acco40

First, adults wear the red, white and blue knot that signifies that they have earned the Eagle rank in their youth. Second, the ECOH should be about the Eagle recipient. Third, your son asked you to wear it and it is his ECOH so go for it. When my sons received their Eagle awards, I wondered if I should wear the a suit (just be dad for the day) or wear my Scoutmaster uniform and attend primarily as the troop Scoutmaster. I left it up to my sons to decide. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Why on Earth is it customary to sing the national anthem at sporting events? I think it cheapens the effect. Long ago, Earnie Harwell, a very devout man, suggested that Jos Feliciano sing the national anthem for the world series ('68 Tigers/Cardinals). It got a lot of press and 95% was negative. I thought it was great. The next summer, Jimi Hendrix performed the national anthem at Woodstock, essentially to the clean-up crew. Painters paint, singers sing and pop stars sing like pop stars. Some of my favorites were Robert Goulet (gets a pass due to being Canadian) whose singing style was very traditional but he replaced the lyrics "dawn's early light" with "dawn's early night" and was crucified in the press. The best rendition I've ever heard was at the NBA all-star game by Marvin Gaye.

Do these devices work for singers who have difficulty with our national anthem?

As a Cub Scout parent and Den Leader I always wondered why Cub Scout crossovers (not graduations) occur in February. When I became a Scoutmaster, I found out why. I had Cubs crossover into our troop in late February to late April. Our troop was traditional in that it camped once a month and participated in Summer camp in June (I spent 7 Father's Days in a row at summer camp). With a February crossover, that meant the boys would be able to camp in March, April and May before summer camp. For the April crossovers, that left May only. It really helps for the Scouts to have at least 2 weekend outings under their belt before a full week of summer camp with out "gasp" mom or dad accompanying them.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Yeah, but at least Reagan was smart enough (or maybe it was Nancy) to get rid of Regan.

I mean no offense to any forum member or peruser but ... if I knew this was my last day - I wouldn't be spending it posting on this forum! Was that a white lie Basementdweller?

During most of my time as Scoutmaster, my wife was the advancement chair (I've seen official BSA publications with Advancement Chair and Advancement Coordinator). Yes, she was appreciated, I just wish she would have gotten over her computer phobia and learned TroopMaster better!

Should they? No. May they? Yes.

First of all, Cub Scout Dens, nor Cub Scout Packs have Courts of Honor. They hold den meetings and pack meetings. Only Boy Scout troops have Courts of Honor. Arrow of Light is a Cub Scout award (the only one that can be worn on a Boy Scout uniform) and thus should be recognized at a Cub Scout event. Can a 10 year old 5th grader earn Tenderfoot? Not without earning the Arrow of Light (AOL) or by completing the 5th grade. A boy would need to be either 11 years old, or have completed the 5th grade, or earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old. Now what should you do if that happened? Your call. I would remain silent or simply ask the the advancement chair or Scoutmaster what the requirements are for the Scout badge (Scout is not a rank). Now, wrt to dues - a Cub Scout, Boy Scout and Scoutmaster for that matter - all pay the same registration fee to the National Council. Units, set their own "dues" amounts. A Cub Scout Pack and a Boy Scout Troop are different units. I've also known of Cub Scout dens and Boys Scout patrols that set their own dues amounts. For your son to earn Tenderfoot, he first needs to earn the Scout badge (should be a piece of cake if he earned AOL in Cub Scouts). The Scout badge is something like the Bobcat badge in Cub Scouts. Next, after earning the Scout badge, follow in his handbook, the requirements for Tenderfoot. You will see a "show improvement after 30 days" so yes, that can take 30 days as a minimum to complete.(This message has been edited by acco40)

What should a patrol be? A patrol should be a group of peers - a group the boys choose - not the adults. I think that answers your question.

What you will find is that if the vast majority of homes do not contribute anything, the boys will tire quickly. If they have a "giving" rate of 20% or higher (every 5th house or so gives something), they can last quite a long time. I'll never forget my first SFF with my oldest (now Eagle) son when he was a Wolf. His den leader did not do SFF as a den activity just assigned houses to Scouts. So off we went just Dad and son. Well, he looked upon it as a personal failure if a house did not contribute anything and unfortunately we got lots of "not home", "nothing to give", "not interested" types of responses and he was heart broken. As a Scoutmaster, our troop manned the collection center. We boxed and loaded the food that multiple Packs, Troops, Crews and individuals brought in. It was hard work, kept us extremely busy for 8 hours but still, better than door to door work IMO.

Our expectations should be that a Scout is ... even when we know full well that they are not. Our expectation should not be that the boys are given a grace period until 1st Class (or Eagle or whatever) until they need to become trustworthy, etc. Reminds me of a few Scoutmaster Conferences that I've had for Tenderfoot and 2nd Class when the Scouts assure me that they are 'reverent' but when I ask them exactly what that means they really don't have a clue. They just know that is an expectation and they aim to please! (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

acco - (i.e. we cover all expenses including full cost of utilizing council porperty for the weekend) but we don't try to make a profit. Our council camps charge nothing for us to use them for training purposes..What is your council charging you?.. I know if a troop goes to a council camp (own trek, not for summer camp).. It is $3 a head per night.. Is it a simple cost like that or steeper? That's one of my pet peeves. Our council charges the same for us as anyone else. We have a few shelters - a few picnic benches on a concrete slab with a tin roof that cost anywhere from $200 to $400 per weekend. We use them to lay out material for knots, nature, first aid, etc. Also, they come in handy for rain. Heaven forbid we decide to use an actual cabin - that costs something like $500/day. The $2 to $3 per head camping fee isn't the issue. We also have the staff bring a few troop trailers so we have cooking supplies, etc.

Doesn't matter if I was a tub of goo or solid muscle. The BSA did not have a BMI or % body fat requirement, they had a weight for height requirement. A 5'6" 215 lb adult or Scout should not partake in backpacking in a BSA event - period. I stand by my statement above, but maybe I didn't make my point clear. What I meant was that the BSA doesn't have a "how fit are you" requirement, they have a height/weight requirement. Right or wrong, that's what they have. So, if you don't meet it, you should not partake in the event. I agree that there are rare instances of 215 lb folks who are 5'6" who are physically fit but that doesn't mean they meet the BSA guideline.

I'm right between 5'6" and 5'7". For my Double H trek, I had to lose 10 lbs to get down to the 199 lb limit for high adventure (I'm not overweight, I just need to grow a little). Doesn't matter if I was a tub of goo or solid muscle. The BSA did not have a BMI or % body fat requirement, they had a weight for height requirement. A 5'6" 215 lb adult or Scout should not partake in backpacking in a BSA event - period. At summer camp one year I was real busy with merit badge paperwork and all the other activities a Scoutmaster and volunteer camp Commissioner has. On the last full day, our troop performed a service project for the camp. It was hot. So that afternoon, my youngest son, whom I had not had much time to spend with ask me to go swimming with him in the lake. We did. After an hour or so I got out and "youth" Scouter (probably a 18 or 19 year old staff person) who knew me and my position in our troop asked me, while looking me right in the eye, if anyone from troop XX was at the waterfront. I said yes (later he told me they are not supposed to state names on the radio or publically) and he told me I had to get to my camp site ASAP. What awaits me there I thought to myself. Did I forget to sign a MB card? Did some boy have an accident? I was about a mile walk away so off I went on a brisk walk. Well at about 200 yds away I can see a crowd at the camp site. At 100 yds I see an ambulance! Oh no, what Scout got hurt? Well, it wasn't a Scout, it was one of my SAs. He was overweight, drinking Mountain Dew all day, on anti-biotics, ... He had classic heat stroke. He is usually a jovial fellow and his mood changed. He felt nauseated. His fellow SAs took him to the showers and ran cold water on him. He vomited in the shower. They walked him back to camp, put him in a chair in the shade with a wet cold towel around his neck. They did everything (except pump him full of fluids!). Right after I got there the ambulance took him away and after a few hours in an air conditioned hospital and having fluids (via an IV) put in - he was as good as new. Moral of the story - I was very, very concerned about dehydration, heat stroke/exhaustion, etc. for the Scout all week. Made them take water everywhere. Kept a close eye on them, etc. What I didn't think I needed to do was the same for the adults. Live and learn.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I have a different take. If you are visiting troops with your son, you are not functioning in a Cubmaster role - therefore, no need to wear the uniform. When my oldest son was in a troop and I was a Cub Scout Den leader, I did not wear my uniform to the troop COHs. I was just "Dad." Our council holds an annual Eagle Scout (and Venturing Silver) Award dinner every year and asks for "sponsors" to pay for the dinner for themselves and for a Scout. The sponsor should be a business leader who introduces the Scout to a career field of the Scout's choosing. When I attend that function as a sponsor each year, I wear a suit and tie - not my Scoutmaster or Unit Commissioner uniform. A suit and tie is uniform for my function at this event. Now, no big faux pas either way in my book.

Our Pack did custom arrows (wife was CC) for each Scout earning AOL with "proper" markings - rank, arrow points, etc. I've noticed many Packs combine the AOL ceremony with a cross over ceremony. Some parents don't quite get the fact that the Scouts cross over to Boy Scouts or they don't cross over at all. It is not a "graduation" ceremony. We made each ceremony distinct so those who received AOL but were not continuing with Scouting could be recognized and not lump the two together.

Our council expects a profit from training classes such as IOLS. The volunteers who organize and put on the training, make sure the council does not lose money (i.e. we cover all expenses including full cost of utilizing council property for the weekend) but we don't try to make a profit. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

The parents of the scout. The only time this in not the case is when it is a single parent.

I get what you are saying but be careful in your statements. I for my part think that getting drunk or high are some of the most irresponsible things a person can do, because by doing so you voluntarily give up your ability to engage in right reasoning. So, if going in for open heart surgery you would decline anesthesia? Drinking, by itself, is no sin in my book, but drunkenness most certainly is. No magic amount of alcohol suddenly causes inebriation. A little causes a little and a lot causes a lot so to speak. Like the old joke of "would you do it for $1,000,000,000? Yes. Would you do it for 50 cents? What kind of woman do you think I am? Well, we've already established that, we are just negotiating the price. I am not condoning drug use or alcohol use but I think as a country we are phobic. Some say praying has the same effect - one places trust in a higher power and "gives up" right reasoning. Folks self medicate in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons and we should be looking to help, not punish in my view. Some turn to religion, gambling, the bottle, cocaine, heroin, etc. Heck, I'm guilty of burying myself in my work sometimes as a way to escape other "things." Yes, being a work-a-holic is more socially acceptable but does cause harm to others just like gambling and drug use. I do agree with your conclusion, I would need to know the circumstances, I would need to know how he reacted, what he thought, etc. That's really the crux of the problem.

If adults are assigning ANY roles then you have a much bigger problem. Once again, another myth. First of all, for all youth positions, the Scoutmaster first grants approval for the Scout to be eligible. This should be done before elections, not after. Furthermore, 1) Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster is appointed by the Scoutmaster. 2) Den Chief is appointed by the Scoutmaster (in concert with Cubmaster & Den Leader). 3) Instructor is appointed by the Scoutmaster. 4) Troop Guide is appointed by the Scoutmaster.

Proof or no proof, what part of the Scout Law or Oath does "when i step up to tell the truth everyone turn against me" fall into? Why do you think folks feel that way about you? There's a difference between "that cheating, no good scoundrel stole our popcorn funds" and "excuse me, but our popcorn balance doesn't seem to make sense to me, could you please explain the finances?"

Innocent and guilty are legal terms. If I get mistakenly identified as a bank robber and a jury convicts me of the crime - I'm guilty. Doesn't matter if I robbed the bank or not - by definintion, I'm guilty if convicted by a jury of my peers. So, for a Scout I wouldn't wait for a judicial decision before making my own. John-in-KC, so I would agree with everything you stated in #2 on but not necessarily #1. Not because I think the Scout may be wrongly convicted (rare) but they could easily be considered "innocent" and still have done a "bad" thing. I would try and make the determination in the Scout arena, not legal arena.

Applications should be prorated. I've seen no issues with not reregistering in mid-year for a Scout who turns 18. Now, if he takes on an adult role - SA, Troop Committee, etc. he would need to register but that should only be $1 transfer fee. Registration for an adult or a youth is the same fee. Think of it this way, if your son will turn 18 on June 30th, do you think the BSA would let you charter your son for only six months and only pay 50% of the registration fee?

I respect all the opinions given in this thread but I have a question for those who propose "timing" may be of importance. Many (John-in-KC, skeptic, etc.) are advocating a "not now but if he demonstrates ... in his daily life" maybe later. Why? What's the time limit? I can see a waiting period of some sort but I would not make it open ended and I would properly convey the time - in concrete terms, not in an obtuse manner - to the Scout. Children of that age don't do well with "until you show better judgment" types of conditions. I think most of us feel we would really have to know the Scout in question before we made a decision. I'm also troubled by the "if he got caught, he must have been doing quite frequently" type of rationalization. I don't think we have the liberty to make these type judgments if we are SMs or BOR members.