CA_Scouter

As I see it, some of the problem with forums and electronic communication in general is the anonymity behind it, i.e.. people get bolder and use stronger words behind their screen names. Its also difficult to judge the tone and/or intent of a poster. As Anarchist points out, sometimes its just the 'style' of a person.. I work extensively with email on my job, as we have about 30 locations in the U.S. and Europe so I have to be very clear and careful in my wording to communicate properly. So I have a few steps that I follow: 1) Don't write something that you wouldn't say to someone directly in a face to face encounter. ( The possibility that you might get slapped across the face does wonders for politeness ). 2) Reread your post/email at least 2 times before hitting the SEND button. ( Correct your spelling and grammatical errors ). 3) Pretend its not you reading your own email, but the person on the receiving end. ( Is it appropriate? Is it in good taste? ). Most importantly, especially in these forums, if you are responding to a post, try to assume the BEST of people, rather than the worst. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Scouters, assuming that if something comes across 'rough', that its a slip of the 'tonque/fingers' so to speak and not an outright attack ( there are of course, exceptions ). That's my wisdom which I impart upon thee today! :_0

Coupla years back we had a couple of dozen flags, so we built two fires and worked both in unison.

"...I'm pointing out how bad the BSA has become" OK, so that implies that at some point in the past, you were ok with the BSA. When was that?

I'm with Eamonn. This is truly a sad case, and I feel horribly for the young man. I truly help something good comes out of this, so that he can get the proper treatment and counseling. I'm a little troubled by the apparant 'glee' the original poster seems to show here. It would seem he is exploiting this sad case solely to cast dispersions on the BSA, and imply that the BSA uses this tactic ( or similar tactics ) in all cases. I do agree, however, that the lawyer acting on behalf of the BSA is behaving badly ( I don't want to get into a war of words here... unethical, immoral, acting like a slimy little pig, whatever, you choose... ). I'm also upset that the local/national council would permit such a tactic. Bad choice. I've seen several instances lately where lawyers use the 'blame the victim' defense - its not limited to the BSA. The Duke lacrosse team incident comes to mind... the ongoing problem with some priests, etc.. where's the outrage there? I also question the posters motives here.. its obviously not to convince us to quit the BSA, he knows that won't happen, its seems more of an attempt to provoke a response... kinda a 'nyah, nyah' thing. I am willing to debate all manner of topics concerning the BSA, but this kind of thing just doesn't merit debate. Its bad. Period. I think I need to take a shower now... :-(

OK, the easy comment is maybe you didn't say 'let the girls do it themselves', though I'm sure you probably did, eh? If so, it needs to be restated in some way that sinks in to that parent. Perhaps you can assign her a special task or something that will keep her from interfering. Another suggestion, in our scout troop, the ASM's are assigned a patrol that they act as advisor to, but we don't assign an ASM to a patrol in which their son is a member. I've found that parents are less likely to interfere with someone else's child. My $0.02.

Boys and sticks again. Bad combination. The article sure doesn't build a strong case for revoking the charter. I'm with the Beav... dere's gotta be more to dis story.

...and taxes...

Beav, There is no such thing as a Class A or a Class B uniform either in da literature or da program, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, do it? IMHO, having the adults set an example by forming a patrol, having duty rosters, and running via the patrol method sets a good example to the scouts from which they can learn. That being said, we interact frequently with our scout patrols, assisting, instructing when needed, etc. In fact, we have a responsbility to oversee and monitor behavior, lest it turn into a 'Lord of the Flies' campout, which you can get with a lot of younger inexperienced scouts like our troop. I'm thinking your example is, like some other debates in these forums, the 1/10th of 1 percent of the situation. Yes, it occurs, but its not very frequent... but that's just my opinion based on what I've experience in my troop/council... could be different for other places...

All posters have given good advice and counsel, I have only a little bit to add. First, I think we all have a thing or two about BSA policy that we don't agree with, and for that matter, there are many policies in other aspects of my life that I don't agree with 100% either. Life is like that. Secondly, your post gives the impression that there are BSA 'Thought Police' out there watching our every move. Perhaps there are certain individuals that you work closely with that are unreasonable like that, but I doubt most scouters are... ( or is that just me being the 'glass is half-full' guy again? ) Thirdly, if it is important enough to you, say what is on your mind, in a courteous and constructive manner, and let the chips fall where they may. Persons of character should not walk around in fear of persons without character.

Rick Barry, NBA Hall of Famer, San Francisco Warriors. Met him at a basketball camp when I was in high school, and he showed us all how the underhand free throw toss was done...

OK, too bad, but you know where to find us when you need us! Ma - no worries, I can still take my 6'3" son and most of his buddies to the hoop... and out-hike the entire troop.... 'old age and treachery will overcome youthful exuberance'

My Eagle candidate is now ready for his Eagle Scoutmaster Conference. This will be the first such conference for me as SM, and I'm looking for advice, suggestions, links, etc. to assist me in performing a thorough and fair conference. Plus I just like to hear how others do it... its fun to share the knowledge! Thanks!

Definitely meet with the parents as Semper suggests. I would also require a parent to attend meetings and/or campouts until the behavior improves. Though you should do your best to help, its the parents' responsibility to control the young boy's behavior. Don't sacrifice the three 'good' scouts or other elements of your program for this one misbehaving scout.

Ed's suggestion is perfect. Make a Scoutmaster minute out of it, and then the message will be delivered to both the scouts and the adults. But remember that Scouters also, are not perfect, and they will slip up at times. More than likely, it was inadvertant on the adults part and they probably realized it afterward, though chose to keep a low profile and not bring attention to his slipup...

Camp Marin-Sierra, Marin Council, CA Well organized program, good selection of merit badges, very good waterfront and really good food, most cooked from scratch ( this is a big deal for the leaders :-) ). High Adventure program this year includes COPE, mountain biking, whitewater rafting, motorboating/wakeboarding and an overnighter. The last couple of times we went there, we had a campsite on the outside edge of the property overlooking the Yuba river drainage, and every night we had the most spectacular sunsets to enjoy. Only drawback is they are fairly close to the freeway, so you hear the big trucks pretty often.

It is so appropriately correct to have a scout MC the ceremony! How awesome that the adult has the confidence in this scout to handle such an important job, and that the scout has the confidence in himself to accept it. I don't understand your thinking, that it doesn't seem 'right'. Scouts is supposed to be a boy-run program, so what's your beef? We just had a COH this week, run entirely by the SPL and staff. Immediately prior to that, we had a memorial dedication on an Eagle project to a scout we lost in Jan (traffic accident), and it was also completely planned and run by the SPL and the Eagle candidate, and was done with the utmost respect and decorum. They were magnificent! You might be pleasantly surprised what these scouts can do, given the opportunity.

Ok, you be the judge... We have a 'no sticks' rule. That means that scouts are not allowed to pick up branches, twigs, whatever, unless they are building a fire. Time and time again, warning after warning, we ask them NOT to turn these things into weapons, but inevitably, within SECONDS it seems, we have a simulated swordfight or jousting session somewhere in camp. Of course, then the debates start... 'its not a stick, its a uh, golf club', or 'its not a stick, its a '. Aaaaargh. Sticks

Just to be clear, the problem parent had words with someone else regarding a boy who was not her son? Obviously, she is way out of line to stick her nose into another family's business. And unfortunatly, so would you should you comment on how she handles her own family. And its up to the other parent to handle the issue with the problem parent. I don't see how its your business to get involved with this... I don't think there is anything at all that you can do about this... some people are just difficult and based on your description, I can't see how you getting involved is going to change her attitude. I would venture to guess that there are deeper problems in that family that are bubbling up through Scouting. I can see how concerned you are and how you would like to help, but I don't see how you can do that much. I would suggest the best thing you can do is to lead by example, promote the program, and be the best Scouter you can be.

Ooooh, grown men in speedos... that's an image I could do without. ms - have you seen this or is this just a 'what if' question? I too have never seen a scouter in a speedo and don't really ever expect to ( or want to ). If anything, your camp should take the mention of gender out of the swimsuit requirement. Seems there's a loophole there that would permit men to wear bikinis!

I don't know about his association with the unit, but I'm thinking the next post will refer to some conspiracy that the BSA is involved in .... And I'm certain the he knew the rules about fundraising before he made this post. That's my $0.02.

Eweiss, First of all, you are a fine gentleman and a tribute to what is right about scouting for your efforts to be a friend to your SM's family during this most very difficult time. I lost a scout in my troop back in Jan due to a traffic accident. Our entire troop, parents included, attended the funeral as a show of support to the family. Our current eagle candidate dedicated his project to the scout, and tonight, we are having the dedication ceremony prior to our COH. Let me tell you that anything you do for this family will be most appreciated. If you knew the young lady, perhaps you could prepare a short statement. At the least, you could do as we did, and ask all scouts in attendence to stand a give a salute in honor of her ( be sure you all sit together ). Please be sure to educate your younger scouts about appropriate behavior at the event. Probably most of them have never been to a funeral before, so they'll need to understand the solemness of the occasion. Good luck and if the opportunity presents itself, please pass along condolences from a scouter from afar.

NC, Not sure what your plans are in Yosemite, and you may already be aware of this, but backpacking requires a Wilderness permit. They take reservations for about half the capacity of each trailhead. More information at this link: http://www.nps.gov/yose/wilderness/permits.htm#reserve As part of your wilderness permit, you can stay in the backpacker campground ( there is one in the valley and one up at Tuolumne Meadows ) for one night prior and one night after your trip, no reservations required. I've been backpacking quite a bit up there, so if you let me know which trails you are interested in, I can give you some pointers. With regards to camping nearby, I usually come into Yosmite via Hwy 120, which runs through the Stanislaus National Forest. They have some 'no reservation' campsites, so you take your chances on those, but dispersed camping is permitted in many areas, you'll just have to provide your own water. http://www.forestcamping.com/dow/pacficsw/staninfo.htm http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/stanislaus/ I've not been to Kings Canyon, so I don't have much to tell you, except they are surrounded by Sequoia National Forest, and they have the same policies with regard to dispersed camping. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/ With regard to SF... Yosemite is about a 4+ hour drive, not sure you want to be tackling that after a long plane ride... if you need some help/advice setting up accomodations in the SF area just let me know, I'd be glad to help... I've also got some maps I can send you ( I have duplicates ) if you'd like. PM me with your address and I'll drop them in the mail. Oooh, Oooh, this is fun... I think I want to be a wilderness travel agent when I grow up! :-)

I earned my Eagle in 1975, and had to endure BSA changing the MB requirements mid-stream. I started out having to get 21 MB's, but because I didn't finish by a certain date, I had to get three more for a total of 24. I have the same recollection as Trev regarding Eagle projects... mine was not so complicated, and I don't remember having to do the extensive documentation that is required for projects now.

CC, I am right there with you. I can't get enough of this stuff ( same as I was when I was a kid ), but the boy doesn't show the enthusiasm that I'd like him to show. I have that selfish side too... I want him to stay in and get his Eagle, he's just turned Life and has only 8 mb's to go... but he's got to want it on his own, I can't push him, or he won't learn anything! We are kindred spirits in this regard... I would just LOVE to get a bunch of suggestions from other posters to see what we can do to movitivate these guys... I'm all ears.... er eyes....

I would like to reinforce Longhauls comments on the fly. It is so very important to have a fly that extends to the ground in order to keep the kids dry during rain. That, and a 'bathtub' type waterproof floor, are very important in a tent. You can deal with just about any type of weather as long as the kids have a dry tent and a dry sleeping bag. Any hey, Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Lakes, I'm guessing that they must get filled up somehow... :-) I have no opinion on tent capacities for car camping, but if you plan to do backpacking, weight should be a consideration... That's my $0.02...