CA_Scouter

E has a point, but where do we draw the line? I have 19 scouts in my troop. I have this one kid who pulls this stuff. Do I change the program to meet the needs of this one problem scout? No. And tough luck if he or his mom doesn't like it. Yes, maybe he's better off in another program, maybe he's not interested, maybe its time to sit down and listen to him... ooops sorry, you get out of scouts what you put in... if you don't put energy into it, you don't get energy out of it. That's a lesson that is real and valid. I would be doing a disservice to the other scouts by catering to his ( or really, in this case, his Mom's ) needs. Its not Baby Sitters of America. Right?

We had a similar situation this year. Kid shows up intermittantly at meetings, and when the Mom gets wind of a campout, he shows up the week before. She's basically dumping the kid on us for the weekend for some free babysitting. He was ok at summer camp this year, but some of the PLC were not pleased about the sparse attendence, then having to deal with him and his sometimes questionable behavior at camp. They are planning to set a minimum attendance requirement for future campouts at this months PLC meeting. I also flat-out refused to take him on one of our backpacking trips because he didn't attend skillbases and would be a burden to the entire group. I like the '4-meeting' rule... will suggest it...

I echo Vicki's comment: Don't write anything you wouldn't say to someone if they were standing right in front of you. Too many times, people take advantage of the anonymity that screen names provide and become emboldened ( is that a word? No, thanks, don't correct me... ). I read and re-read my responses before I hit the SEND button. At work and here... sometimes what you initially type may not come across as you intend... edit yourself with a critical eye. That being said, I'd like to point out that we are all Scouters here, with common goals and interests. I ALWAYS assume that the posters here have legitimate and valid questions, and I ignore the perceived 'tone' of their emails and assume they always have the best interests of their Scout and Scouting at heart. Anything less would be un-Scoutlike, donchathink?

Last year we tried a new camp and the food was really bad. For example, they tried to pass off Top Ramen as chow mein. Yuck. There food could legimately be called 'slop'. This year we returned to Camp Marin Sierra, where we always had good food. We again were not disappointed. Food was fresh, meals well balanced, plenty of seconds and tons of salad. Cold, cold milk for breakfast, in addition to the breakfast burritos ( the first day ), you had fresh fruit and all the cereal you could eat. Juice also. Always a PBJ table for lunch, plenty of COLD drinks for meals.... this place has always been excellent for food! Also, its outdoor seating under a huge canopy of trees... no stuffy indoor seating, which is really nice during this current heat wave. Program and staff are good also. Good sized lake, high adventure program, and more.. Obviously, we really like this place and some of the scouts already asked to go back there next year. The program director told me they had a troop from Kentucky coming out next week. Pretty cool.

Regarding: "Assuming he changes his clothing " Based on several years experience, you assume incorrectly. You'd send 5 shirts to camp and come back with 4 clean ones... We encourage only 1-2 tshirts, preferably non-white as they are usually filthy about 10 minutes after they arrive at camp... :-) This is 'freedom' week for the scouts. If I didn't insist on mandatory shower days, in most cases, it wouldn't happen.

Lotsa talk about summer camp... what do you do to make it more fun and comfortable for both yourself and your scouts? OK, I'll go first!!! 1. Adults make their own coffee every morning, before camp breakfast and that brownish black stuff they call coffee. We bring our freshly ground Peets, and some of us have those lexan french presses... mmmmmmm... just the right way to start the day. 2. We wake up before the scouts and don't go to sleep until after they do, so we run a little short on shuteye. I manage to sneak in a short power nap after lunch most days in my folding chair with the foot rest. 3. We try to bring in reinforcements ( an additional one or two adults ) on Thursday to give the rest of us a bit of a break. 4. We roam through camp with a fanny pack full of Jolly Ranchers and hand 'em out to our scouts now and then. They really LIKE us! 5. Come about Wednesday, the adult leaders start planning their Saturday night dinner, as we've had just about enough of meatless and mostly tasteless meals at that point. We get into some pretty fun conversations and afterwards have to wipe the drool off our chins.. :-) 6. We manage to get in a few dutch oven cobblers during the week. The scouts ( and the adults ) just love it. How about you?

Let's not mince words, eh? The adult leader acted like a major JERK and blew this situation totally out of proportion. The JASM handled it appropriately and the adult should have stayed out of the situation entirely. SM needs to speak to this adult leader about his unacceptable behavior. No free pass on this one. JASM should be commended on his handling of the situation and should also be told that he should use this adults tantrum as an example of exactly how NOT to behave. That's my take on it...

So far, I see only Scott making accusations, and see no evidence of Harry doing anything wrong. I have a Scout who tells tall tales ( ok, he lies ) and occasionally gets into minor scrapes with the others. IN additional to the excellent suggestioned noted above, we assign an ASM to monitor the scout's activities when we suspect him of wrongdoing. Amazingly, when he knows he's being watched, we've had no problems! On the other hand, I had a scout quit the troop over this previous scout, because I didn't listen closely enough to his complaint and follow through sufficiently. ( shame on me! ) I would ask Scott very specific questions about the bullying, so as to be sure its not a general 'I'm being picked on' thing. If he can't recall sufficient details, then maybe you have a clue of what is really going on... Also, I would monitor Scott very closely, and don't give him a chance to be without adult supervision/observation for a while if at all possible.

Dozy, Forgive my impestuousness, but I see both the old guard and the new guard in a power struggle and both completely disregarding the concept of a boy-run troop. I sense quoting of rules and procedures, resentment towards other adults, jealously and infighting. This quote "All the CM's boys received MB's and all of the CM's boys made Eagle? " I find particulary disturbing. There are many families with multiple Eagle scouts, both my brother and I achieved the rank - FAIRLY AND EQUITABLY. Its not fair for you to assume they made Eagle only because their parent was a CM ( or because you personally don't like the CM ). The entire process of Scoutmaster conferences and Boards of Review works to prevent any kind of favoritism or abuse to occur. It would take a MONUMENTAL conspiracy, stretching over several years, to make that happen... and how would you explain the DISTRICT permitting the boys to get Eagle? Does the conspiracy reach that far? Sorry, though this may have started out as an honest attempt to bring about change, this is now a power struggle. The boys are collateral damage. :-(

Bad Scoutmaster! Bad, bad SM! Rules have to be the same for everybody, otherwise your authority as SM means nothing. I didn't do my son's Life SM Conference alone, because I didn't want to give anyone reason to question its legitimacy, even though I'm perfectly 'legal' to do so... I think you have two choices: 1) Cut the SM some slack, maybe he wasn't aware or other kids had cell phones and you didn't see them.. 2) If its a regular occurance, voice your opinion to the SM, obviously, kindly and courteously. Maybe he doesn't realize how this looks to the rest of the troop.

I've done Half Dome six times, going for number 7 this year. Sometimes weekend trips, sometimes as part of a full week trip. I'm very familiar with the Merced River canyon thru Tuolumne Meadows, having hiked it 4-5 different times. A good basic weekend trip is Day1: Happy Isles to Little Yosemite, camp overnight Day2: Day Hike to Half Dome and back Day3: Hike back out to Happy Isles You can do the whole thing as a day hike, but its brutal. ( 16 miles rt, 4000+ elevation gain ). If you are staying overnight, you have to check about getting a wilderness permit, there are quotas in effect. Check out this link for more info, though I'd suggest calling directly... http://www.nps.gov/yose/wilderness/permits.htm#reserve There are a variety of ways to include Half Dome as part of a longer trek, which is what we are doing this year. Day1 - Lyell Canyon Day2 - Vogelsang Day3 - Babcock Lake ( recommended ) Day4 - Merced Lake/Echo Canyon Day5 - Little Yosemite Day6 - Half Dome and back to Little Yosemite Day7 - Happy Isles and a HOT SHOWER! If you or anyone else would like more info, feel free to PM me, I'd be happy to help.

Regarding the SPL's decision to fold the smaller patrol into one... Ok, yea, it undermines the patrol method a little bit, but the Scout made a command decision. Boy-run is the operative word here, isn't it? I'm not saying it was the correct decision, but it was HIS decision. Now that he's seen how poorly the meals came out, he has learned something ( and so have the hungry scouts ) and probably will plan better next time. One of the more difficult things we must do as adult leaders is to be silent at times like these. If you countermand or otherwise criticize his choice, you take the chance that he won't feel confident to make other decisions in the future. Just another angle to consider...

Grrr. How very unscoutlike and rude. I can think of several violations of the Scout Law occuring here: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Curteous, Kind, Cheerful, Brave, and Clean. As SM, I would never permit that kind of behavior, be it the Scouts or the Adults. Our troop has had a few adult troublemakers, but we have managed to keep them quiet by continually emphasizing character and teamwork. I've done this by continually bringing up these themes during activities, and a lot of times it comes up in my Scoutmaster minutes. I also make a big point of it a Court of Honors. I guess what I'm trying to point out, is that unless there is a particularly egregious incident, I deal with this kind of stuff not head on, but indirectly, by example. See if you can do the Scoutmaster minute one night, or better yet, find one for your SM so he can do it. Find one that deals with gossip/character issues and the message will get across.

Result, I like your attitude. You are asking fair questions and wanting complete answers. My crystal ball sees a possible candidate for an ASM... :-) With the boys, you'll find some chaoticness ( ok, maybe I made that word up ), but I agree with the other posters in that if the SM only had a few minutes at the end of the meeting, then they are trying their best to be a boy-run troop. We struggle with the boy-run troop. Lots of hand-holding and guidance. Try to be patient and work with the current leadership. Looks like the communication is a bit lacking, but hey, is that much different from real life anyway? "-) IMHO - Don't get all caught up in the uniforming and procedure. Make your judgements based on this question: Are the Scouts learning and having fun? If you get a postive answer there, then all the rest will work itself out. That's my $.02...

Let's not limit cell phone rudeness to kids... the adults are just as bad. I especially enjoy walking down the street and seeing what I think is some nut case talking to himself only to walk by and notice the earbud stuck in his ear. Oh, and the louder the talker, the more important he/she must be, right? And the bluetooth Mr. Spock thingy. Why not just put a 'I am a Nerd' neon sign on your back? Sheesh. And they keep wearing it even when they are off the phone! We had a dinner party this weekend with the neighbors. Mrs Neighbor text messages her daughter about something, then not 5 minutes later, calls her to see if she got the message. Huh?? They must have had 3-4 calls in 20 minutes, about basic minutae. Cell phones are a necessary evil for a lot of us, but with prudent and polite use, they aren't so bad.

Biography of George Washington ( I forget the official title ). Earlier this year I finished the Ben Franklin biography - very interesting guy, that Ben! I also read my Outside and Backpacker magazines over and over... fyi - I've read Shogun, by James Clavell, 3 different times and got something new out of it each time. Its quite a long and complicated story, but extremely engaging and interesting.

Older stuff: Whipping Post - Allman Brothers Locomotive Breath - Jethro Tull Crossroads - Clapton/Cream Not so older stuff: Metallica - Whereever I May Roam Neil Young - Hey, Hey, My, My Newer Stuff: Godsmack - Stay Away From Me That's a short list...

Yellow and the Beav both echo my sentiments: "All Media is Entertainment". The wrestling analogy is excellent. Its not unlike some of the posters on these forums, they post not to promote change or improvement, but mostly to poke serious Scouters in the eye to watch the fallout.

In both Joe and Sue's posts, I don't see mention of how the adult leadership is working together to address these problems ( maybe they are, its just not mentioned ). My staff and I meet monthly and correspond via email in between, on any outstanding problems or issues with our scouts. Having all the ASM's and SM on the same page really helps to alleviate and minimize any problems we encounter. Joe, seems like you are taking a lot upon yourself here. My thoughts are that you should slowly work yourself into the position of authority with the current staff's assistance. Furthermore, I would not concern myself with keeping the bad apples. Finally, you should not be concerned with how the other adults view your actions. If you treat all the scouts the same way at all times, the parents will have no basis to complain. ( If they complain anyway, you'll be perfectly justified in ignoring them. ) Sue, I'm thinking you need to actively engage the parents in a SM conference with the problem scouts ( bring in an ASM or two also ). Give the adults a heads-up on what you are going to say, so you have a unified approach and the scout won't be able to complain about their mean scoutmaster to mommy and daddy. Set some goals for expected behavior ( make them small goals at first, then progress towards larger ones ). That's my $0.02 for what its worth... Good Luck!

ALL media is Entertainment!

I echo L'Bob... why is your SM not addressing this issue? I'm all for a boy-run troop, but sometimes they just don't have the necessary skills when complicated and difficult issues such as harrassment/hazing come up. The SM needs to step in and put a stop to this immediately. I do not allow ANY harassment in my troop. Nothing, ever. I set a standard for behavior and enforce it agressively and immediately. I do not wait for the PLC to step in if I see something amiss. You don't state WHY your son is being picked on... do you know?

OK, this seems very focused on ACHIEVEMENT, ADVANCEMENT, MONEY, etc... quantifiable items that a business would like to show to their auditors.... How about a section for: Did the Scouts have fun? I'm not trying to be difficult, but one of the things I like about Scouts is that I DON'T treat it like a business, but I gauge the success of our program by the look in my Scouts eyes.... I would focus more on Info and Beav... pictures and quotes from the Scouts... how better to show the success of your program?

Let me contribute another point of view: I have always instructed my children to identify themselves when they make a call, ie.. Hello, this is XXXXX is YYYYY there? I do the same myself, that way, there is no question that my call is legit, I'm not a stranger, that I'm not a telemarketer, etc. From my point of view, its annoying when persons don't identify themselves, and I have to ask them who they are. I disagree with the statement 'should it be this way - no it shouldn't'... I definately think it SHOULD be this way. Its the parents' responsiblity to know who is calling their child and for what reason. AND... I don't have to justify that to anyone. It really sounds like that Dad handled it rather rudely, so perhaps that's really what is the issue here. Crew21 has a good sidebar on this.. asking the child to inform the parents with whom he is speaking. Nice.

Not to sound too obvious, but the two camps we went to in the last 3 years had all this information posted on their web sites, as part of the camp 'packet'. Perhaps your camp has something similar posted on their web site ( if they have one, or perhaps the councils ) and you won't have to reinvent the wheel. However, a couple anecdotes from my experience. 1) Yes, you can have too many socks. These guys don't change hardly ANY of their clothing the entire week. I've seen kids pack 4 t-shirts and wear only one the entire week, and they blend in with the dirt so well its hard to find them at weeks end! :-) 2) Don't pack anything WHITE. ( see above ) 3) Mandatory shower on Friday night ( see above ). Have fun! :-)

Ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto. I vote for the APL. Its not fair to relieve the APL of his position just because the adults want 'my go-getter' in that position. It not only might be potentially devastating to the APL, but it will show the rest of the troop that the elections have no meaning when the adults want their way. Boo... hisss.... Your 'go getter' will have his time.. if he is as good as you think he is, he'll earn the respect of his peers and get elected.