cjmiam

I went 3 times in program and management. There are a lot of variables with NCS staff. They should be "the best", but sometimes they are just some person filling the spot. You could have a blast and you could be let down. The good thing is even if you have a less than stellar instructor, there is still a lot to learn from the others in your session. Take things that your camp does well along with you to share with others. Be ready for some long days and like others said keep an open mind. Your session will probably be a lot more fun than my last couple management sessions were. I do en

Packsaddle, were you asking me for that tax clarification? I have no clue what taxes are being paid by the corporation. I was referring to the Scouts, parents, volunteers, and potential new members of the program. All tax-paying Americans, even the little Cub Scout that bought a candy bar at the local gas station and paid an extra 6% on his purchase -- entitling him the right to set his little fanny on that beach and build the biggest sand castle imaginable and then ask the parks committee if theyd like to swim in his moat. But I agree, let's wait for a decision.

And before you get a chance to alter my meaning and intent and insinuate I am advocating a troop ran by buffoons... let me remind you that when I use the term training I am referring specifically to the courses offered by possible quality BSA personnel such as Fast Start, Basic, Wood Badge, ect., that allows us the honor of sewing that prestigious Trained patch on our shoulder.

Bob, You wrote, Nowhere did I say that being trained was the same as being a quality leader. No and that is not what I was inferring. But you do seem to be quite set on the fact that the ONLY way we can achieve quality leaders is through training. And that is where we differ. Your equation is: Leader + Training + successful at aims and mission of Scouting = Quality Leader = Quality Program And Im saying: Leader + or - Training + successful at aims and mission of Scouting = Quality Leader = Quality Program And while Im sure you have seen many examples where yo

Bob, this is where I think weve reached an impasse. It seems that you feel training provides quality leaders. While I agree that training is an important part of being a quality leader, I dont think it opens any magical door to make a quality leader or guarantee a quality program. You cant train a person personal motivation, passion, love, personal sacrifice, commitment, positive attitude or a personal desire to make the world a better place. You cant train a leader the drive that SR540Beaver exhibited when trying to find a place to meet and a charter for his unit. I believe it is t

SR540Beaver, That was a nice story. And thanks for sharing. I have no doubt that your efforts were the reason you now have a charter and place to meet. I dont think I was suggesting the exclusion of a certain type of organization. Sorry if thats how it appeared. But Bob was trying to ask me what I felt was more important than quality leaders or something of that sort, when I never asserted that there was a substitute or equivalence. It was then that I used some fundamental items needed to have a troop. Bob asserted that a quality leader would overcome those obstacles and you just p

Yeah the heck with equal access. Its not like they pay taxes or anything. Its not like they are members of the public. Its not like theyve probably had work days to clean up that beach. To put is simply, if this happened in my neck of the woods Id do everything humanly possible (lawfully of course) to get those individuals out of office. The good news? I think our country is fed up with this kind of garbage from people that shout for tolerance from the mountaintops yet dont tolerate any opinions differing from their own. That are so concerned with a freedom of choice as long as it

Actually I believe the highest cause of crashes was found to be rubbernecking. Eyes wandering off on something more interesting than the road. But thats beside the point. Dave originally was asking how the camp director should respond. And I believe that the camp director has a legal duty to respond with more than just reporting. Again, it probably depends on how it is worded in their guidelines. But the camp director may have no clue who the guy is in the car. It might be the Scouts dad or anyone for that matter. But that too is beside the point. I believe that if laws are bei

Well, that truly is a breakthrough Bob. Have you considered sharing this idea with Rod Paige? I really think the Department of Education could learn a lot from this concept. All theyd need to do is train teachers so that they learn the methods of teaching and we wouldnt have any more kids that dont know how to read. No more high school graduates unable to pass college entrance exams. No more kids being tardy or skipping school No more apathetic teenagers! It wouldnt cost a dime either, because as youve proven social and economic factors are not a factor. We all can get all of our tax d

Bob, You asked, And what element do you believe affects a quality program more than the ability of the unit leaders? And I responded that I never claimed such a thing exists, but there are several factors of at least the same importance. If you do not believe that having an organization willing to sponsor a unit is at least as important as quality leaders, I cannot help you. Granted, humankind has shown us its ingenuity, creativeness, and ability to overcome some of the most insurmountable tasks imaginable. I never claimed that we dont have the ability to cope, fix or reason. I am

Laurie, quality leaders are a part of what I consider a quality program. Hunt, teaching friendliness to the Scouts and having them practice it is what Id consider a part of a quality program. Bob, Im not sure what you are talking about regarding a fun trap. I dont recall mentioning it, but since you did, Ill agree, fun is indeed a part of a quality program. And yes, Bob, I too agree that quality leaders are a part of a quality program as I did with Laurie. And what element do you believe effects a quality program more than the ability of the unit leaders? I dont thi

Well, first I didnt see an exclusion of Venturing in your original post. I saw simply Scout units. Can we offer a quality Venturing program without High Adventure? Bob, I believe Ive agreed with you in your original premise that quality volunteers are the key to achieving the Mission of Scouting. If you read my post, youll note that I did explain that even if our Scouts or we dont have the resources to go to summer camp or on some high adventure activity we can still achieve our Mission of instilling values in young people and prepare them to make ethical choices over their lifetime.

Well, I don't have the publication number, but if you look in "The Building Blocks of Scouting" under Outdoor Program, you will find summer camp and high adventure both listed with large paragraphs about their benefits. I think it's clear that the BSA finds these important aspects of our program, as do I. Outdoor adventure could simply be camping in my back yard I suppose, but it certainly would be difficult to teach or learn a whole lot doing that all my life.

While I agreed with the other thread as it was written by B.W., I had an expanding opinion that I wanted to share, but did not want to steer the thread astray. I do wholeheartedly agree that achieving the Mission of the BSA comes down to quality adult volunteers. However, I also believe that a quality program encompasses many other factors, many of which DO involve having the means to fulfill them. Further I believe that kids do not care about the quality of the leaders when they are deciding to join our program. Parents might care, but more times than not there has to be a desire fro

Building character and instilling values in young people doesnt cost a cent. No amount of money will teach a kid how to make ethical choices over his lifetime or achieve his full potential. The ability of a unit to achieve its mission does rely on the quality of the adult volunteers. However, I do believe that part of the quality of one the building blocks of Scouting does rely on the ability of the unit to afford its costs. Specifically outdoor adventures. The cost of summer camp and high adventure activities can be a lot of money for some families. Is a unit achieving its mission if