acco40

I wish the Government would issue something besides the SSN for identification purposes. Driver's licenses should be used for driving only, not check cashing, identification, etc. SSN's should be use by the Social Security System only. If everyone is clamoring for some type of identification, the Government should issue a national identification card. That said, one of the Packs that I serve as UC for is chartered by a Catholic church. They require ALL adults who come into contact with the boys (i.e. all leaders, all parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.) to submit a background check application. This is a diocese rule. I guess they have had their fill of lawsuits. I've also had some of the parents in our troop balk at giving health history information, driver's license and insurance information (need so I can file a tour permit), etc. Yes it does amaze me that they entrust me to take care of their son for a week at a time but hesitate to share his medical history with me.

As a friend tactfully pointed out (and it is too late to edit) DL should be PL and DC is den chief in this regard althoughthe "official" acronym for district commissioner is DC. Thanks NJ.

Every Scout can be a den chief? I disagree. He should be an older experienced Boy Scout selected by the Scoutmaster and get this - the Senior Patrol Leader and requested by an adult Cub Scout leader. The qualifications that are highly desired include 1st Class rank and former participation as a Cub Scout. If a boy came up to me (a SM) and expressed an interest in becoming a den chief I would consult with the SPL and think long and hard about the qualifications of that individual. Too many SMs look at the DC position as a training ground for their (the troops) future junior leaders. The Packs of course want the best junior leaders in the troop as DC, typically the SM "saves" them for the SPL and DL positions.

How big is your troop? With senior patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader(s), patrol leader, den chief, OA representative, bugler, instructor(s), troop guide(s), chaplain aide, scribe, librarian, historian, jr. assistant scoutmaster(s), and a scoutmaster assigned position can you honestly say that "all were taken"?

Pardon my French but screw the parents! Why not have your husband (the SM) ask the PLC during its next meeting, how they would like to handle the situation? They are the ones, with adult guidance, that need to handle the situation.

Merlyn, No fair, quit using logic on us! While almost everyone acknowledges thatthe BSA is a private organization, in my book it still is a quasi-public organization but I admit that is a minority viewpoint. By the way, did you happen to see the PBS television show The Question of God: Why Freud & Lewis? I found it interesting.

I had a den mother, my sons had den leaders. "Traditional values" used to mean adult males were unfit to be den leaders and adult females were unfit to be Pack leaders, specifically the Cubmaster. Things have changed for the better. I agree with most of the advice. You are the den leader, run it the way you want (within the bounds of the BSA). At the Wolf level, both you and the parents may act as "Akela." Please remember that Cub Scouts is a FAMILY program. The parents should be involved (much more so than Boy Scouts). Now, the following worked for me when I was a den leader. I told the parents that I would cover, via den meetings and field trips, about half of the requirements in the book and outlined which ones from day 1. If their son wanted to advance further, they would need to cover the remaining requirements. Many of the requirements at this level can ONLY be covered by the family. Good luck and have fun and not to sound like a broken record but GET TRAINED ASAP! P.S. Cub Scouts can earn a special badge affilitated with their state. I assume this is nation wide. See below for the qualifications for the Michigan badge. I'm guessing for the Texas badge they teach how to be arrogant and minutia about the Alamo and for New York - well I'm in enough hot water with Texans now! (Calm down everyone. It was typed in jest!) 1. Qualifications Be an active Cub Scout or Webelos who is registered in a Michigan Pack. 2. State Symbols a. Name the State bird, State flower, State tree and State stone. Draw the State flag. b. What is the State Motto and why is it unique to the State of Michigan? 3. State History a. What city was claimed by both Michigan and Ohio, delaying statehood? When did Michigan enter the Union? b. Name a famous Michiganian. Tell why that person is famous, and what you like or dislike about him or her. c. Visit an historical place in Michigan. Tell about the important events, which happened there. 4. State Culture a. Read a story about any Michigan subject (fiction or non- fiction). Tell what you have learned from the story. b. Tell about the history and customs of Native Americans who lived in Michigan near your community. Important If you have already done any of these requirements for another Cub Scout or Webelos award, you must do something different for the Michigan Badge. For example, if you visited an historical place for another award, you should visit a different historical place for the Michigan Badge.(This message has been edited by acco40)

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Guys, I think you are going off the deep end. If you state that the definintion of a quality leader is one who creates a quality program then yes, no argument, a quality leader is needed.

Yes, the Committee should either approve or disapprove the plan, not alter it. Ideally, what the PLC should have done is annual planning and have the whole years events approved or not by the committee. Then, when specifics for yor December outing come up, the committees job is to "make it happen" from a financial point of view. It should support the troop, not be a road block.

I don't condone drinking but ... Let's take the same situation only instead of drinking the driver 1) didn't get much sleep and is not well rested, or 2) is planning on driving over the recommended time/distance level "advised" on the tour permit. What do you do? Far more accidents in Scouting occur because of mental fatigue and not alcohol (I have no facts to back this up, just heresay). Something to keep in mind!

Here is how I get patches sewn on uniform shirts. "Son, I'll get the needle and thread for you." It really is that simple.

scoutldr got it right (the short answer would have been "no." Just remember, "beyond the Eagle rank" means in addition to what was required for Eagle, not earned after obtaining the Eagle rank (or award). It is the same for all ranks. Heck, a boy could earn all of his MBs before he earns his Scout badge (not rank) for that matter.(This message has been edited by acco40)

For a service project, maybe during the next election they can monitor voting and assist seniors on how to punch ballot cards.

Thanks for the kudos but most of the "thoughts" were from others. I just acted as an editor. Now, about the uniform IHU. Regardless of what you feel about the cloth itself, you must love what the uniform represents. I know I do. In fact, after our weekend campout two days ago I was driving home. At our reflection at the end of the outing I noticed that only four out of eleven boys were dressed in their field uniform. Those who were not in their field uniform were not in their activity uniform either. I reiterated our troop expectation that we travel to and from outings in our field uniform and why. I was carrying four Scouts in my van and was rushing (but obeying the speed limit of course) home so that one of the Scouts could make his afternoon hockey game on time. When exiting the highway I came upon a red light at the intersection to a rural road. No cars to my right and two cars to my left, some distance away so after slowing down I made a right turn on red. Well, one of the cars was a county policeman and he pulled up behind me turned on his lights and I pulled over. He asked if I knew why I was being pulled over and I told him yes, I "ran" the red light. He asked me where I was going (why do the police always ask that now?) and I told him I was trying to get on of the boys home on time for his hockey game. I firmly believe he noticed the Scoutmaster position patch on my shirt, my full uniform and the four 12 - 14 year old boys and decided to just give me a warning. Grateful, as I pulled away, I told the boys that the only reason I did not receive a ticket was because of the uniform I was wearing. It was not because of me, but because of what the uniform represented. Not a proud moment on my part but that will become my SM minute this week.

First I would cop the attitude. Second, see the following below from (I think) Tim Makatura and slightly modified by me. Increase awareness that BSA makes special accommodations for Scouts with Autism and other cognitive/emotional disabilities. The first step in assisting Scouts with Autism is to increase awareness of what is available within the BSA. It is best to provide this information during recruitment. Clarify/Verify the diagnosis. In order to qualify for alternative requirements, a diagnosis MUST be made by a Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Pediatrician, Family Physician or Neurologist. This diagnosis helps to clarify the disorder but also helps to rule out other causes for the behavior. This diagnosis provides a name for the particular disability and the diagnostic report, which the Scout leader should have the opportunity to review, may also include general information about the disability, a behavioral description and recommendations for treatment. Talk with the parents/guardians regarding services provided in the home and school. Most of the activities in Scouting tend to be educational/social and it is important to create the most effective environment for these activities. Since schools and parents provide the childs learning environment, it is important to identify any special services or accommodations that are being provided in the home or classroom environment. These services should be considered when structuring the den or troop activity. Find out about the particular disability. There are a number of resources to find out about any disability through the National Institute of Health, local agencies, hospitals and support groups. A brief review Autism is provided below: Autism is a brain disorder that typically affects a person's ability to communicate, form relationships with others, and respond appropriately to the environment. Some people with autism have average speech and intellectual skills while other are mentally retarded, mute, or have serious language delays. For some, autism makes them seem closed off and shut down; others seem locked into repetitive behaviors and rigid thinking patterns. Persons with autism do not have exactly the same symptoms and deficits but they tend to experience problems in the area of social-interactive skills, communication, motor and sensory skills. There are also repetitive and obsessional styles of behavior that are associated with autism. Most children with autism seem to have tremendous difficulty learning to engage in the give-and-take of everyday human interaction. This problem may become evident even in the first few months of life when the child does not interact or may avoid eye contact. There is also difficulty in interpreting facial expression or gestures. (American Psychiatric Association, 2000) Find out about the specific disability. Learning about a specific disability like Autism is beneficial, however, there may be significant differences between individuals with the same diagnosis. Therefore, it is important to find out specific information about the cognitive/emotional condition from the parents. With their permission, it is also beneficial to get specifics about the individuals behavior from teachers, therapeutic workers and guidance counselors. From this information, you should be able to determine inappropriate behaviors as well as triggers for these behaviors. Find out what is being done in the home and in school to address these behaviors. Solicit suggestions from parents and professionals regarding methods to work effectively with the Scout. Initiate accommodations in the troop meetings and outings. There are a number of ways to develop and carry out accommodations for Scouts with cognitive disabilities. Here are a number of suggestions. Approach every meeting and outing with a positive attitude (and lose your cynicism) Insure the safety of the all Scouts. It is best to have the parent attend meetings with the Scout and provide supervision and/or interventions during the Scout meeting. The Scout leader may then decide when that supervision can be lessened or withdrawn. The parent and Scout leader should determine rules of behavior and consequences for inappropriate behavior in advance. They should also determine if any accommodations should be made for the tasks addressed in the meeting The Scout leader should review with the group of boys what is expected from them when inappropriate behavior occurs The Scout leader should inform the parent of the activity a few days in advance so that the child may be better prepared for the activity. The Scout with a cognitive/emotional disability may need some special accommodations or strategies to help them learn. Many of these accommodations and strategies are simply good teaching methods and are listed below (www.boyscouts-marin.org) Suggested Teaching Strategies Tell the Scouts in advance what they will learn Provide a combination of visual, written and oral instructions since these help the Scout to focus and remember the key parts of a learning activity. Repeat instructions often Break large tasks into a set of smaller tasks or steps and monitor for completion of each step Make a written list of these steps and allow the Scout to cross off each step as it is completed. This method may also be used for any number of tasks. Work on one step at a time. Allow for extra time for some Scouts to compete certain steps Have different (and adjustable) activities for faster and slower learners Try to provide a quiet area with limited distractions. Create a routine and expectations for each meeting. Plan short breaks Provide an area or time where the Scouts can move around and release excess energy. Establish a clearly defined and posted system of rules and consequences for behavior. A card or a picture may serve as a visual reminder to use the right behavior, like raising a hand instead of shouting out, or staying in a seat instead of wandering around the room. Accept and praise each boys best effort in keeping with the Scout Oath. Never make comparisons. Help everyone to understand that while fair means giving everyone what he need, it is not necessarily equal. (Weinstein, 1994) What Not to Do (Experts suggest that if a person with a cognitive/emotional disability could get away from their disability for just a few minutes and write a note to let others how to best deal with their behavior, the note would probably be something like this) Dont Spoil Me. I know I should not get all I ask for. I am only testing you. Dont be afraid to be firm with me. I prefer to know where I stand. Dont use force with me. It teaches me that power is all that counts. I respond better to examples of what I should do. Dont be inconsistent. Youll just confuse me and make me try harder to get away with anything I can. Dont make promises you cant keep. I will learn not to trust you. Dont let me provoke you. If I say or do things to upset you, dont blow up or I may do it again. I dont mean it. I just want you to feel sorry for me. Dont me feel smaller than I am. Ill just make up for it by acting like a big shot. Dont do things for me that I can do myself. This only makes me more dependent. Dont give my bad habits a lot of attention. This only encourages me to keep showing these to you. Dont correct me in front of others. It is better to correct me quietly and in private. Don't discuss my behavior in the heat of conflict. I don't hear or cooperate well at this time. Do what needs to be done, but save the words for later. Don't preach to me. You'd be surprised how well I already know what's right and wrong. Adapted from (Sloan, 2000) Review modification of requirements for membership and advancement. The following are the guidelines for membership and advancement in Scouting for persons having disabilities or other special needs. (www.boyscouts-marin) The Boys Scouts of America follow the definition of disability that is presented in the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) of 1990. It states that: "An individual is considered to have a 'disability' if s/he has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities (e.g., . . . seeing hearing, speaking, walking, breathing, performing manual tasks, learning, caring for oneself, and working), has a record of such impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment. (www.usdoj.gov). This definition includes individuals with severe and chronic mental or physical conditions. The ADA also protects individuals who have a record of disability but have recovered or shown significant progress. Membership requirements may be adapted to meet the needs of the Scout. The chartered organization, with approval from appropriate medical authorities, may allow a youth member to register (based on the above definitions) beyond the normal registration age. The Unit leader (i.e. Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, etc.) must certify the approval of the charter organization for the person to register and the local council must also approve this registration. These situations are decided on an individual basis. The medical condition of all candidates for membership beyond the normal registration age must be certified by a physician licensed to practice medicine, or an evaluation statement must be certified by an educational administrator. Any corrective measures, restrictions, limitations, or abnormalities must be noted. In the case of mentally retarded or emotionally disturbed candidates for membership, their condition must be certified by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. Current health, medical, or certification records of all youth members beyond the normal registration age who have disabilities are to be retained in the Unit file at the council service center (www.scouting.org).

There is no requirement for Webelos Scouts to wear the tan/olive uniform for a Bridging (or Crossover) ceremony. It may be a good idea, but not a requirement. For myself, I like the blue uniforms. Twocubdad - you're cool! I go off the deep end sometimes but if people are going to debate the minutia of Scouting, get the facts straight!

Nice food for thought Barry. I know I've lost a lot of Webelos parents, when visiting our troop because when discussing advancement I tell them my primary goal as SM is to teach their son leadership skills, not make sure they advance to Eagle.

Ambana, First, PLEASE DO NOT SHOUT ON THIS FORUM! Second, an easy solution would be for you to step up and pay this boys dues. You can work out arrangements with the boy and his family about reimbursement or "indentured servitude" (i.e. have the boy work them off).

Eamonn & BW - just an observance about the methods. I've seen many Scouters get hung up on the Uniform but then go ahead and throw out Patrol method. The same SMs who want to make the uniform mandatory, consistently chop off at the knees any attempt at building up patrol identify and spirit. When taking Strictly for Scoutmasters training at PTC this summer, it was emphasized that "all mehtods are equal", that is ideals were no more important than adult association, uniform no more important than the patrol method, etc. Before the methods were discussed a room full of SMs were asked how they would camp/eat with various combinations of Scouts from different patrols (ex. 2 Eagles, 6 Ravens, 2 Cobras and 6 Badgers). The vast majority of SMs started combining patrols with few numbers. Patrol identity goes in the toilet IMO when that happens.

Sorry to disappoint all of you but there is no khaki Webelos uniform! There is a Blue Uniform and a Tan Uniform (or Tan/Olive). The Blue Uniform consists of the Blue shirt, blue trousers or shorts (NOT blue jeans, but official BSA items), blue socks with gold tops. The tan/olive uniform consists of the official tan shirt, olive (not GREEN) trousers or shorts and olive socks with red tops. The hat and neckerchief is identical in both formats. A Webelos (not Webelo) Scout may wear either uniform. Tradition in my household was to buy the first blue shirt too big and when outgrown, if a Webelos Scout, go with an oversized tan shirt. Most of the boys outgrow before they outwear at this age.

Uniform cost: I own two SM uniforms, one UC uniform, three SA uniforms (for Jambo). Is it expensive, not really. If I came to a Scouting event sans a uniform, I would not be attending in my birthday suit. I would have to be wearing something. That "something" costs money too. Don't look at wearing the uniform as an addtional cost, look at it as saving wear and tear on your other clothes. Now for a growing boy, such as my two, they don't own as many uniforms but again, they outgrow, not outwear most of the clothes they own. BW, great ideas on getting the boys and committee to wear the uniform.

Growing up in St. Louis I'm well aware of the capabilities of the Eagle. Having flown in and out of STL as an aviator, passenger and as just a spectator at the airport, the near veritcal take-off (to stay away from commercial traffic) is an awesome sight. I must admit however, the old Mac tradition of Voodoo, Banshee, Phantom, for warplanes was kind of neat. Hornets and Eagles don't have quite the panache. God bless our Airmen, Soldier, Sailors and Marines.

Is this another area of "law" not being able to catch up with "science." If I remember correctly, the admonition should only be whispered to another Arrowman. Therefore, does utilizing the admonition as a password violate the spirit of the law? Well, for arguments sake, the OA web site shows the admonition, it's meaning and the proper pronunciation both orally and by type.

Seeing the "Pistons Fan" moniker and a description of the call out ceremony I'm guessing CVC and LLSR? I've seen their ceremony. Again, let's be reasonable. When we grab an elderly lady by the arm to help her across the street are we "dragging" her across the street? In the ceremony described, an individual is "designated" from behind by the ceremonialist and is ushered, one "helper" on each arm to the stage. I feel it is a good compromise between "mystique", safety and just enough "thrill" to make it a great ceremony. Just my two cents worth. By the way, our Ordeal is not so mamby pamby as how Tamegonit Arrowman described his lodge.

Under 21 are considered youth members, married or not. Youth members of the opposite sex may not share sleeping arrangements (i.e. the same tent). Therefore, only if the "couple" are NOT avowed homosexuals (would get them barred from the BSA) but ARE members of the same sex AND reside in a state that recognizes same sex marriage could they sare the same tent. For all of that to occur would be bizarre indeed!(This message has been edited by acco40)