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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    The first paragraph really concerns me. How many other COs will drop us?

    The second paragraph infuriates me, hence the emphasis. Either my superiors lied to me about this, or they were lied to by others. But when I was trying to start units This was something I was told to tell prospective COs to help alleviate their litigation fears.

    This is why I stated the COs needed to be part of the settlement, BSA did indeed make promises to protect COs.

    Many existing CO's are watching these developments intently.  I had conversations with two different COR's yesterday regarding this very issue.

    Both have said their CO's are on the verge of walking away, due to what they perceive as a lack of integrity and trustworthiness from local council and national BSA.

    After the sexual abuse scandal/bankruptcy, this is the next shoe to fully drop...  

    Might the individual registration requirements be a move toward dropping the CO structure?

  2. On 6/9/2023 at 10:12 AM, Better4itall said:

    no longer seems up to the task. 

    I love your post.

    Here are a few observations and words of wisdom for all...

    - The Scouts in your unit need you.  Being a unit leader is the most important adult position in Scouting.  Be, know, do.  

    - When you wear the uniform, or identify yourself as a Scouter, you become an ambassador of the ideals and the movement.  Unfortunately, people judge the movement from your words and actions.

    - Although you wear the uniform, and you are an ambassador, you are not responsible for the actions of others, nor are you accountable to explain them.  Do not try.

    - You will always find those who do not demonstrate our core values: The Scout Oath and Scout Law.  Distance yourself from them.  Find a group of adults who agree to hold each other mutually accountable, and you and your unit will flourish.

    - The Boy Scouts of America is a corporation; Scouting is a movement.  The two are separable, in spite of the attempts of the former to monopolize the latter in our country.  (If the BSA goes Chapter 7, what will you do?)

    -  The more integrity, service, and excellence you are able to achieve, and the closer you align your life with the ideals of Scouting, the more those who do not have those traits or ideals will hold you in disdain.  When they hold power, they will attempt to marginalize you.  This is true in any endeavor.  (See Proverbs 29:27)  When that happens to you, go back to the first point.

    • Upvote 3
  3. On 6/6/2023 at 5:42 PM, UKScouterInCA said:

    Does anyone here know what National is doing with the National Medal for Outdoor Achievement?


    The medals have been removed from Scout Stores and supposedly all collected by National and destroyed. The medal itself is a janky piece of junk, so flimsy and lame. But the level achievement you need to reach to earn it is super impressive.

    I for one think it would be an absolute shame if National discontinued this medal. And doing so without any comment period, skulking away in the dead of night, seems super shady. I kind of understand them discontinuing other awards like the NOVA Stem, although I thought they were fun they were always a little like National were jumping on the STEM bandwagon. But OUtdoor Achievement? That is front and center our Core Mission.


    Maybe I can dare to hope that National have realised that the medal is cheap and tawdry and not worth of representing the accomplishments, , and decided to replace it with something more worthy of the incredible achievement the Scouts have made to earn it. Yeah, I doubt it.



    Although nothing has been announced, I believe they are going to axe this one.  There are so few Scouts who earn it, so National may be taking the stance that the demand has not justified the expensive of production and marketing.

    Dad brag:  My Eagle Scout son completed this late last December (completing Wilderness First Aid training was his last hurdle).  Most people have no idea how challenging this award is...

    When we went to order the medal, we hit the same wall... our local Scout Shop folks said there were none available from National Supply, and it appears to be discontinued.  So, I had to call up the most knowledgeable supply person I knew (she works in another council we used to be in).  She had the ability to query other inventories of shops, found one in stock in a distant council, and had it shipped to us.  (I wish Scouting had more people like her.)

    Yeah, the medal and ribbon are a bit flimsy.  But, IMHO, there should be a knot for this one...


    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 2
  4. On 6/5/2023 at 7:46 AM, NDW5332 said:

    But what could I have offered in that moment?

    Probably nothing that would have helped...  good on you for wanting to dive in and potentially set things right.  Many times, "discretion is the better part of valor." 

    • Like 1
  5. 1 hour ago, MattR said:

    Just because they aren't selling a medal and you can only buy a patch, why is everyone saying there's no longer an award?

    Maybe the bsa is trying to cut costs and simplify things. I can't fault them for that.

    The patch and the medal are two different awards.

    The patch is the National Outdoor Achievement Award (NOAA), and it has six separate areas of requirements for which you may earn a segment:  Camping, Aquatics, Hiking, Riding, Adventure, and Conservation.

    The National Medal for Outdoor Achievement (NMOA) is much more difficult, and includes several NOAA (with devices) as requirements.

    • Upvote 1
  6. 1 minute ago, Armymutt said:

    None of the volunteers in my pack have submitted fingerprints.  Doubt anyone in the council has.

    It's PA law here.  All volunteers must have that, a PA State Police check, and a PA Child Services check.  All three documents must be on file at the council office (and with your CO), and be renewed every 5 years.

  7. 29 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

    I've heard from multiple folks that the intention post-bankruptcy was to have adult fees equal the youth fees by 2025. Starting to believe hat is going to be the case. 

    National finally released the metrics for the Order of the Arrow PMP for 2023 (after months of the year are over). Loved this little nugget and the logic given (this $25 equates to FoS donation, so that is pure and clear "profit" off each OA member they want):

    High Performing lodges should aim to increase contributions to councils from $23.00 per lodge member to $25.00 per lodge member. Over the past five years, every High Performing lodge has contributed over $25.00 per member, even when its prior goals were less than $25.00. This goal aims to strengthen relationships between OA lodges and councils in the long run.

    Just keeping feed in the trough...


  8. 26 minutes ago, skeptic said:

    "A background check and insurance can't possibly cost $60."



    Add the cost of fingerprinting in many cases, anywhere from fifty plus dollars from what I have seen.  Locally for the minimum it approaches one hundred dollars.  

    Juat saying: a background without a complete search is not what they need, especially today.

    FBI fingerprint background check, $23.25 for volunteers.


    Now, this is a result of the state of PA contracting with the company to do state employee fingerprinting at $25.25 a head.  Volunteers (who pay for their own) get a $2 discount.

  9. 17 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    One positive out of the MBC fee, now MBCs can camp with troops, ships, and crews  since they are in a PAID position.

    Sounds like what we do with Unit Scouter Reserve already, but now the fee could be less...

    Expect units to latch on to this one for money savings until National & Councils find a way to close that loophole, as MBCs are district/council positions, and do not require approval by the COR.

    P.S.  Look for the "Adults registered solely as Merit Badge Counselors may not accompany units on overnight events." prohibition in the near future...

  10. 39 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:
    It is important to note, existing members will renew their membership during their normal registration/recharter cycle through March 2024. Moving forward all members will renew on their anniversary date. 
    • Existing members’ Anniversary date will be their unit recharter month.
    • New members’ Anniversary date will be the month they joined.

    OK, so, does this mean membership fees will be un-coupled from the unit re-charter process?  I'm thinking through that one, and do not really see a down side, yet...  But wondering about the implementation of it.  

  11. 18 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

    $25 for Merit Badge Counselors (New Fee applies only for Merit Badge Counselors not already registered as leaders)

    Wonder what the impact will be to our local MBC rolls?

    I expect minimal, as most MBCs I know are already registered as leaders.  But I am sure those folks who are not involved with Scouting in other roles will not pay for being a MBC.

    • Thanks 1
  12. Our Troop assists our local American Legion in placing flags for Memorial Day in those cemeteries in their district.

    It's a great history lesson for our Scouts as well, as we have some markers here from the French and Indian War!!  

    In fact, just the day before yesterday was the anniversary of the first battle of that conflict, out near @qwazse's way (or what we here call western Pennsyltucky)

    Battle of Jumonville Glen (a skirmish, really)... where 40 Provincial Troops (accompanied by 12 Mingo natives, including two boys) ambushed 35 Canadiens (French Canadians).

    The provincials were from Virginia, and under the command of a 22-year old Lieutenant Colonel named... George Washington, and it was his first time in combat.

    We also talk a little about each conflict we see markers for ... the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War (with Grand Army of the Republic and Confederate States of America markers), the Indian Wars, the Spanish American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, Iraq, and  Afghanistan were all in cemeteries we placed flags in this year. 

    • Upvote 1
  13. 1 minute ago, Double Eagle said:

    Don't overlook your commissioners help with this.  Commissioners have access to training records that say what course(s) each person is missing. 

    Key 3 and Training Manager (functional position designated by Key 3) can also see exactly what courses everyone needs in your unit.  Post if you want a tutorial...

    • Upvote 1
  14. 8 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

    There should be a nationwide background check standard that would apply to all youth organizations.  One check could cover all youth organizations.  


    All youth organizations are looking for the same thing, to weed out poor candidates that may harm children. 

    Agreed, but not all state police or state child welfare records are shared in national databases.


  15. 15 minutes ago, DannyG said:

    This is what I was looking for.

    Thinking of Committee and COR training... Positions held by older folks who don't have access to the technology as easily.  Try to find some way to offer YPT and position specific training in a low-tech way. Otherwise, I'll just set up a computer lab and help them click through all the online modules.

    IOLS/BALOO is offered by district twice a year in fall/spring. So those folks just have to wait until it comes around again.

    Your council should have a DVD or thumb drive with YPT on it, as there are many who do not have a computer at home to use for the training.  You can borrow this from them to do your training in-house.  If your Key 3 grants you Training Manager functional rights in my.scouting.org, you can enter the training courses for your unit without having to file paperwork with the registrar!!!  The only restriction is that you cannot enter training for yourself.

    Other avenues you can pursue to be a trainer that will be helpful for your unit:

    - You can do in-person Merit Badge Counselor Training

    - If you have  a STEM background, you could do NOVA and SuperNOVA Training

    - Get certified as a First Aid/CPR/AED Instructor and teach classes to your unit

    - Get certified as a Swimming and Water Rescue Instructor and teach Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, and Swim and Water Rescue  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/Aquatics/pdf/430-505.pdf

    - Take the Leave No Trace Master Educator Course and teach all kinds of LNT curricula

    - Take the TREAD Lightly Master Educator Course and teach those skills also

    etc, etc, etc


    22 minutes ago, DannyG said:


    These are also offered sometimes at Summer Camp or Resident Cub Camp.  YMMV.

    • Upvote 1
  16. 33 minutes ago, skeptic said:

    How is this connected to Scouting.?  It looks like a typical sport team shirt or something.  Just asking.


    It's a play on corporate sponsorship.  The Bad News Bears were a misfit baseball team that had no uniforms.  Probably like a few Troops you might know...  the coach took any sponsor he could get to pay for uniforms.

    It's a joke on the thread 😜 

    • Confused 1
    • Upvote 1
  17. 1 hour ago, SSScout said:

    1) The BSA model requires a corporate sponsor of some kind: Church/mosque/synagogue, fire department, hardware store, PTA,  private school,  private tree company, I have seen many different  COs.

    2)  BIG corporate sponsors (Bechtel,  what was Philmont named from? ) give money,  and do it to gain some "good points" (Karma? Is that a thing in the biz world?), publicity is always a good thing.  John H. Smith  Flag Pole....  naming can be done as appropriate.  Smithsonian Institution comes to mind.  

    3) Sometimes it is "anonymous" that gives the money to build a camp dining hall, or a new fleet of sailboats.  Sometimes it is just the woman who says, "no thanks , don't need a christmas wreath, but I love Scouts, here's $20. "

    4) Sometimes it's the Eagle Scout who ages out, takes his "Scout Account" (which he never utilized) and buys the Troop a new Trailer, suitably decorated and down in the corner is the notation "donated by Eagle Scout Jackie Jones, 1998"

    5)  I do not agree with supplanting the usual Scout symbology with corporate logos.  The New Troop Flag will note "TROOP 9999 (Scout fleur de lis) Johnson's Business" if that is appropriate.   On the necker? no.... On the sign out front (""MEETS HERE"")  works for me.  On a T-Shirt? ummmm maybe , depending...  On a ball cap?   Troop number up front, corp logo on the back, perhaps....   

    The Bad News Bears: Chico's Bail Bonds – T-Shirts On Screen

    • Haha 1
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  18. 16 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

    Am I the only one not entirely comfortable with corporate-sponsored scouting? 

    Shouldn't we be in the forest tying knots or drying blisters or something, maybe talking to the trees and animals, stuff that's mostly free because we're anti-materialists? Or am I just too cave yogi about the whole thing?

    No, you are not the only one.


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    • Upvote 1
  19. I have been to camps where the policy is that Scouts must be within sight of adults at all times.  How ludicrous!  And ignored...

    It is a balance depending on activity, age, and skill level.  And you will never get it 100% right.  Will you take risks, or will you eliminate all risk?  If you take appropriate risks, Scouts will experience responsibility and personal growth.  If you eliminate all risk, you will have a Cub Scout-level program.

    I have taken too much risk in some instances (with near misses), and not enough in others (with too much "parenting").  Sometimes, I nearly hit the mark.  When we do, Scouts get it, and really appreciate it.  (They appreciate the greater risk situations, too, but only when there are no negative consequences 😜 )


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