acco40

but the CC has more power cause they CAN replace the SM/CM with approval of the COR. Please back this up. One of the responsibilities of the committee is to see that good leaders are recruited and trained. The committee may not remove leaders. The committee, the Scoutmaster or complete strangers may lobby the charter organization to remove adults leaders but only the charter organization may do so.

I agree, if a unit is struggling with "who's the boss" the unit is doomed. I don't disagree with you providing, as acourtesy to the committee, your ideas for program. That helps grease the wheel for getting their support. However, I do feel that it was a courtesy, not mandatory. It is not the committee's responsibility to approve or disapprove the program that the youth, in conjunction with your guidance, develop. The only extent of their approval/disapproval is to make sure you are carrying out the policies and regulations of the BSA. I had a great relationship with our CC. I used to tease him and state that during the annual planning meeting, the youth leaders decided that we would be going to summer camp at Camp Pupukea in February and it was the committee's responsibility to support that decision and make that happen. It just so happens, by coincidence, that this Michigan resident found the idea of spending time in Oahu during the winter a sound decision.

Boards of Review for Tenderfoot through Life ranks should consist of not more than three and not more than six troop committee members - period. If you don't have three committee members - you can't be a troop! So I don't understand the new caveat that was added In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who understand Boy Scoutings aims. So, may you serve on the BOR as a unit commissioner for that unit? Only if you were a committee member for that unit too.(This message has been edited by acco40)

A key distinction should be made in my book. I feel it is inappropriate to do this during a troop meeting because at a troop meeting, the activity should involve everyone. That's why I didn't do Scoutmaster conferences during troop meetings. Would I have done it during the outing? No. What I would have done is to have the SPL conduct the troop meeting as usual, and then, during the closing ceremony, announce to all that those who had found all the markers stick around for ice cream and to review photos of the outing. That would not be cruel and would provide encouragement to those who did not attend the outing and to those who attended the outing and did not attend the troop meeting to change their evil ways.

I was a Tiger, Wolf, Bear and Webelos den leader. It seemed the more effort I put into some den meetings, the less interesting it was for the boys. Some of the most spurious events I dreamed up were the best. I was also a unit commissioner for some time. When packs would hold a join scouting night, I would talk very briefly to the pack adult leadership (beforehand) and then let them meet with the parents and I'd watch the boys. Simple things like pairing up two or a maximum of four boys (two to a side) and placing a ping pong ball on a hard surface table and then telling them to try and blow it across the the opposite end to "win." They would sit there and play that simple game again and again. The game was quick (usually over in less than 30 sec.), kept them active and of course you can't talk much when you are concentrating on blowing! Also, I had some issues with the other den leaders and pack committee members. They always seemed to be in the mood to essentially pay for entertainment at a pack meeting. At one pack meeting, my Webelos Den put on a skit (it involved one Tiger Cub too). The boys practiced at a den meeting and it kept the interest of the pack. The boys should be doing at pack meetings, not observing at pack meetings. Heck, as a Bear den leader I was bored listening to the Tiger and Wolf den leaders tell the pack about what activities they did last month and about the awards the boys in their den earned.

Shoulder loops, shoulder loops, shoulder loops! Not epaulets, not tabs. Sorry, a pet peeve of mine.

Not to be argumentative, but I've seen many folks state But by the book, he answers to the Committee Chair who is actually over the whole shooting match at the unit level. Maybe it's the Scoutmaster in me but I've never interpreted any BSA book to state such. The troop committee does it's "thing" on behalf of the chartered organization. The chartered organization approves all adult leaders. The troop committee's primary responsibility is to support the Scoutmaster in delivering a quality troop program. The committee is supposed to make sure quality adult leaders are recruited and trained. Of course the committee chair is the committee organizer. I see nothing that state a Scoutmaster "reports" to the committee chair. Of course the CC does not report to the Scoutmaster either. Also, neither has the authority to remove the other from the unit. Now, which is the most important adult position? I think if the unit has problematic adults, the CC. If the unit has more problematic youth, the SM.

A troop should do what works for them but I feel strongly that the Scoutmaster should make every effort to attend all troop outings. The primary purpose of the Scoutmaster is to train and guide the boy leaders as well as be the key "youth facing" adult in the troop. That's hard to do if one is not present on troop outings. Yes, a good Scoutmaster delegates and also helps to train his successor (though it is not his job to choose his successor). (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

If the lodges you are associated with have "too much" adult involvement - why not do something about it? In our lodge, the boys said it was the adults job to determine if they wanted fries or onions rings with their meals. Every other decision was up to the youth.

I way expecting Fat Albert but I guess your were one "hey" short. Yes, welcome. One of my fondest memories as an adult with boys in Cub Scouts was the second year they worked on the Pinewood Derby. The first year brought back some memories to me but somethings didn't seem quite right. The next year, one of the fathers brought a mid-1960's vintage Pinewood Derby car and that brought back the memories more clearly. P.S. My Cub Scout uniform was much, much better than they are today. I'd kill to get one of those hats today.

Cub Scouts is grade based, not age based. Therefore, calendar dates are meaningless. The real question becomes what grade is a boy in the summer? For example, does the next grade take effect after the last day of school or the first day of school? It really doesn't matter because to earn Bear, one does not have to have earned Wolf. When I was a den leader, I tried to make sure they completed their rank requirements before the end of the school year. However, I had one rare case where a boy did not and I told him I would let him complete the rank requirements that summer. As a den, we were active all year round. P.S. Yes, I know that an eight year old kindergarten student can become a Wolf but let's don't go there.

BadenP - Boy Scout Troops are to be no more adult led than OA lodges so I don't get your reasoning. What is the reason for nominating an adult to the OA? It is only when the adult's job in the troop will make Order of the Arrow membership more meaningful in the lives of the youth membership. It must not be for the purpose of adult recognition. So if your local OA lodge is being hindered by the adults in the lodge, they must be selecting the wrong folks. When I was selected to join the Order of the Arrow, it was because I met the minimal requirements and as Scoutmaster, I promoted the Order, drove Scouts to OA meetings, performed service when requested and also I hope because I could serve as a good role model. I've never attended, nor needed to attend, any of the monthly OA meetings. That was for the boys. I did attend some conclaves and stayed way out of the way - my presence was mostly to provide service and to congratulate ordeal & brotherhood candidates.

Okay folks, consider this analogy. I think Wood Badge is a great training experience and has many other benefits as well. I feel I should promote it and therefore wear my "critter" regalia, neckerchief, beads, etc. to every Scouting event I attend. What is the reaction I get? Well, some folks are curious and ask about it. Some, usually fellow Wood Badgers may ask if I attended "real" or 21st Century Wood Badge. A large percentage don't say anything to me but respond to their peers or think to themselves - what a showoff, does he think he is better than us? To me the OA is a service organization primarily, not an honorary society. FYI, from the Order of the Arrow Chair himself Ask the Chairman Q. When should the OA sash be worn? A. Your OA sash, wear it at OA events and when you represent the OA, over the right shoulder, never over the belt. The Order of the Arrow Sash is the outward manifestation of the OA founding ideals: Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service. The rule of thumb is its appropriate to wear the sash is when you are doing official Order of the Arrow business or attend an Order of the Arrow ceremony. We wear the sash as a symbol of an ideal, it is not a rank, and it is not an item to "show off" your honor. Examples of inappropriate times to wear the OA sash: Troop Meetings Campouts Courts of Honor Trainings such as NYLT, Woodbadge, Den Chief Training, IOLS, BALOO FOS Presentations The only acceptation to these is you are representing the Order of the Arrow in an Official capacity. Examples of appropriate times to wear the OA sash: Unit Election Lodge Fellowship Chapter Meeting Lodge Meeting Winter Banquet Section Conclave OA Training Event The OA sash should always be worn over the right shoulder; it is not appropriate to wear the sash on your belt, as a neck tie, as a head band, or at the same time as a merit badge sash.

Early on in my Scoutmaster "career" I took the family to Philmont as I took the Strictly for Scoutmasters course at the Philmont Training Center. One of the things that surprised me was that out of a class of 52 Scoutmasters from across the country, only about 15% felt it was the Scoutmasters responsibility to go on every outing, attend every troop meeting, etc. I'm not say they had to go but that in about 85% of the troops, the outing "Scoutmaster" was rotated around the various Assistant Scoutmasters and the Scoutmaster himself. Personally, I think it is important that a singular adult (the Scoutmaster) be the overwhelming "go to guy" for the Scouts on outings if at all possible, but hey, do what works for your unit.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I'd suggest you read The Scoutmaster Handbook and concentrate on annual planning. Then, talk with the Scoutmaster, outside of a troop meeting, and volunteer to become an SA (Assistant Scoutmaster) and suggest you could aid in the annual planning process.

BadenP - my answer was simplistic because the answer is simple. I'm troubled by the all too familiar Scouter.com post that goes something like this: The BSA states that A but I've witnessed B. Does your council/district/troop do B? Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right. Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple.

I'm in the same camp as Fred. The only time I've refused to allow the Scout to take a merit badge, by not giving him MBC contact information, is if for example he wanted to take Lifesaving but had not earned the swimming merit badge. I've suggested to a handful of scouts (for example a newly crossed over 10 year old who wanted to take the Engineering Merit Badge) that possibly it was not the correct time. But hey, if he was adamant with pursuing it, I'd support that decision.

Outings are more fun when attendance is high. Attendance is high when outings are fun. So, you need to work hard to reach critical mass. Get the Scouts involved into choosing what they would like to do. Get the parents involved in supporting what the boys want. It does take effort.

Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn at OA events only. Merit Badge and Order of the Arrow sashes are not to be worn on the belt, as a head band, as suspenders, etc. Do some condone bad behavior? Yes. Does that make it right? No.

1) The merit badge counselors cited have done nothing incorrect. 2) "People are upset with the MBCs" - who cares? The Scoutmaster should be the only screening process for the troop wrt MBCs. 3) Yes, when a merit badge requirement states "tell", "demonstrate", "write", etc. the Scout should do exactly that - tell, demonstrate and write. Now, as a MBC I'd get gut feels for when a Scout met the requirement and when I thought possibly it was his mother that met the requirement! So, sometimes he'd show up with merit badge worksheets all filled out - typed - and I'd take them from him and repeat the requirement. For example, I was a MBC for coin collecting and I would ask the scout to explain these the following: obverse, reverse, reeding, clad, type set and date set without the aid of his worksheets. Some could not - they just wanted to read the worksheet. Was that adding to the requirements? Not in my opinion.

One of the most memorable moments that I had in Scouting was when I was at Double H ranch in New Mexico and four of us went for a hike up a mountain. About half way up, I parked myself down in the foothills, took off my hiking boots and relaxed to a fantastic vista as the other three continued their climb. In about ten minutes I thought something very strange was happening and then it hit me - no bugs, no birds, no cars, no humans, no wind through the trees, no running river, no aircraft, no electronic audio - pure silence! I have to say, it was the only time in my life that I had that experience and it was strange - but enjoyable. Now, I love my iPod and took it on outings - and I was the Scoutmaster. My "rule" was that I didn't want to see the device in camp. So, feel free to have it in your tent but Scouting is not a lone activity and while I think there is nothing inherently wrong with such devices, it does tend to be distracting and Scouts do lose focus on the activity at hand sometimes. Double H High Adventure Base, located on the Plains of San Agustin near Datil, New Mexico, was a satellite program base of the Boy Scouts of America's (BSA) Philmont Scout Ranch from 2004 to 2009. With no established trail system, and no naturally occurring surface water, the Double H is considered by many to be a true rugged, southwestern experience. Crews were given opportunities to hike through canyons, navigate cross-country using a map and compass. Scouts will also get the opportunity to use a GPS device while Geocaching. Base camp was located at over 7,000 feet. Significant elevation changes occur as crews hike through the open ponderosa forest and participate in the program. In addition to ponderosa forests, participants had the opportunity to see many varieties of cacti, pinon trees, juniper trees and elk.

Attend a minimum of two overnight campouts without a helicopter parent present.

When my oldest son was in Cub Scouts (I was not the den leader) one of his fellow den mates had divorced parents who had restraining orders against each other. They also had some sort of joint custody or visitation decree. The leaders were held responsible, by the parents, to make sure only the proper parent picked up the boy - something that I think was grossly unfair to the den leader. Again, not a youth protection issue in the literal sense.

Our council "fronts" popcorn to units. I think a unit should "front" the corn to families that show an interest in fundraising. Some level of trust is not a bad thing.

Troop trailers are nice to haul patrol boxes, patrol coolers, propane & lamps, etc. Our troop has one. We also have a large dining fly that we set up as sort of a communal/troop meeting place for certain outings. It takes at least 10-12 boys to set up and take down so I always let the SPL decide if they want to deploy it or not. It is nice to have when it rains. Having a trailer alleviates patrols (i.e. someones car) to having to carry these items but it places a big burden on the trailer hauler (who we offer to reimburse for gas). Having a trailer also makes the patrols somewhat more lazy in their planning and does bring a slight detriment to patrol camping. One of the reasons I like backpacking is not trailer is needed!