CA_Scouter

SF Bay Area has PEETS. That is our shameful indulgence, buying fresh ground coffee from PEETS every week. There is another mom/pop place somewhere near Broadway in SF, I think its called Graffio's or some such Italian name. A retired colleague of mine used to go there all the time and it was the absolute best I ever had. Gotta find that place one of these days... ... and hey, have any of you heard from that dude in Nigeria? He's looking for some people to help him cash a $500,000 check or something like that... seems like a nice guy... :-)

FScouter: Ouch. I disagree, but I'll respect your opinion and admit that I'm a bit biased in my favor. I'll stop now. Now Merlyn, I can agree with your last statement. G'nite

Merlyn, Believe you me, I WAS being curteous and kind. Some statements are both true and insulting. You use a double standard: 1) when you criticize someone, you can say whatever you want, you call 'em as you see 'em 2) if someone criticizes you, they are hypocritical and insulting Have you noticed yet again, that I've not critized you for your content, your right to your opinion, your right to post here, etc. just the method in which you do so... Have you noticed yet again, that you cannot handle any sort of criticism whatssoever? Let me tell ya, everyone else notices these things...

Merlyn, You come across as a hothead at times. Any criticism of your argument or your methods and you get all huffy - kinda like my teenager. He knows everything. I'm not trying to supress your true statements, I'm trying to point out that you could be a bit more civil in stating them. And I'd like to point out that there was some criticism of Ed earlier in this thread and he evaluated it, decided it had merit, and offered servings of 'humble' pie. A true gentleman can look at himself critically and make adjustments when needed ( or required ). You, on the other hand, cannot fathom that you can do anything wrong at all. You're like the captain of the ship who is repeatedly trying to order the bogey on his radar to move out of his path because he is the navy ship 'USS Whatever'. The bogey responds, 'this is the Lighthouse, your call'. Even though you don't like the BSA, its still ok to be curteous and kind.

You're deflecting again Merlyn. We are speaking of the constant repetition, at times, your belittling of others, your name calling and personal insults directed at Ed. Please try to stay on point. You can stomp your feet, cross your arms and burst out with an indignant 'harumph', but you just can't have it only YOUR way. Now don't go off and pout - please note that this particular thread addresses decorum, not the content of your arguments or your right to express your opinion. Perhaps if you improved in this area, you might gain a modicum of respect from those who currently have disdain for you.

and he keeps going and going and going and going....

Yea, I made mention of the Bickersons in a long-ago post as well. I think Merlyn has good arguments and is well written most of the time. However, when he goes to name calling and personal insults he loses points with me. Likewise, he is so singularly focused on the legal discrimination issue of the BSA that he cannot see anything past that. M, there ARE a lot of good things about the BSA, despite your opinion. Ed's posts in most forums reflect the opinions of an experienced scouter lending a hand. Ed's posts on political forums are a bit more 'barbed' and conservatively biased. Ed, there ARE merits to some of M's arguments, despite your opinion. Both 'bait' each other pretty regularly. I'd say that Ed is winning the battle, based on M's name calling and personal insults, however I marvel at how they both can get each other going time after time, knowing exactly how to goad the other guy. I think "can't learn" applies to both of them on this issue. I tire of their pettiness though. I had a thread going one time that was very interesting and had a lot of good posts from many scouters until those two hijacked it and I asked to have it shut down. ( 'agnostic scout' ). I think the problem with M is that he exists here to poke at the BSA and to attempt to convince us that his point of view is correct. Problem is, though most of us can understand the legal argument and agree with the court decision, we simply don't like it and don't subscribe to his point of view. I do skip through a lost of his posts though now, because he's beating the same drum every time. I can pretty much predict his responses to most posts. You gotta love him though, he's our little Energizer Bunny, he keeps going and going, and going ...

TJ - both responses excellent. All your points are well taken. Agreed that there is an implicit endorsement of the policy even though I don't necessarily agree with it. Disagree though, that its hate.

Congrats to not only the Scout but the family for their support ane encouragement thru the journey. Son is 3 MB's and a project away before he catches up to Dad and Uncle.

Regarding: "...the nuance of their leader's unintended judgment or implicit endorsement of prejudice against that boy" I am not sure what to make of this statement. Does this mean that by the simple act of being a leader in the BSA, that I'm guilty of prejudice against one of my scouts?

TJ, apologies if you misinterpreted my intention. The :-) symbol was meant to convey a 'tongue in cheek' comment. I was merely addressing the overuse of the term 'hate' in general terms. I see it used in many subjects, homosexuality, race, gender, religion, hair color, etc. ( Please note that I did not specify any subject in my original post, though in the context of the article I can see where I should have been more explicit in my statement. ) Your statement about 'implicitly' teaching hate, well shoot, it just doesn't happen. Don't try to tell me that because the BSA has this policy that I teach it or even agree with it. It just never comes up. Based on your logic, I might interpret your own statements as 'hatred' towards me! I don't care about sexual orientation, I don't care about race, I don't care about hair color... all I care about with regard to my troop is if we are running a good, scout-led program and they ( and we adults ) are having fun. However, it seems I have lit a small fire here.. kinda knew something like this might happen, but I honestly wanted to focus on the overuse of the term...

"And to teach boys how to work with each other ... not to teach them hatred, and not to teach them division." You know, I see this 'hate' thing mentioned fairly frequently by BSA detractors, yet for the life of me, I cannot find anything in my Woods Wisdom book, my Scoutmaster handbook, lesson plans, etc. that provides any guidance whatsoever on teaching hatred. Does anyone know where I can find a resource on this so I can put on a proper Skilbase on the subject? I think our society has changed the meaning of the word 'hate'. Its now 'if you disagree with me, its hate'. :-)

Why is it that if someone shows a lack of morality regarding a sexual issue ( these are adulterer's after all ) that any criticism at all is regarded as 'judgemental' or 'unfair'? Yet we will condemn them to death for not wearing the uniform properly, or not attending 100% of the meetings, or some such other breach of BSA procedure ( real or imagined ). We are so willing to forgive sexual escapades - 'its none of my business', 'oh well, nature just taking its course', etc. Why do we do that when we are so willing to slam them for other things? These were adulterer's carrying on in front of the scouts. Parents entrusted these leaders not only for the safety of their scouts but for their character and leadership on the outing. The troop lost a scout over this - its a BIG DEAL. If you are not going to ask them to resign their leadership positions ( not kick them out of scouts ), then not having them both on the same campout seems the best resolution.

Camping trip to Sly Park in the Sierra Nevada foothills. We did the 8.5 mile hike around the lake and put in another 2 so we could qualify for one of the Hiking MB hikes. Gorgeous weather and beautiful fall colors.

Some cynical observations: "No youth ever found out" - good lesson, its ok as long as you don't get caught "The marriage was over, but not publically" - says who? The two who jumped in the tent together or the spouse(s) at home? One of my best friends justified his cheating by telling me his marriage was over, only problem was, his wife didn't know it was over. "A mistake would be if he went to the wrong tent" - now that sounds like the most applicable statement I've seen so far...

I've done cornbread in a heavy cast iron fry pan covered with foil. Simulates an oven as long as you don't let the coals get too hot.

MOL, I believe those are called 'flavor dots'. :-) This reminds me of the story of my Mother who emigrated from Germany wanting to be a good wife to my American father. She worked all day long to scrub the frying plan clean only to have my Dad have to explain to her about 'seasoned' iron frying pans in America.

I went to Yellowstone last month backpacking, and I was told there were two ways to handle bears: 1. If you surprise a bear and they go after you, they are assessing you as a threat. You should lie face down, spread your legs to prevent being turned over, put your hands around the back or your neck to protect your spine. Play dead as long as it takes. 2. If they go after you in your tent, they''ve already assessed you and decided you are food. Fight back vigorously. So I''m not exactly sure what the correct behavior is now... is there a definitive source on the subject? I guess since the kid was only nipped at, he had no need to fight back vigorusly, but if it was a more agressive attack, then fighting back probably should have been the choice. Oops, guess I answered my own question! :-0)

I too read the Outside article and that was enough for me. Survivorman - He didn''t Man -vs Wild - Wild wins I shouldn''t be Alive - guess what, your not! Alex Superdumb would be a better moniker.

I''m shocked, shocked I tell you! A politician not keeping his word?? Why, I''m just flabbergasted! But I''ll tell ya, last time I went thru the Denver airport and used the facilities, I made sure not to take a wide stance! ( nor tap my feet ).

Our troop is sponsored by the local fire dept association, and we use their engine bay/garage for meetings. There is a good sized patch of unused land out back where we asked for and received permission to build a fire pit. My Life scout wants to expand upon that pit and make it a ''sunken'' pit, with seating and possibly a bbq area, where it could be used by the fire dept and by us. He wants to do this as his Eagle project. The idea was informally passed by the District Advancement chair, and he is agreeable to the idea. The area would be available to the Fire dept at any time and would definitely be an improvement to the facility. Of course, the troop would use it every Monday night also. I originally did not go for the idea because the troop would be a beneficiary of the project. Not the sole beneficiary though, so that''s probably why the advancement guy said ok. It would be a heckuva neat project though, the scout would learn a great deal on planning, drawing, constructions, fund raising, etc. What are your thoughts? Does this seem to be an appropriate Eagle project?

Whose counting? Doesn''t the time just kinda fly by anyway? I simply don''t notice the hours any longer ( maybe my wife does, but that''s another story ). :-)

!

Brent's suggestions are very good. I would start by treating the next car camping trip as a backpacking trip.. that is, pack up like its backpacking, but stay at a local campground. And I mean EVERYTHING! Lightweight stoves, pots/pans, one pot meals, no ice chest, etc. That way they can start learning what they don't need to bring. Then get 'em started on the trail, do only a day hike, and make it a worthy destination ( swimming hole, fishing spot, waterfall, rock formations, etc. ).. Of course, design your preceding skillbases around backpacking techniques, i.e. .cooking, packing, hiking, etc. For your first trip, make it a 2-4 miler... no 8-10 the first time... again, make it a worthwhile destination.

OK, I thought this was just a quickie response, but now the gloves come off. I originally posted Dungeness Crab and Sourdough. Allow me to elaborate! Dungeness crab bought directly from the boat, live, and cooked within the hour. Sourdough french bread so sour that the lymph glands in your neck tingle when you bite into it. A cube of butter, applied to either. One crab, one loaf per person. Then we have ASPARAGUS. Boiled, steamed usually, but rolled in olive oil and garlic power and bbq'd is nice also. Then we got us ARTICHOKES. Same preparation, but if bbq then cut 'em in half first. Niman Ranch lamb, marinated for days and bbq'd. Then there is ABALONE, which you can buy for $95/lb or you can snorkle for your own while you dodge the Great Whites. Pacific Coast salmon is also excellent, and the calamari is to die for as long as you get mostly tentacles and not too much sauce - just a douse of fresh lemon is usually enough. Wash it down with a nice Napa Valley vintage. Dang I got to make me a trip into the City soon!