CA_Scouter

Similar to Scoutingagain, our troop hadn't done any backpacking trips in several years until I joined up. I managed to get them to do one trip the first year, and then last year we did two, including a trip to Half Dome in Yosemite. After that trip, they were 'totally stoked' on backpacking. This year, we are up to three, including a full week through the Yosemite backcountry. Even with our car camping trips now, we try to reduce the amount of equipment to a minimal level, and this year we are going to push LNT pretty heavily. Getting out into the woods gives the scouts so much more personal experience with nature and reinforces 'being prepared'. You can't run back to the car to get your jacket if the car is 5 miles down the trail. We spend plenty of time planning logistics, meals, trails, activities, etc., and the guys get really involved in it. One of the other nice things about it is we are away from the general public, so we can make a little noise and not worry about it. We also don't have to deal with 'neighbors' who drink, smoke da ganga, play music loudly at night, teenagers running around topless ( yes, this did happen to us last year ), etc.. I heartily recommend a heavy emphasis on backcountry skills, LNT, and the experience and confidence that comes with learning self-sufficiency in the woods.

Since we are pushing buttons... I didn't wear the official scout socks at our last COH. Nya, nya!

Thanks LongHaul... you are right on. ScoutnDad... did you hear about the new natural fragrance cologne Cheney is endorsing? Its call 'Duck!'. ( Leno I think ).

I'm with ED on this one. 60 days suspension, loss of any leadership position, parent conference, written apology, etc. I'm a three strikes kinda guy, but in this case, I'd count one strike with the bullying and a second strike with the airsoft gun. Next time he's gone. Not sure if you'll see him back anyway after 60 days, though I suspended a scout last year for 90 days and he came back ( a little more humble, btw ). That's my $0.02

The Ten Commandments?

Whew, thank goodness, the shakes have stopped. :-0

CNY, I'm wit you. Following the guidelines is entirely dependant upon how the adults implement the program. Unfortunately its like any other volunteer position - most people are not trained for the job and they miss the mark ( think: kids sports - nutty parents, crazy coaches ). And there is little you can do about it... :-(

I'm with Gern. Let's talk about something less controversial, like uniforms, sexual orientation, religion or politics. :-) Have a great Sunday everyone!

Cap'nRon, just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they deserve to die. I am in SF on a weekly basis. I don't want to become collatoral damage. Hopefully the Scouts who go there to fulfill their Citz/Community merit badge won't either. You should apologize or be demoted from your captainship.

CNY - apologies... I did not mean to imply that your particular post was not a real situation, what I was trying to address was the preponderance of 'what if' scenarios that I've been seeing on this topic. btw - shhhhh... I don't mind telling yall, but we really did have an alien spacecraft interrupt one of our skillbases... :-)

We get the medical records and the Camping/Transportation Chair keeps the originals in a binder. We also have travel binders where we have copies of permission slips and parent contact info, along with copies of the medical records in a sealed envelope. These binders are handed out to each driver when we go on a trip, with the understanding that the medical records are not to be opened unless in case of emergency. At the conclusion of the trip, all binders are returned to the troop storage area. Our troop is relatively small, under 20 Scouts, so keeping the records current is not a big deal.

Responding to CNY... CA_Scouter - so you are saying because you are not a paid employee and cant be fired, you dont have to follow the BSA guidelines? No Sir. I'm saying that as we are volunteers, the BSA understands that it cannot control every aspect of your program, so it provides 'guidelines', not enforceable/punishable rules and regulations, to form your program around. A good scouter follows those guidelines to the best of their ability, and if they don't require the Scouts to wear official socks, they are not expelled from the BSA. Being involved with this forum for a while now, I believe we are ALL following the intent and spirit of the Scouting program. Concerns being aired on these forums are typically for very minor deviations from the BSA guidelines ( mostly uniform discrepancies ), OR they are for hypothetical situations developed by the poster. I would like to see specific examples of posters not following the program as I'd rather deal in realities rather than hypotheticals. Reality: troop doesn't use the Patrol Method Hypothetical: if an alien spaceship landed in the middle of your skillbase... What would you rather comment on?

Hey Semper, my wife's grandfather helped build the Golden Gate Bridge... if you want to fire those guns, point 'em at City Hall - that's where all this political 'bull droppings' came from... Luckily SF only speaks for SF. Most of the rest of the Golden State stands proud for our military and its history. In fact, Alameda, just across the bay from SF, has the USS Hornet, and our troop spend the weekend there last November. The guys just loved it. ( San Diego has the USS Midway and more ). I'm glad Stockton got it... its been sitting in the mothball fleet out in Benecia for several years now and it will be good to see her cleaned up. The folks around Stockton will appreciate it properly too! I grew up in SF and still have family in the area ( though not in the City ) and I don't remember it being at the kook level that it is now. Used to be SF was just entertaining, but now its at kook level alert HIGH ( Orange ). :-)

I dunno, do we really need to rehash the TWEAK thread again? We did this not too long ago and I, for one, did not learn anything useful. I don't think a new discussion on the same topic will result in any new insights. That's just my $0.02 worth. Just re-read Semper's post. I am in complete agreement. If BSA had wanted cookie-cutter programs and cloned scouts, they would have written it into their policy, provided the means to determine when a troop was in violation, developed remedies to expel non-compliant troops and would vigorously and agressivly enforce it. That's another two cents, so now you have four! :-)

The reason MickeyD's works is because you are a paid employee, and if you don't use their cookie cutter approach, you are fired. BSA works with volunteers, and they are smart enough to know that they will walk away should you force them into a program that is too rigid. As OneHour points out, there are some standards that BSA has, and the rest are guidelines. I think that is wise of the BSA, to set some hard and fast rules for the really, really important stuff, and some excellent guidelines and training for the rest. I'm with Beavuh. Your city troop and my rural troop are the same but they are completely different, if you know what I mean! This isn't the armed forces, its not 'I, Robot', and its not 'Attack of the Clones'. In my opinion, BSA wants us to be similar, not exact copies.

Ya know, Novice has a point. Some of we Christians can be quite passionate and zealous in our beliefs at times, and we can inadvertantly trample upon the beliefs of others...

Merlyn's comment is spot on! I remember trying to sell some custom software to a local municipality, and their contract language read, in effect, if anything goes wrong with the implementation of the project, no matter whose fault it is ( yours, ours, whatever ), you will forfeit your bond and receive no payment. All it would have taken is for one supervisor to say he wouldn't use it, and I'd be toast! I immediately ( and respectfully ) withdrew my bid. ( Careful Merlyn, some could interpret your post as being supportive of Scouting! ) :-)

Greetings! I'm located a couple of hours from San Francisco, but I am there frequently and grew up in the area. There is not much in the way of Scout camping areas close to SF, most are at least an hour or more away, but there are some state and county parks nearby. I believe San Mateo Memorial Park is first/come first/served, but Portola State park will take reservations, but most state park reservations fill up very early in California, so good luck! For general camping reservations in the USA, try http://www.reserveusa.com . This is a good resource just to locate camping areas also. If I can be of more assistance, you can PM me.

I also agree with previous posters about not having the scouts help themselves at McD and other places. How about just going to a restaurant supply store and buying a box of 10,000 ( or whatever ) packets? This stuff has a half-life mind you, so you may be using these things until 2030. But with regard to the efficiency debate, more careful menu planning might be in order, so as to reduce such waste. Or perhaps sharing between patrols...

In addressing camping needs, I'm more of the mindset that less is better. When my son and I joined our troop, they had some awesome campers. We had EZups, dutch ovens, 20 lb propane bottles, stoves, lanterns, patrol boxes, etc... Heck the SM had a 3 burner propane stove, complete with cast iron cookware and a grill that could cook a side of beef had he chosen to do so. Absolutely awesome. However, we also had to take 3-4 trucks, roof racks, and a trailer now and then to transport all the equipment and... oh yeah! The Scouts! All 12 of 'em. Talk about OVERKILL! I call this 'seige camping'. I have been encourging more backcountry trips for our troop, so we are in the process of procuring more lightweight stoves and cooking equipment, and we are teaching the scouts more low impact techniques. Now we use half the vehicles we used to, we are quick to set up camp and take it down, and we teach these scouts how to get by with less, to be innovative and to adapt to the conditions. Now we hike to most of our destinations, see more of the natural wonders in our area, and we don't have to deal with getting all our campsites together, drunk campers, or shsssing the kids all the time. Its been a pretty good decision all around... Yea, we still do a couple of 'seige' campouts every year, but we seem to enjoy the solitude of getting away from the public campgrounds more. Just something to consider...

Thank you all for your kind words. The memorial service was held yesterday, so we were finally able to say our last good byes. The service was held at 2pm, and I was just so pleased that the entire troop attended. Not only that, but nearly every parent, husband AND wife and a few siblings were there. Considering that 1) the adults had to take time off from work, 2) the kids had to be picked up and pulled out of school, 3) arrangements had to be made for younger siblings - I was just so impressed at the dedication for the scouts in our troop - though to be honest, I was not surprised. How lucky I am to be SM of this troop! I was asked by the Dad to say a few words, so I spoke for about 10 minutes. Some laughs, a lot of tears. We put together an album of pictures from various campouts and the scouts signed a bunch of the printouts ( from digital photos ). We have a scout working on his Eagle project and we are going to dedicate the sitting area to our lost Scout. All scouts and leaders showed up in full uniform, and as a final good bye, we stood at attention and saluted.

"Wearing just a neckerchief seems to be a fairly widely accepted "Class B" worldwide." Well that certainly puts an end to the discussion on how dorky the pants are! :-)

Thank you all for your input. I especially like the ideas about researching other troop activities and being a 'part of their game'. I will do my best to implement these ideas as soon as I can recover from my severely broken and bleeding heart ( see my PRAYERS NEEDED post ). :-(

I am shaking as I write this... I was just informed that one of my scouts was killed last night in a traffic accident. He was crossing a road and was hit by a car. This is the same kid on which I based my 'agnostic scout' topic about a month ago. 15 years old, a a real challenge to work with, but I established such a good relationship with him and we got along very well. I am just absolutely devastated and horrified. Please say a prayer for Derrick and his family. (This message has been edited by CA_Scouter)

Excellent advice guys. I just had one of those 'slap palm on the forehead' moments. Makes perfect sense to have them come up with the ideas. So let me refine my problem a little more. My PLC does not really come up with many ideas. I try to encourage them to, but they seem more interested in the social aspect of getting together rather than running the meetings. I am going to do an extensive junior leader training course in Feb to see if that helps, but if you've got other ideas, I'm all ears!