CA_Scouter

OGE speaks for many of us, I surmise... :-) So Ed, you don't like Merlyn's posts - Learn to live with it! So Merlyn, what would happened if a kid who's an atheist wanted to join ? I'm one of those guys that can't stand repititious noise.. i.e.. a faucet dripping, a clock ticking, people making the same posts over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ..... Apologies to the both of you.. not trying to offend... trying to move on...

I'm with you Hunt. We've been through the charter thing ad nauseum. Splitting hairs and arguing down to the nth degree is boring. A lot of Merlyn's posts serve to incite the others, the others bite, and here we go again... another hijacked thread! aaargh... move on folks...

Gern... I hope I didn't come across as being anti-ADA... that wasn't my intent... apologies... Merlyn, I'm asking two simple questions.. you deflected on the first one, you didn't address the second one at all. Let me rephrase the first one... what was your point in posting this article? You and we already know the BSA is a private membership organization. This article had nothing to do with public school charters of BSA troops... ( not that I can see! ). There must be some other reason you posted it... can you elaborate please? ... and I'm still looking for some sort of comment on question number 2... Be nice to me Merlyn, I'm just politely asking questions and lightly challenging you... :-)

With regard to REI, if you watch their website and ads closely, you can get access to their 'used gear' sales. Last year, I just happened to stumble into one of their stores, and they were trying to offload a bunch of used hiking boots. I picked up 8 pair of varying sizes, mostly 9's, and got them for 83 cents a pair! Yes, that's eighty three pennies a pair! Yes, they were used, some were in better shape than others, but I used them to supply our troop gear locker, and the scouts really benefitted from that! ( and one ASM who took one of the size 12's. ) We strongly encourage our scout families to donate their used gear, ESPECIALLY boots, because the scouts grow out of them so fast. In my experience with REI, they've been very friendly and supportive of Scouting. You may want to speak to a manager and see if you can't get access to this kinda stuff before a sale. ... and double FFYYII - REI offers a standard 10% discount to Scout troops - contact their corporate/group sales department and get registered.

Merlyn, I'm sure that you are addressing this subject purely at the ( for lack of a better word ) 'theoretical' level, just as you address the legal BSA discrimination, but at a practical level, I don't have a problem with this. I am SM of the troop, and am good at my profession ( software development ), but I am not trained in any way shape or form to work with autistic children. Now of course I'm assuming neither are the leaders of the troop in question, so for the parents to expect them to babysit their kid for an entire week is not fair ( and even possibly, not safe for the kid ). Similarily, I have had behavioral problems with one kid in my troop, and I required one of parents to be present at every meeting and every campout for a 90 day period as a condition of participation. The parents recognized that the issue of their son's behavior was theirs to deal with, not mine. They did not sue me. I'm certain that these troop leaders would do as I would... try their very best given the tools they have to work with, do some research etc. But I too would balk at having to be responsible for the kid an entire week, not only for my lack of skills, but also for what it could potentially take away from the rest of the scouts. So I'm curious... 1) what's your beef? 2) would YOU be willing to be responsible for an autistic child for an entire week at summer camp ( any summer camp )?

Congrats RM. The fact that your name bubbled up to the top of the list reflects the scouts and parents belief that you are the right man for the job! Some random thoughts... Be a strong Scoutmaster. Make sure everyone know where you stand on important issues. Some of my 'key' issues are safety, character, safety, Leave No Trace principles, preparedness and safety. IN that order. :-) Surround yourself with several ASM's. I have a troop of 21 Scouts, and I have 4 ASM's. I also have 2-3 other parents who attend meetings and campouts and help out. Don't be afraid to ask for assistance. I recently asked for other adults to handle our community service stuff, because we as SM/ASM's already volunteer a lot of time to the cause. Ask other adults to step up! You will always have at least one problem scout, and one or two problem parents. Its part of the job. Emphasize character and safety and they can't argue with you on that! Being SM is as fun as you want it to be. Keep it light, keep up the energy, don't get bogged down in details or minutae. HAVE FUN!

We actually do the opposite of Gonzo's troop. We DO allow the gear in the tent, its the SCOUTs we don't allow... we find that putting them in those large zip lock bags and leaning them up against a tree at night really prolongs tent life. :-) sorry, couldn't resist... But seriously, whatever tent you buy, make sure it has a full rain fly on it... some of the cheaper tents( Costco and others ) have these 'half-flys' on it, and they are useless in anything other than a heavy fog.

How about this: "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking." - JC Watts ( I believe ). Yes, building character is different from Scout Spirit, though very closely related. Building character goes beyond Scouts - it encompasses all you do in your life, from your business dealings, to your faith, your relationships with others, heck, even your conduct while driving! We push "character" in Scouts because its a life lesson - something one can take away when done with Scouts and apply throughout their lives. The Scout Law sets such a great standard and helps to build character in young people. In addition, I've found that playing the "character" card, so to speak, has a direct effect on issues of safety and security. If you can trust your scouts to always do the right thing, then the level of safety and security increases. Finally, I've found that by pushing the character issue on my scouts, its forced me to examine some of my own behavior to be sure I'm following the same philosophy ( note the 'driving' comment from above ). Also, its such a useful tool when dealing with discipline issues... what parent can object when explain that you are trying to build character with their scout?

I too applaud the actions of the SPL. What a smart kid! Excellent handling of the situation! Regarding "neither I (SM) nor the TC knew what had happened at the time " ... uh, well why didn't they know? Where was the adult supervision? Perhaps a stronger adult presence during Skillbase will help with the situation. Not to beat a dead horse, but consequences for the disruptive kid are appropriate, regardless if it upsets him or not. Its not fair to the other scouts to have him disrupt their meetings so much. First though, discuss with the kid what your expectations are for his behavior, and the consequences of not meeting those expectations. That way he will know what to expect ( the parent should be part of the meeting ). That being said, it doesn't mean you can't spend more time to find out what makes him tick and figure out appropriate 'redirection' to get him back in-line. I've got a couple of 'Windtalkers' in my troop, and I challenged them to put on a skillbase, and they came through and did a good job. They've done a few more since then, and though its not completely shut down the gabbing, it has helped. If you can find some 'positive reinforcement' to apply to this kid, you'll get a lot more distance out of it than by any negative reinforcement. You seem like you really want things to work out for this kid. With that kind of positive attitude, you should be able to do so. Good Luck.

You really gotta get rid of this guy. Based on your description of his abrasive personality, I suspect he will have a fit whether you handle this gently or not. He's already upset nine other families enough for them to leave, so why be concerned about upsetting him? I would not speak to him alone, I would get another committee member or two and have a short conference with him, say your piece, let him blow his stack for 5 minutes, then end the meeting.

Regarding: This comment bothers me. 'But we make compromises on all kinds of little stuff like this all the time.' Do we want to compromise and Eagle award? What does that say about Scouting. "Don't worry, we will just compromise, you don't have to do it right?" From what I gather from the original post, the candidate had fulfilled every requirement, was in good standing in the troop, and has had a misunderstanding with the adult who was supposed to provide the signature. I fault the adult here just as much as the scout, and I fault the scouts leaders equally with all involved. Do you really think my post was meant to undermine the integrity of the Eagle Award? For a clerical error? Please note that the phrase I used was 'little stuff'... Like I said in my post... if it was YOUR son...........

How does this benefit the boy? By reminding him of the importance of following the directions. No, this does not remind him of the importance of following directions. What this young man will take from scouting is 'I got screwed out of my Eagle award'. Yes, its a mistake on his part ( and maybe some adults along the way ). But we make compromises on all kinds of little stuff like this all the time. Something seemingly this minor should be able to be worked out. For those of you who say 'tough luck', I think you might be whistling a different tune if it was your kid in this situation...

Sounds like a SM with a large ego. If the patrols really are their normal patrols, then ok, but if they are formed for the purpose of winning events at camporee, then that's not ok. Guess I'm just stating the obvious though, eh?

We've gone to Marin-Sierra 3 of the last 4 years, and we are going again this year. We are very happy with the program, they have a nice lake ( warmest in the area ), very good programs and exhuberant staff. Nice high adventure program for your older scouts. Its located in the Sierra foothills, so you'd fly into Sacramento most likely. 5600 feet, 80's during the day, 60's in the evening. http://boyscouts-marin.org/

uz2b - we got a couple of the Gaz cartridge stoves, and a couple of the Coleman PowerMax stoves. We already had a couple of Gaz, but we had a couple of spills last campout and will probably ditch those for something more stable. We bought these larger 4 quart pots from REI so the patrols cooking wouldn't be too spread out, so that probably contributed to the stability problem. The Coleman Powermax worked great for the guys. Low center of gravity, very stable, easy to use. Worked just fine with the larger pots. We adults used a Jetboil on our week long backpack trip to Yosemite, and it worked really well. Not only does it boil water in a flash, it turns down very nicely to a low simmer so you can actually cook some flavor into the food ( we don't do freeze-dried ). On our trip, I brought my 'Bakepacker' and made my boy a birthday cake ( complete with candle ). This uses the freezer bag concept, same as what Brent refers to in his post, though it takes a LONG time to bake anything.. wouldn't want to do it too often as I'd have to lug more fuel with me...

I'm going to Philmont next weekend to join some friends for an Alumni Trek ( they are the alumni, not I ). I haven't got much information so I thought I'd post here to see what wisdom and tidbits of information I can glean from yall. i.e.. Are these guided trips? How's da food? We are flying into ABQ then driving out to Cimarron... got a decent place to stay? What's the one thing that I should bring that I haven't thought about yet? :-) Any other suggestions/ideas?

Hmmm, it looks to me the time you save cooking might be taken up by the increased number of times you have to 'trot' off into the bushes. Bring the Imodium!

On CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/23/scouts.rescue.ap/index.html Boy Scouts rescue toddler in river Wednesday, August 23, 2006; Posted: 12:40 p.m. EDT (16:40 GMT) Boy Scouts save an 18-month-old girl's life (1:31) OMAHA, Nebraska (AP) -- A troop of Boy Scouts on a camping trip saved an 18-month-old girl who had fallen in a river upstream from them and was floating face down, officials said. The boys were swimming in the Platte River at Two Rivers State Recreation Area, about 20 miles west of Omaha, on Saturday when 11-year-old Christian Nanson spotted something floating in the water. It turned out to be a young girl. Nanson and John Fitzgerald, 9, both members of an Omaha Scout troop, reached the girl and brought her to shore, while others called for help on a cell phone, assistant scoutmaster Matt Fitzgerald told the Omaha World-Herald. (Watch them describe seeing the girl in the water -- 1:31) Douglas County Sheriff's Deputy David Brock said the little girl, Stephanie Pacheco, was treated for hypothermia and released from a hospital Monday. The child had slipped away from her mother upstream, said Duane Arp, a conservation officer with the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission. Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Trev, Sorry, no, there is no life after SM. I can think of no other occupation more rewarding and stimulating. My only hope is to go quickly, perhaps I'll stand too close to the fire, there will be a small 'poof', and it will all be over. ( wink wink, har har, :-) :-) )

Semper, I ran into Scoutmaster Ron on the trail. I had invited his troop to use our other, unused, backcountry permit but they couldn't work it out. He was up there on a personal trip. We had one group hike 7 days, 43 miles, and we met our weekend group at the end and did Half Dome together. We also ran into 3 different scout troops along the way. Yes, awesome place... I figure I've done 15+ backpack trips through there over the years...

True Story: Went to Yosemite last week for a weeklong backpack trip. Started up in Tuolumne Meadows, ending in the Valley, which meant we shuttled our cars down to the Valley for us to pick up at the end of the week. I left my GPS on the dashboard in plain site. I put my 'club' on my steering wheel, but forgot to lock it. I left one of the rear doors ajar. I forgot to lock the car. NOBODY, not one single person, touched my car the entire week. PRICELESS! ( I will now reattach my head to my shoulders, as I obviously forgot that too! ).

I agree with the posters that one ( or even a couple ) F-bombs does not a suspension make. Egregious safety violations, personal injury, and multiple repeat offenses would qualify for possible suspension. I'm not sure what the case is here, but I doubt that this situation is all about ONE f-bomb. I'm guessing ( and no offense intended ) that there is more than this one incident weighing on the Scoutmaster's mind. Please remember that when you give the SM and his staff responsbility for the health and safety of your child, you also submit your child to the their expectations and standards of behavior. Its not really fair to them to have you going around second-guessing their decisions... after all, YOU willingly allowed them to take responsbility for your child! You can't expect them to hold Kid A to Family A's standard, Kid B to Family B's standard, etc... I had to suspend one kid for, among other things, rudely propositioning a young lady ( while in scout uniform ), defacement of public property ( after we busted him he threw a fit and carved up a picnic table ) and insubordination. His Mom argued with me repeatedly, and stated 'But he is such a GOOD boy!'. Parents don't always see Little Johnny's behavior when he's out of their line of sight. I only say this because you should consider the possibility that your son might have had a few lapses in judgement that you don't know about, but the Scoutmasters do...

God Bless, you are all on my list.

"Scouts don't attend Troop meetings so we come up with some sort of policy or rule." Yes, we do. I have 21 Scouts in my troop, about 20 who attend regularly ( we have really good attendence). I have one scout who sparsely attends meetings, but conveniently shows up the Monday before most campouts. He does not participate in the planning, attend skilbases, shop for food, help arrange transportation, etc. He generally does not pay much attention when he does attend, and is a discipline problem most of the time( nothing major, just lots of little nits, but it gets exhausting ). Basically, his Mom (single Mom) drops him off for a weekend of free babysitting. I don't see anything wrong with our troop meetings, nor do I see anything wrong with imposing a modest attendence requirement for participation in events. BTW - this attendance requirement came from a request of the PLC, not the adults! If we had a situation where we had lower attendance with multiple scouts, I could agree with this post, but we've currently got a 90-95% attendance average! WooHoo!

Lost my Dad unexpectedly in 2001, he was also heavily involved in our Scouting. He only had his two sons make Eagle, but we are both working on the grandsons. What a wonderful legacy he leaves for you and your family, and to your the Scouting community. Thoughts and prayers are coming your way.