acco40

Seeing that Wood Badge is comprised only of adults - staff and students. All of our activities were adult supervised. What is your point?

So, you have no interest in learning about troop meetings, PLC meetings, patrol meetings, team formation, team development, team leadership, communication, diversity, project planning, chaplain aides, Leave No Trace, problem solving, managing conflict, coaching and mentoring, self-assessment and overall Scouting vision and enthusiasm nor see much use for above?(This message has been edited by acco40)

If it is just to throw in a face - don't use whipped cream, use shaving cream. The famous "Whipped Cream and other Delights" album cover by the Tiajuana Brass used shaving cream with just a dollop of whipped cream on the models hair.

There were a number of positive things I took away from Wood Badge --- probably the most important a deeper sense of commitment to "working my ticket" as a lifelong avocation. WB21C is no different from that respect. Keep in mind, that even WB21C has changed from it's first offering to now. To mimic others, yes, when I took WB21C (first year offered) it was much better than the watered down version they give today! Also, everyone, stop with the "it's required" nonsense. WB21C is not a requirement for anything (except maybe to be on staff, you need to have taken the course).

Having a fold / crease in the same location repetitively weakens the material. That's why the "stuff" instruction is given. For those who "roll", there usually is some folding ot begin with. For myself, why do 98% of tent manufacturers always a proverbial 5 lb tent in a 4 lb bag?

In the future let's just post to the old threads instead of rehashing. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=292540#id_292761 When I was a Scoutmaster for Jambo (2005) Wood Badge training was considered a plus but not mandatory. For 2010/13 the only addition I saw (and I'm all for it) was the "don't be a fat slob" requirement. I think folks are missing the point. It's not an either/or situation. Think of a middle school or high school teacher. Yes they need to know subject matter (Scout skills) but they also need to know about childhood development, adolescent behavior, etc. (WB 21st Century). Which one is more important? That's debateable. Both are needed. Learning one doesn't preclude the other. WB 21st Century does not encourage folks to not have camping experience. When I took the first WB for the 21st Century course (the year it came out) camping was involved. I still don't understand why you feel WB "killed" Scoutcraft. Does teaching my daughter algebra "kill" her English skills? Look at the current Scoutmaster Handbook. It states that Scoutmasters should be familiar/comfortable with the outdoors. Also, the purpose of IOLS training, and I've been the course director for it, it two fold. First, it gives Scouters practical outdoor skills needed to lead Scouts. It gives the participants hands-on training so that they can feel comfortable working with and instructing the boys. Second, the "learn by doing" exposes the adults to what we expect of the boys as well as doing it in a patrol fashion. I'm curious, exactly what skill do you feel is so difficult that an average intelligence, average physically capable adult would have difficulty completing in a weekend IOLS course? Have I tied all the knots required for Tenderfoot through first class? Yes. Have I taught all those knots? Yes. Do I need to refresh myself before a class each time for certain knots? Yes! Have I then mastered that skill? I'm guessing we may get different responses on that one. Now, my formal education is in engineering and more theoretical than hands on. So, I admit I'm not the Scoutmaster with thirty years of knife, axe, orienteering, knot tying, etc. experience? No. Had I camped, canoed, cooked, studied first aid before I became involved with Scouting? Yes! Scouting experiences helped me learn more about water filtration/sterilization (what works best, what doesn't), backpacking and a few other specialized areas (monkey fist!) but I feel what I brought to the table that helped the most was my knowledge of boys, adolescents, the BSA program itself, child development, leadership skills, teaching techniques, etc. What I wish the BSA would teach Scouters is how to deal with Scout parents!

In pre-modern times, when I as a youth, a tap-out was not a tap out. It was not a hand coming down on the shoulder, it was an open palm thump to the chest. It really wasn't painful but as they say, the anticipation was the killer. The OA "thumper" would go down and look at each Scout eye to eye. The Scout had no idea if he was going to be "tapped out" or not. Two OA folks were behind the Scout because most tap-outs would knock the Scout over. In a different state & council and most importantly century, the call-out goes something like this. The troop holds an OA election. At the conclusion of the election the Scoutmaster announces if it was "successful" or not. Success is defined as "someone" was elected. No info on how many or who is released. I kept that info to myself. I may share it with the parents (or not) if I knew that they wanted to be present during a call-out ceremony. The actual ceremony would take place, preferably at summer camp, with runners behind the Scout, and the Scout "tapped-out" by touch to the shoulder. The runners would hurriedly lead the Scout on-stage.

I think we have a few too many conspiracy theorists. What do the Wood Badge beads supposed to represent? That a person has gone through the WB course and fulfilled his ticket. So those who have done either the pre 21st Century WB or the current WB may wear the beads. So lets say I took Cub Scout WB in 1954 and now want to take the 21st Century WB course. I enroll, I take the course. I have not completed my ticket yet. Should I wear the beads? No, not until I've completed my ticket. They are not taking away the old beads. I completely disagree with Kudu on the purpose of Scouting. The outdoors is a method and should not be eliminated but it is not an aim. As a parent, I wanted my sons to learn character, citizenship and personal fitness. Yes, there would be raised eyebrows if after announcing that he was an Eagle scout he proclaimed he had no idea how to tie a taut-line hitch. Leadership, like the outdoors is a method - not an end goal. Neither should be eliminated. Now, how does the BSA attract boys (and possibly girls?)? It is a business with popular grass roots support. Some do not want to stray away from the traditional Scoutcraft orientation. I agree to an extent but the fact that semaphore, Morse code, beekeeping etc. are no long emphasized does not upset me in the least. How to orient a map a compass are good to keep in the requirements area IMO but the addition of GPS usage is great too. To be good Scouters that interface with the boys we need to have skills in two areas - Scout skills yes, but also such "people skills" as leadership, group dynamics, organizational skills, etc. Having one without the other is not good but I'd rather have a Scoutmaster for my son who was more lacking in the Scout skills area than the "people skills" area. After all, if we expect 12 year olds to master 1st Class skills, I don't think the adults should struggle with them too much without formal training.(This message has been edited by acco40)

No one can't fail a SMC but ... Say a boy has issues during a camping trip and the Scoutmaster schedules a conference with the boy to discuss his behavior. The Scout is a 1st Class scout. At the end of the the conference, the boy shoves his Scout Handbook to his Scoutmaster and asks him to sign off on the SMC for Star. Has he not participated in a SMC while 1st Class? Yes, but when I was in charge of the advancement in the troop, as Scoutmater, I would not sign of on that requirement.

I was in a simular situation a couple of years ago. I was Scoutmaster for about seven years. Toward the end, I heard parental complaints, some direct, some indirectly that said my expectations for the boys were too high. That usually came along when I expected such things as the SPL & PLC to plan out the troop meetings, the PLC to attend annual planning and come prepared with suggestions and ideas, etc. On the other hand, if I made decisions such as not playing laser tag as a troop meeting the parents would pull out their trump card that I was not letting the boys lead. So, I thought I must be doing something right when 1/3 thought I had to high expectations from the boys and the 1/3 thought I didn't let them lead enough! For the last two years, I was working with the CC to find my replacement. The best candidates didn't want the responsibility and those that did, I didn't feel were the right folks for the job. In the end, I stepped down on my own. Now, the troop has a single Scoutmaster in name only but really the job revolves around a few fathers and a few mothers "run the show" - their goals is to get Johnny his Eagle rank as painlessly as possible. So the adults plan outings, cook for the troop, etc.

If one searches through the archives, the topic of Roundtable "folks" being on the training staff vs. commissioner staff was enlightening.

How does a Scout "skate" to Eagle? Simple, my son worked his butt off to earn Eagle. But (insert other Scout's names here) had an easy time of it and did not do what my boys did. As Scoutmaster, that was made plain to me every day by the vast majority of parents I came into contact with.

We should now award the BoTiWoBe (Bow - Tie - Woe - Bee) award. Initially, it is derived from Bobcat - Tiger - Wolf - Bear ranks. Later on, we can "re-educate" and state that is stands from Boy, Tiinkering Worsens the program Besides the best intentions of those who do it.

I've been married 25 years and have a daughter and sister. I've yet to fathom the complex world of women's sizing for clothes. I have learned that if I buy the wrong size, I loose - too big or too small. So you can guess my solution. I have noticed however (bracing for attacks) "good looking" women look good in any size clothing (unless way undersized) and "not so good looking women" look not so good regarless of the clothing size.

Morally straight has nothing to do with sexuality. Sort of like a Cub Scout - I promise to be "square." It didn't mean I had to be uncool! The problem with the "gay" issue is that it is a self fulfilling prophecy to those who feel being gay is not moral. As for myself, I can't quite understand how "being" anything could be immoral. Now, acting in a certain way could be considered immoral but being gay?

Maybe it's the testosterone in me, maybe the engineer in me but I'd welcome the challenge to beat Mr. Ebay at the race! One thing I pushed our pack to have is an "open" heat (i.e. so Dads could race their cars against other Dads). We let Moms reace but for some unknow reason, they thought we were juvenile. Can't figure that one out! Having the open heat made the overbearing fathers put their emphasis on their own car and not their sons.

My boys wanted to win. So I told them what they needed to do to win - have polished axles, many tricks to reduce friction like ride on three wheels not four, utilize potential energy (make the cg as high as possible which entails making it rearward), etc. They did, they won. The next year they thought it would be easy, heck they won the last year. They came in the middle of the pack. Lesson learned. Did I help them? Yes. Did I build their cars? No.

Do what you want to do for the den meetings. For the pack meetings, advise the pack during a committee meeting that your den will be doing TBD during the upcoming pack meeting. Then put on a skit, do a magic trick, sing a song, demonstrate how to fold a flag or whatever you feel your den would enjoy. My guess is that the rest of the pack would enjoy another den stepping up to the plate.

KC John, just to push buttons, now you know how some folks feel about certain young males that provide cheerful service, have excellent scout skills, are helpful, courteous, brave, clean, etc. but just happen to be gay and wonder why they too can't be the allowed "in" so to speak. I know that if one of these fine young women would like to join the OA and were told well, just go start your own organization or some other blather I wouldn't like that response and I'm assuming you wouldn't either. On a different note, will Pujols become a Royal?

Some are not happy with just 1s and 0s. Some feel more secure with a shiny metallic substance that will neither feed, cloth or house them. Yes, we do live in a strange world. Social security was not set up as an account for individuals to invest in and then get payouts when they got older. Yes, that may be the way some have sold it but that was never the intent. An extremely easy fix to social security is to do what they did to the medical portion - remove the upper limit. My FICA falls to zero sometime after the summer. I wouldn't necessarily appreciate that move but I'm sure politicians would be able to say it only effects the rich and it would be an easy sell.

Flag Etiquetee 101 Stand and Salute the flag when; a) you see it being raised or lowered on a staff, b)you pass it, c) it passes you, and d) when giving the pledge of allegiance, e) during the national anthem. Those in uniform (including Scouts) give the appropriate formal salute. Citizens not in uniform salute by placing their right hand over the heart and men with head cover should remove it and hold it to left shoulder, hand over the heart. Members of organizations in formation salute upon command of the person in charge. Now, what to do when one hears the national anthem but does not see a flag? I admit that when I'm watching television - during a hockey or football game for example, I usually stop talking but I don't stand up in my living room or place a hand over my heart. I did notice during the most recent Superbowl, one of the close-ups of a player showed tears streaming down his cheek. Not sure if that was pride from the anthem, pride in making it to the championship game or simply pain from an injury but it sure played well on TV!

No, BadenP, I don't think you caught the nuance. There is no restriction, directly, excluding female youths from joining OA. If they meet the requirements - 1st Class, camping & Scoutmaster approval and election - they may join. The devil is always in the details and yes, it is very difficult for females to earn 1st Class.

It's semantics but around here the council clearly states that there is not gender requirement for OA. Literally, that is true. However, for a youth, one must earn 1st Class and currently, that is very difficult for females to do.

If the BSA was really worried about eBay, they would flood the market, not restrict it. Accordingly, rank badges are restricted items. Tenderfoot should be no more, no less restricted than Eagle.

In the case of the District Award of Merit and Professional Training Award, the knot is the only wearable insignia. Is a medal associated with the Arrow of Light? I'm not aware of any.