from, water park experience, tour of DC (including two nights) and Jambo cost $1200 per Scout ($600 for adult leader). Now we slept in a school gymnasium one night and at a church in a lower middle class neighborhood another night. The $1200 included meals for the Scouts. A trip can be arranged for under $2000 in one is within 1000 miles. Maybe the deaths, injuries, mismanagement of major events and health issues from 2005 play a part too?

The expectation for all treks going at Double H was to provide service for a conservation project. I do know that some in the RMEF were not real happy with Scouts on the grounds. Unlike Philmont, the wildlife was not quite used to humans but were getting there. Humans = food. But I will say that the guides and the folks I was with took extreme caution to strictly follow Leave No Trace quidelines. My trek there in 2007 was wonderful.

Here in souteast Michigan, things are bleak. Just like the rest of hte USA only it has been like this here for at least three years. GM, a big supporter of Scouting, has announced cut-backs in their charitable budgets. Who can blame them when it is held against them. The United Way has dropped my local council from organizations they help (unless givers specifically earmark for them). We've planted a bug in our councils ear about cutting back on "side trips" to Jambo (DC monuments, waterpark, etc.) and correspondingly reduce the cost. Don't think that will happen. I'm optimistic that the recent economic times may help educate our youth (those under 50 ) about being truly thrifty. Scouts (just like teh Catholic Church) is going after the hispanic population - traditionally family oriented and religious. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. I'm welcoming to all but what is mainstream America these days? When the economy goes sour two things can happen - it can unite us to all work together or it can divide us each going after what they "deserve." We'll probably get some of each. I for one think our society is way to commercial. For those who really want to save the economy - the worst thing you can do is what have some prescribed to do - watch what they spend. Well, I guess if I can survive "stagflation" I can survive this. What I want to know is if money is so tight why can I get a decent return for a fixed rate investment? God, remind me to never, ever vote for anyone with an MBA!

This is a little off topic but ... The "family camp" is on the BSA property but it is not in the Scout camp proper. Some adults who work all summer stay in their RV (such as the trading post lady, etc.) but none of the Scouts or Scouters involved with the troop stay there. A Scouts family (parents and siblings) may choose to stay their too. It is about a 15 minute walk from the where our unit traditionally camps at summer camp.

Many direct contact Scouters seem to have difficulty is transitioning from a parental role to a Scouter role. At summer camp one year I had a mother (MC), who was camping in family camp in their RV come down to our camp about once a day and always inquired on about what her son was doing or had done that way. Her inquiries were always directed at him, not the youth or adult leaders. One day, she asked her son about a particular item and he said he couldn't find it. Well she proceeded to go into his tent and rummage around looking for the item. I discreetly went over to her, while and politely asked her to get out of her son's tent because of youth protection rules. She was dumbfounded but after I explained to her that her son's tent mate may not be thrilled to have someone else's mother in "his" tent I think it finally dawned on her why such rules exist. As a Scoutmaster, I like the fact that there are "rule" that I can quote without having to justify them "whys" all the time to the parents.

Beavah, have you used TroopMaster? When you enter an "activity" be it a COH, troop meeting, camping, etc. you can enter backpacking or hiking as the activity. What is entered really doesn't decide if MBC requirements are met or not. As I stated in my original post, it really is the MBCs call, I realize that. Again, thanks CA_Scouter & ljnrsu.

Troop goes on an outing where the participants arrive at a camp site by car and pitch their tents. Next morning get up, pack their tents, bed rolls, food, camp stoves etc. into their backpacks and travel eleven miles, eat their meals on the trail, put up their tents, and spend the night. Next morning arise, cook breakfast, pack up, travel another seven miles and again eat on trail, put up their tents, and spend the night. Next morning eat, pack their backpacks, travel five miles and then get picked up to return home. For the above outing I "credit" the boys with (all various ranks) three nights of tent camping and 23 miles of backpacking. Two months later a parent "corrects" me and said I should have credited his son with 23 miles of hiking. Okay, it's obvious the Scouts backpacked 23 miles. I told the parent, it never seems to be the Scout who questions anything, I could credit his son with 23 miles of hiking if he wishes instead of backpacking. Should I credit the Scout with 23 miles of hiking and backpacking or should I credit the Scout with 23 miles of hiking or backpacking (Scout's choice) or just keep it simple and credit them with backpacking. Not to be blunt, but I'm not really interested in opinions but in the BSA position. Because the backpacking and hiking are really merit badge type requirements, it really is the MBC call but as a Scoutmaster who uses Troopmaster, should I enter the event as a backpacking event, hiking event or as two separate simultaneous events (thus giving credit for both)? (This message has been edited by acco40)

One should wear the rank patch if they are registered as a youth, the knot if registered as an adult and neither if they are not registered. My biggest beef is boys who earn the Eagle rank right before 18, don't register as adults or youth when their current registration comes up for renewal and then show up in uniform to ECOHs for their "friends" in their youth uniform proudly displaying their rank badge.

Try this. Play dumb. Be non-threatening. Go ask the CC what is the purpose of the Committee in a Boy Scout troop. See what he comes up with. ScoutMomSD - A pack committee and a troop committee have vastly different roles.

First, congrats! My story is about the same except my wife signed me up as Tiger Den Leader and now, after two sons getting Eagle and 11 years under the bridge, I'm ready to retire or at least ease back from Scouting. Second, set expectations for the boys (communicated to both them and their parents) and set expectations that you have for the parents. Third, keep in mind that most of them have the attention span of about 15 seconds and make sure they have something to do (i.e. draw, run, move, act, write, speak, etc.). No lectures or anything that resembles school. Fourth, contact a local troop and investigate the use of a Den Chief.

Now, now, lets stay civil. Maybe some are suggesting Obama keep Biden away from the press and only allow 10-30 seconds photo ops with him and foreign dignitaries and no conversations with the press.

Our troop hat is a black booney type hat. On that hat, worn only for certain occasions, like Webelos recruiting, etc. I have nearly one hundred hat pins from locations our troop has gone camping but I also have a Bear WB patch and other assorted "trinkets." Probably not really appropriate but when in the field or more truly formal scouting occasions, I wear my "Scoutmaster" hat which is basically the Stetson with a 1st Class pin on front.

Won't they be busy playing baseball?

Forget Ghandi, Martin Luther, etc. They did not choose to join a program and then not follow the "rules." As Scouters, we signed up to deliver the program. It really sticks in my craw the number of scouters, including many participate on this forum, who try to rationalize their behavior by stating that the "rule" of the BSA is something they willfully choose to ignore. My advice, remove yourself from the program. I'm dead serious. It is difficult enough to deliver the program to the youth without a bunch of adults who do not wish to follow the program because they "know better." Get out! Get out now! Don't let the door hit you on the way out! I understand not following a rule due to ignorance, interpretation, etc. But when it is in black and white - who may sit on BORs for example - why on Earth would someone knowingly not follow the instructions that come with the program? Why risk having the advancement of a scout be put in question? Such action truly bewilders me.

Kudos to Kudu. Now does someone want to get into a discussion about Baden-Powells "boy friend" or why he had headaches immediately after he married his his wife, 32 year younger than him, and then they disappeared two years later after he established separate sleeping quarters? Yes the Supreme Court determined that the BSA was a private organization and as such could establish membership rules that they saw fit. The Supreme Court has also made many rulings on abortion, slavery, privacy and a host of other issues where there is no universal agreement.

Okay, I'm shooting from the hip (not an advancement chair) but my understanding is: The advancement form for is simply to record advancement! It is not for the purchasing of rank badges. The BSA uses the advancement form to update their records. The general public may enter a Scout shop and purchase rank patches. Some shops are more restrictive on the Eagle badge but I've bought them without an advancement report. The small cardboard rank and merit badge cards should not serve as proof of anything. They are a memento for the holder and an item that can be purchased by the general public as well. Now, sometimes the lines get blurred. As a unit, our troop has tripped the unit FOS threshold so that we get "free" rank advancement patches. This does not mean that I can simply walk into the scout shop and scoop up a bunch of patches for free. What it means is that when we turn in an advancement report (our unit advancement chair still prefers paper and not the on-line system ) we receive the patches too. Now a trick question - may the general public go into a scout shop and purchase a BSA uniform without showing proof of membership? What about a pair of scout socks?

It is necessary the someone be aware of the BSA program and understand that as Scouters, that is what we signed up to deliver. That could be any number of individuals - the unit leader (i.e. Scoutmaster), COR, Committee Chair, active Unit Commissioner, etc. ideally, it would be every adults - registered and non-registered. For continuity's sake, a COR would be ideal but not a necessity. I know I've spent over 50% of my time trying to educate adults who question why we do things a certain way - usually in a nonconstructive way. The usual answer is, of coursse, that we do things not because it is the way I prefer but it is simply the program.

Merit badges are not restricted items, therefore, you may buy them when you have the cash and during hours that the Scout shop is open. That is the simple answer. The more indepth answer, as many have stated, is that Scouts should not be buying merit badge, rank, service star, etc. items. These should be done by your unit. The fact that you may have or not have the actual badge is irrelevant to your pursuit to the Eagle rank. You do not need to own the patches, you need to have earned them. Not having the merit badges on your MB sash would be an excellent point to bring up to the committee members on your BOR. One of the responsibilities of the committee is to provide an advancement chair who should be aware of you issues.

Is Sheila a hybrid? Those of us up in Michigan might not like that she is Japanese. Liz - "Although I understand the concept put forth by the Boy Scouts that, as a society which places a high value on "reverence" in a society where most of the religious institutions officially disapprove of homosexuality, well, frankly a much larger majority of people (especially religious but most non-religious as well) in this country strongly frown on adultery as immoral." Well yes and know. Society doesn't seem to frown so much as a man comitting adultery but a woman? Well, we can all agree that is immoral!

Normal or not is irrelevant. What is important is that if parents want to go, they need to be allowed to go and they need to understand the constraints. 1) This is not family camping, it is Boy Scout camping so the "rules" of Boy Scout camping apply, not the family rules. 2) Boy Scouts camp in patrols. The parent is not part of their son's patrol, therefore, they do not camp with them in close proximity. 3) Boy Scouts do menu planning, cooking and eating by patrols. Therefore, you will not cook, clean, comment or necessarily eat with your son. You may be invited to eat with your son as an invited guest - find out ahead of time. 4) Don't expect to be helping out your son on the outing. Talk to the Scoutmaster and clarify your role. Expect your role to be that as an SA (Assistant Scoutmaster and do the Scoutmaster's bidding). 5) Most important of all, if your sons asks for your help, repeat this phrase - "Why don't you ask your patrol leader." Again, because this is a very difficult concept for most parents to absorb, repeat - "Why don't you ask your patrol leader." It is suggested that you practice this phrase repeatedly for at least a week before the outing.

I'm biased, but I think it would be more appropriate for an Eagle Scout to give a gift to the Scoutmaster. As a troop, we supply the Eagle "kit" - medal, mentor pin, parents pin, patch. As a Scoutmaster, I've given gifts to various Scouts but not the same thing to all. Also, what most of the boys prefer to get at 16, 17 & 18 - itune gift cards, money, etc. are not the gifts that they would look back on and treasure - Eagle carved neckerchief, plaque, etc. So, keep that in mind when thinking about a gift.

As a Scouter who works directly with the youth (as Scoutmaster) I agree with Kudu that I "teach" by setting an example with my actions (words don't mean much to teenagers). I make absolutely no attempt to "teach" the Scout about religion or religions - that is the duty of his family. The only acception to this is that I will instruct the boys on various traditions and customs certain religions may have and that it is our choice to determine if we wish to be respectful of those traditions and customs even if we are not members of that religious community.

Merlyn, to become a Scout or a Scouter one needs to fill out an application. On the application is the DoRP. Program Policies abridged by acco40 The program is flexible, but major departures from BSA methods and policies are not permitted. As a parent, you should be aware that Leadership is restricted to qualified adults who subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle, the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, and the BSA Standards of Leadership. The Boy Scouts of America recognizes the importance of religious faith and duty; it leaves sectarian religious instruction to the members religious leaders and family. Members who do not belong to a units religious chartered organization shall not be required to participate in its religious activities. Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership. Policy of Nondiscrimination Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all boys and young adults who meet the joining requirements. Now what are the joining requirements? Boy Scout Troop Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18. 1. Complete the application (sign your name, indicating approval). 2. Give the completed application and fees to the Scoutmaster. 3. Secure a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook and complete the joining requirements as listed. (which includes: Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code.) So basically, all a Scout promises to do is do their duty to God (Oath) and be reverent (Law). So, if I was a conniving lawyer (is that redundant? ) I could state that: I see no such requirement for a youth to suscribe to the DoRP. A Scout may feel his duty to God is the same as my duty to Santa Clause - nothing. And to "be reverent" does not tell the Scout what to revere. Yes, the BSA will put out position papers, many will give you their opinions but the vast majority of Scouters will not look for ways to boot the boy out but try to keep the boy in the program so that they derive benefits from the program.