acco40

There is no BSA rule or requirement that an outing must end if an adult has to leave. Note: Bold type denotes rules and policies. ■Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. Seems fairly clear to me that there is a "rule" about covering such a situation. If two adults are present initially and one leaves, the requirement is no longer satisfied, hence outing / trip should cease.

I believe much depends on the Scout in question. Scouts cheat on tests, get girls pregnant, drink alcohol under age, take illegan drugs, lie, etc. - so does a vast majority of the population. I don't condone that type of behavior but I don't think it is fair to expect perfection either. I the Scout willing to get help (if needed)? Is he combative to authority? Did he slip up just once? To me, this in and of itself, is not a show stopper. How he responds to the incident will reflect on his character. Underage drinking is an issue. The fact that he got into legal trouble because of it - to me - does not make it more of an issue. Another thing to look at, in my judgment, is if the Scout does show improve judgment and character going forward, will the awarding of the Eagle rank help or hurt this individual?

My college roommate, one of my best friends, died of melanoma two years ago. He was only 52 and otherwise in perfect health. He had a small biopsy from his back about 20 years ago and when rechecked a month or so later was given a clean bill of health. The doctors now say they goofed, didn't get it all and his immune system was fighting it for about 15 years before he had any symptoms (brain tumor). He was my first exposure to Boy Scouts - camping at 18 year olds I thought he was nuts trying to set up a three pan dishwashing system. What a tragic loss of life.

FScouter, a defense of "I used common sense" won't fly if one adult is left with the troop because the only other adult took a Scout home. Common sense states to not rely on only two adults. If one does, if one adult has to leave, the outing should come to an end.

Let me ramble on a bit please. 1) My first summer camp I was an inexperienced SA, who's oldest son, a Star Scout, was going through his second summer camp. Well, here I am in my mid-forty's, middle age physique, etc. getting ready to take my swim test in the lake. I'm surprised to see a very attractive, blonde, female (guessing around 18) as my instructor. Well, the male ego has to show that this SA doesn't tire, can swim perfectly, etc. Needless to say, I had no problem passing the test but yes, the last few yards I did have to catch my breath (pacing was horrible on my part). So having female staff can be dangerous - but not the fault of the female staff. 2) We've attended the DIBC (Dorchester International Brotherhood Camporee) in London, Ontario numerous times. The ratio is about 50/50 with Scouts Canada and the BSA participants. Scouts Canada is 100% co-ed and that comes to a shock for those who are not used to it - like the 15-17 year old BSA scouts! They acted like star struck puppies! I had to chuckle. Their behavior was exemplary and I've never seen the eleventh point of the Scout Law adhered to so stridently. 3) As for using our service men and women as "staff" - I'd love it! Keep in mind that many of the soldiers are only of few years older than the Scouts. Also, keep in mind that they belong to an organisation, the US Army for example, that doesn't exactly have YPT, discipline and other such things as the BSA. Their training techniques are a little different that what is used by the BSA. The Scouts know full well that I, as Scoutmaster, is not exactly someone to be feared such as a high school assistant principal (or was that only 40 yrs ago when I was in school?), drill sargeant, commanding officer, etc. I never grinned so broadly when at the National Jamboree in 2005, I politely asked a group of Scouts (who did not know me from Adam) to move over to the right side of the road. They all mumbled something under their breath and meandered about a foot more to the right for a couple of yards but then meandered back taking up 90% of the path. Well about a quarter of a mile further a young private, in uniform, with an M16 rifle on his shoulder, shouted out to the boys, not with profanity but close, something like You pukes get the hell over now, you are blocking traffic! Well it got their attention. (This message has been edited by acco40)

Testicular cancer is one of those rare diseases that is not an "infant" or "child" cancer and is not a malady for seniors either. It is, as the poster suggested, most common between puberty and mid-30s. Most common age is mid-20s. I am a MBC for Personal Fitness. Part of that badge is to know the warning signs of cancer - all of them. Also, counselors may add "more" information that just is what is in the pamphlets. This is and appropriate topic during the interaction between the MBC and Scout for this MB.

Two-deep leadership is not required for everything in Scouts. For example, one may hold a den meeting with just the den leader (adult) and Cub Scouts (youth) present. However, for trips and outings, two-deep leadership is required. So, if a Scout needs to be taken out, for whatever reason, the trip or outing comes to an end if two-deep leadership cannot be maintained. Additionally, don't have a one-on-one adult to scout during transportation of the ill scout to the home or medical facility. That's one reason that I, as a unit leader, required a minimum of three adults for an outing. On the rare occasions, I would allow only two adults, myself included, if parents understood that they needed to be "on call" to pick up their son(s) due to illness, emergencies, behavior, etc.

A wise Committee Chair recognizes the fact that nobody gets to vote on the committee. They will try to lead by consensus. But yes, a Scoutmaster is not a committee member nor a BOR member (for his troop). Yes, some troop may make squirrels committee members, non-registered parents of Scouts or even Scoutmasters but that doesn't mean they are supposed to.(This message has been edited by acco40)

4 boys, let me tell you the story of 2 dogs. Oops, I'll leave that for another day. Welcome. Keep the enthusiasm of youth going in your boys.

You learn fast!

Beavah - Despite our protestations to the contrary, that's still da purpose of uniforming, eh? To distinguish between people. The BSA states just the opposite. They push uniforms so the Scouts are "uniform" - just like many schools do. They don't want the less materially blessed Scout to feel inadequate for the more materially blessed. (Late apologies to the Chaister. Didn't see your post before I typed mine.) John in KC - Mexican Generals? I don't set my sights that low! Nothing but the Panamanian General look will do for me. Eagles 83 & 92 - Isn't part of the GS of USA mission to teach them to be fashionistas so the "uniform" doesn't help in that regard. (This message has been edited by acco40)

A congressional charter is a law passed by the United States Congress that states the mission, authority and activities of a group. Congress issued federal charters from 1791 until 1992 under Title 36 of the United States Code. The relationship between Congress and the organization is largely a symbolic honorific giving the organization the aura of being "officially" sanctioned by the U.S. government. However Congress does not oversee or supervise organizations with the charter (other than receiving a yearly financial statement). In order to clarify that the chartered organizations are not government entities and not supervised by the government both the House and the Senate in 1990s agreed not to issue additional charters. (I saw this on the internet so it must be true!) So, Kudu, stating that the BSA "violates" a Congressional charter is somewhat of an empty statement.

One year, a group of Webelos wanted to join our troop. One of the boys was very young for his grade. He had not earned AOL and was not 11 nor finished the 5th grade. So I had him "join" the troop - officially he was a visiting Webelos - and then he formally joined as soon as he "graduated" from 5th grade. I talked to his parents about it and they were cool with it. I think the boys and vast majority of parents didn't really notice the difference. I let him work on requirements but didn't sign off until he finished the 5th grade. It all worked out well.

This question appears in this forum every year about this time (January-February). For the life of me, I don't see why this is confusing. 1) Webelos (not an acronym according to the BSA) is the correct term. It is not a "plural" word. There are no singular Webelo Scouts. There are not Webeloes either. One may have one Webelos Scout or two or more Webelos Scouts. 2) There is an age requirement. One must be 11, or one may be 10 if a) completed 5th grade or b) earned AOL. Stated with more clarity: A Boy who has earned the Arrow of Light or completed the 5th grade must ALSO be at least 10 years old before he can join a Boy Scout Troop. One must be younger than 18. So, as far as age goes: no 9 year olds, some 10 year olds and all 11-17 year olds may join.

I like the "newbie" posts that go something like this ... Q) Should I organize patrols by age/peer group or have a full span of ages - 11-17 when organizing patrols within a troop? A) Organize by age/peer group (says the vast majority). Newbie then responds - "No, I don't think that is correct. I think one should organize by ..." In other words, they ask a question, a response is given and then they rebut that response. They were not really looking for an answer but looking for confirmation on what they already believe and if that confirmation doesn't happen - look out! Now, is there such a thing as a stupid question? Yes! (There are stupid answers too!)

Don't forget that the BSA is a business. Cub Scouts offer a very lucrative cash flow. Marketing has shown that interest wanes as the boys get older so the whole program - Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts keep gravitating to younger aged boys. Any program that accepts 11 year olds is going to have issues retaining 16 & 17 year olds. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Conversely, now matter how lame-brained an idea, it someone posts it here, someone else will support it too!

For Scouts of the the more mature ages (14 - 17) I've told them that certain activities are restricted in the BSA but if they want to pursue them outside of troop, I wasn't going to prevent it. Get your parents permission, plan it, I'll review the plans if requested and then go forth and prosper. I would make it clear to all involved that it was not a Scouting activity (no tour permit, no uniforms, no troop trailer, etc.) but nothing about it was illegal in any way. They boys took that approach for a fireworks event (adult lit fireworks, private property, etc.), laser tag event, etc. It worked for us and I don't fault the BSA for their approach either.

One of our district commissioners started a Webelos Transition day about 6 years ago that I think has proven successful. The Webelos and their parents sign up for the event which is held on a Saturday morning in a local park. With the help of troop volunteers, district troops man several stations and the Webelos are arranged into dens and rotate amongst the different stations learning basic T123 skills taught by Boy Scouts. The parents get a chance to "smooze" the different troop leaders and ask specific questions about troops or general questions about Boy Scouts. Later a lunch is served. This replaced a "meet the troops night" that was intially organized for Webelos leaders to meet various troops but the event showed a declining interest - from both troops and Webelos - year after year.

We are an organization of volunteers. Keep the following things in mind. 1) As a trainer, we have an audience of folks that run the gamut of not having finished high school to some who have multiple graduate degrees. 2) For many folks, Scouting is a social event and sometimes they get a little long winded with stories and such - this applies to the students and trainers. Others, see training as a "have to" and want to get it out of the way/over as soon as possible. 3) Trainers are volunteers like everyone else. Some are good, some bad, some excellent. If you are a student for a training session, please provide constructive feedback about the trainers - good and bad. 4) If you see a problem with the training, be a part of the solution. Volunteer to help in a future training session. Good course directors should always be in the habit of screening course "takers" as possible future course "givers." 5) Training isn't magical. It's one thing to "know the rules" and another to follow them. Look at many of the posts on this forum - they state that they know the "rules" but purposely feel they don't need to follow them rationalizing that they have the Scouts interest at heart when they choose not to follow the program. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Be proud. It means a lot to you now. It will grow in importance for your son. -Kurt

Does cheese head strike a nerve? I think a show with primarily Jewish writers used coined the phrase "Soup Nazi" and the fact that WWII is now 55 years in the past has lessened the pain some feel with the term but yes, it is still provocative. My mother related a funny (to me) story to me. In the late 50's when my brother and I were about 2 & 3 years old, we moved from Baltimore to Kansas. Back then the "races" were kept much more separated than they are today. One of the moving folks was a black man, which I'm guessing neither my brother or I had never seen up close and he was rather dark complected. Well, my brother proclaimed, "Look, a monkey!" He was not picking up ideas from our parents, nor making a derogatory statement in his eyes. Well, my mother was embarrassed as all get out. She took my brother aside and explained to us that some folks are "pink" like us (both my brother, mother and I have red hair and yes, we are pink, not white) and some people are brown like the moving man. Okay, no big deal. Well, the gentleman moving us thought that was hilarious, he never heard of pink/brown but always black/white. Fast forward to my life as a five year old, now living is southern Arizona (yes, I moved around quite a bit in my youth). My neighbor was Mexican. One of my good friends was black. I remember we liked playing in his screened in backyard porch. Anyway, one day we went inside for some reason and I was shocked. Not knowing anything about genetics but having a firm grip on statistics, I noticed that not only was he a black person (looked very different than the majority of folks I interfaced with) but so was his sister, mother, aunts, uncles, grandparents - my gosh his whole family! What are the odds of that happening? Yes, it was a much more innocent time back then.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Not sure how what I stated originally got construed to "warm body." I assume that if a Scout has a skill requirement "signed off" he already has at least a rudimentary proficiency. Becoming proficient is just like the way to Carnigie Hall - practice, practice practice.

Some of the same folks who are touting "proficiency" in first aid are stating they only want "improvement" in the health initiative thread. That seems contradictory to me.

I have no issue with a drunk telling me it is not wise to drink too much. I have no issue with a 350 lb cardiologist telling me I need to lose weight, reduce salt intake, etc. to obtain better cardiovascular health. I have no issue with a dietician who eats to much chocolate to inform me of healthy food choices. I do have an issue with being at a long term scout camp during a heat wave and trying to keep the kids well hydrated and their main liquid choices are Mountain Dew, Coke and Pepsi. I had an Assistant Scoutmaster hospitalized with heat stroke - he was overweight, out in the hot sun, on an antibiotic regimen, drank caffinated pop, etc. As Scoutmaster, I required the Scouts to only leave camp if they had a water bottle filled with water. I couldn't make them drink, but I did make them carry. I wasn't so anal with the adults and maybe I should have been.