InquisitiveScouter

4 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

To expand scouting beyond those who typically participated?  

LOL, no...

and btw, has it worked?

Just now, PACAN said:

There is theory and reality in the OP question.

Question for the former pros here....Did you receive any Customer Service training in your job?   and  Did you receive any "how to "manage" a volunteer workforce" training?

 

Seems like obvious necessary training for a DE to me since your workforce can make or break you.   If the DE has a "I'm in charge" attitude then his volunteers will say "Yes you are", and you will fail quickly.   Servant Leadership is essential.

 

JMHO.

 

When I first met our new SE, I asked him, "What is your biggest headache?"

He answered, "When volunteers put on a uniform and think they know more than professionals."

We changed the subject to other matters, and I observed him over the next few months.  His actions confirmed the attitude.  Our SE has a disdain for volunteers who have been in this council and active in Scouting for decades. (I have only been here a relatively short time.)  The people he treats treats well?  Donors $$

I have asked... most of those seasoned Scouters feel the same way about the SE.

Not a great basis for a relationship... 

And most of them DO know more than any of our professionals.

34 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

If you are an active scouter you already know the answers to all of things you are asking.   Is it this, what is that, when did this, who did that, if its that then what is that.  I have no desire to word joust and no requirement for further clarification.   You should be able to figure it out, active scouter and all.

Check out the "WORKFORCE RESOURCE GROUPS"

https://www.scouting.org/about/diversity-equity-inclusion/

And ask yourself, what is the hidden message?

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

In both cases they are saying because the COR must approve of all adults on a campout. 

Agreed, because G2SS specifically prohibits MBCs in that role, as that is a District/Council role, versus a unit role...

14 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

My point about rangers and staff is they still have to be registered, even if a unit has several adults.  Anyone on troop overnighters have to be registered and YPT.  Not looking for the 2-deep piece, but rather who are authorized to stay on overnight events.

Got it.  Yes, all on the overnighter must be registered...

The guidance (for the benefit of others) says this:

"All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered as an adult volunteer or an adult program participant.  Adult volunteers must register in the position(s) they are serving in."

So, this gives you WIDE latitude, I think, because it is still quite vague.

But, if you have two adults registered in the position they are serving in, then any other adults, registered in any capacity, should be fine. (Except those who are MBC-only, as they are explicitly prohibited.)

So, some head-scratching questions with this loosey-goosey approach, for instance:

1)  Could two 21-year old Unit Scouter Reserves serve as adult leadership for an overnight camping trip?   As currently written, I say yes, if they are trained (YPT is the only requirement for them), and one of them has current Hazardous Weather training IAW G2SS.

2)  Could two Committee Members serve as adult leadership for an overnight trip?  Again, yes, as long as one of them has Hazardous Weather.

3)  Could two District Committee members serve?  No, because they are registered at the District level, and the overnight camp is a unit-level activity.  That is, they are not "registered in the role".

16 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

I'll have to ask the council the question on whether it has to be any BSA registered and YPT adult

If they say "yes", then why would a Merit Badge Counselor not fit the bill??

OR, if you have two "unit" registered leaders, could they have an MBC accompany them (say, on an overnight canoe trip to help teach and evaluate Canoeing Merit Badge), as long as the MBC is in that role versus in the role of adult supervision??

Isn't that what happens at council or national treks?  (The Philmont Ranger, or council trek leader is not counted for two-deep, as they are not filling that role.)

Hello @Scout368, and welcome!

Best of luck on your Eagle Scout Project!

23 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Well, now I am crazy, I thought I saw it in the G2SS or FAQ. But, I thought it wasn't just rumored, but rolled out. Now, I don't know. 

They hint at it in the FAQ.

National should come out and say it overtly in the G2SS.  I'm still scratching my head as to why they do not.

Communicating in plain English is a skill many have not yet mastered. 😜 

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Professionals are there (IMHO) to raise money to support their compensation which hires more professionals to raise more money for overhead; rinse, lather, repeat.  Looking at the job description for most of our council DE's the focus is on MONEY. 

This is what we call the "self-licking ice cream cone"

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

They are now saying you need to be registered with the unit, at a minimum, not just registered. 

Yes, the G2SS does not say registered "with the unit", but that is the interpretation we have gotten here.

And this makes sense...  your CO should be the one approving who camps with the Scouts in THEIR (the CO's) program.

This is also why you cannot do inter-unit activities with council approval.  (Of course council WILL approve if your CO's approve...)

57 minutes ago, Maboot38 said:

Since moving on from a Committee Chair who did everything for everyone, we continue to learn who should do what, and how to do it. I THINK it falls to me as Scoutmaster to register for summer camp, but looking to confirm. Is it me? 

It depends...

If you have a small Troop... say 15 Scouts or less, and you have the bandwidth, then maybe.

Our Troop is larger.  This job would be too much... so we have one person tagged to do all the Summer Camp admin support.

- Registration of Troop

- Putting in the Roster

- Cat-herding the MB class sign ups

- Sending out notices

- Collecting the fees from family, coordinating payments to Camp, and recording it all in Scoutbook.

- And swim checks prior to camp...

We have a separate person handling all the medical forms and associated admin...

Scoutmaster works with SPL (and PLC) to develop their program for the week: Troop swim, Troop shoot, hikes, competitions, any other events, etc listed in the Leader Guide...

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

LOL, check out the awards pinned to the pants...

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

Well, LL Bean supports shooting sports. 🙂

And Cabela's / Bass Pro Shop

10 hours ago, MrJZhu said:

New scout here - Is a totin chip required for having a pocketknife on outings acording to the BSA? If not, then what rules exsist on what knives are allowed? What is your troops policy?

No.  This is up to your unit leaders, as they are responsible for your health and safety.  (This is their only established veto power 😜 )

Our policy is this:  You should bring your knife on all outings, as it is part of your Scout Essentials.

If you earned your Whittling Chip as a Cub Scout, you may use your pocketknife.  If you did not, then you must complete Scout rank requirement 5: "Tell what you need to know about using a pocketknife safely and responsibly." before using your knife.  (Usually done very quickly upon joining, even if they have Whittling Chip.) 

We expect Scouts to use their knives in order to learn how to use their knives 😜 

Which usually leads to Tenderfoot 4a:  Show first aid for the following: Simple cuts and scrapes (so we review that with them, too, early on)

If you do not use your knife responsibly, we take it until the end of the outing.  If you repeatedly use your knife in an irresponsible way, you may be held back from advancement.  If you compromise the safety of others, you might no longer be in the Troop. (case by case basis on all... circumstances matter...)

With ax and saw, the stakes are a little higher, so you must complete Tenderfoot 3d, "Demonstrate proper care, sharpening, and use of the knife, saw, and ax. Describe when each should be used." before use, unless you are part of a class...  (again, usually done very quickly upon joining)

Reviewed again for 2nd Class 2b: "Use a pocketknife, and a saw or axe if needed, to prepare tinder, kindling, and fuel wood for a cooking fire."

When working on any service projects requiring a pocketknife, see https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf  which requires Totin Chip (TC) for pocketknife use.

Oddly enough, if you needed to use a saw or ax on said service project, the document above does not specifically require TC (even though these are much more likely situations).

We have a good culture of safety here.  If you use these tools unwisely, you get corrected on it ASAP by fellow Scouts.  They watch each other diligently when using these tools.  Even after teaching TC, we have to correct and mold skills often, because they require practice and repetition to build proficiency.

Ask what your Troop policy is...

12 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Before I get sanctioned for my conservative viewpoint and ramblings, I will say farewell to Scouter Foram.  I am a caucasion, Christian conservative who does not agree with the direction, including Scouting, is headed.  Somehow someone came up with the idea that having segregated celebrations at NOAC and the National Jamboree will benefit Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.  This is bulderdash in my opinion.   If this demonstrates Equity then please explain why was there no segregated event for caucasion heterosexual ?   Simply because that would cause so much negativity and claims of racism and sexism the BSA would never recover.  There are some in this forum who feel that differences of opinion should not be mentioned and all conflict could be settled by sitting in a circle and singing cum-by-ya.  Parents rights and responsibilities are being reduced by our courts, people believe that if you're a boy and identify as a girl that's normal and should be accepted.  That is mental illness and needs immediate attention, not a petting and a new pronoun. I pray that people,including members of this forum wake up and return to a rational normalcy.   God Bless and God Speed.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/johns-hopkins-dei-officer-resigns-months-privilege-list-controversy

Chicka bump bump bump... another one bites the dust! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE&ab_channel=QueenOfficial

1 hour ago, Gossmaaf said:

I officially had my first pack meeting as cubmaster yesterday and picked up 1 new scout at the same time, pretty good for my 40th birthday.  Today our pack was approached from a neighboring school for possibly merging units with us.  Does anyone have any advice, lessons learned, or anything that could help me make sure we do whatever is best for the scouts in both units?  I suggested we start by just co-operating the two units as separate entities but together until the parents decide what works best for them. 

I see the obvious situations, such as making sure we meet at both schools equally so we don't create a "takeover" situation and provide the best access to scouts or potential scouts at both schools.  The current adult leadership we would need to evaluate and overlap as well (any advice on that) so we don't have one pack feeling slighted as it comes together.  I was (in the fringes) involved in a Council merger when I was an OA officer and saw some ways animosity can be created as that situation was just a lot to collect (they split our council up as part of it across several other councils).  I'm going to be doing some reflection on that 

I'm new as Cubmaster, and I would love to hear others on lessons learned so I can avoid issues that will compromise the experience of Scouting in either Pack as well as if anyone knows where to find a How-To step by step as online searches came up pretty empty.  Like pack financials, taxes, Chartering Org discussions, etc...

Congrats!

Here's how to work this "within" the system.

1.  Make sure your CO's are good with this.  Check with your CORs.  If the CO's are willing to support a merge, you will be able to make it happen in spite of whatever resistance you meet.  However, if a CO does not wish to "give up" their program, things may develop some tension.  Especially since all gear and money technically belongs to the CO's.

2.  THEN, get COR approval (recommend an email) to conduct cross-unit activities, including camping....

3.  THEN, contact your Unit Commissioner and tell them of this development. Expect a lot of questions to help you go down this road (hopefully.)

4.  THEN, contact your District Executive re same.  Expect some push back.  Council may not wish to "lose" units.  If you do not have the support of your CO's, then you will meet resistance.  

5.  THEN, get council approval (recommend an email through DE) to do cross-unit activities (from different COs), as they must be approved by District or Council.  From the G2SS: "Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring councils; the same territory; or other territory." 

6.  THEN, between the two Committees, figure out which CO you want to have the unit.  What will the unit number be?  If you want to move a unit number to a new CO, you will complicate things, but this can be done...

7.  THEN, come back here for next steps 😜

Here's how to do this "outside" the system.

1.  The two Committees decide which unit will be primary.

2.  Transfer all Scouts to the gaining unit through Scoutbook / Internet Advancement. 

3.  Adults from losing unit must fill out new/updated applications to move positions to the gaining unit.  These will be "multiple" registrations, at no cost.  Do not neglect this step.  Keep your Council Registrar on your side... 

4.  Dispose of gear and funds.  This stuff belongs to your CO, so be careful.

5.  Old unit ceases events.  Does not recharter for the next go-around.

There's much more Devil in these Details, though...

Figure out which track you want to go, and come back for additional rudder corrections, when necessary.

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

If you don't want to participate after the Ordeal, then remove the lodge flap and carry on.  And don't show up at your EBOR sporting the flap and sash, because I WILL ask you questions about your OA experience.  

If you show up wearing your OA membership pin with no lodge flap, then I would ask why, to see if you really do understand there is a difference between OA membership and Lodge membership.

The former is permanent, and the latter is based on paying your dues.

You should not be wearing your OA sash to an EBOR.

29 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Fewer scouts today so councils merge for well you know the script. Seems mostly okay, then a NEW council headquarters building is needed.

MUCH LARGER than the two HQ's it is replacing which served more scouts back when. I mean if we need MORE ROOM to serve fewer scouts,  can't we just use the scOUTing DOORS?

MORE MODERN - Internet? Indoor plumbing? Is Scouting now about Modern?

MORE EXPENSIVE. I don't want to spend a dime on a new Council HQ while a camp is in need of maintenance or program upgrades. How many $million dream HQs were built and then sold (Maine comes to mind)

NEW and Council owned, we are hiring an architect!  Thrifty? Plenty of empty strip mall space.

Here is what got me going ST. Louis Council to build a new 25,000 sq ft council HQ.

https://www.connectcre.com/stories/boy-scouts-of-greater-st-louis-to-sell-hq-looking-for-new-location/

My $0.02,

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

7 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Before I get sanctioned for my conservative viewpoint and ramblings, I will say farewell to Scouter Foram.  I am a caucasion, Christian conservative who does not agree with the direction, including Scouting, is headed.  Somehow someone came up with the idea that having segregated celebrations at NOAC and the National Jamboree will benefit Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.  This is bulderdash in my opinion.   If this demonstrates Equity then please explain why was there no segregated event for caucasion heterosexual ?   Simply because that would cause so much negativity and claims of racism and sexism the BSA would never recover.  There are some in this forum who feel that differences of opinion should not be mentioned and all conflict could be settled by sitting in a circle and singing cum-by-ya.  Parents rights and responsibilities are being reduced by our courts, people believe that if you're a boy and identify as a girl that's normal and should be accepted.  That is mental illness and needs immediate attention, not a petting and a new pronoun. I pray that people,including members of this forum wake up and return to a rational normalcy.   God Bless and God Speed.

@Mrjeff, if you leave, then they win "the battle of the narrative."

I support your being here, and voicing your concerns about the direction we are heading as a movement, and as a country.

Stick around...

38 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

We once had a Commissioner show up at a B/G to present the Pack Charter.  I am not exaggerating, he looked like a North Korean General.  He was a long time Scout/Scouter and was wearing EVERY possible award that had ever been presented to him, from the Bobcat pin to his youth MB sash, OA sash, medals, neck ribbons, etc.  

His uniform shirt & accoutrements must have weighed 50 pounds 😜 

Folks,

It takes all of us to make this work.  No matter where you wind up on the spectrum of moral foundations...

Those on each end balance each other out.

Where are you?  Have a listen... (you can read along with transcript, too)

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_the_moral_roots_of_liberals_and_conservatives/transcript?hasSummary=true

3 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

One can also look at the registered leaders requirements for unit leadership on an outing to see that DEI is not really the same DEI in all cases.  For a male troop, any two leaders can fulfill the requirement.  For female troops they are required to have a female leader.  Male troop, you can have 2 moms and that is super.  Female troop, you have 2 dads and though shall not pass.

Well, @Jameson76, that is because, statistically speaking, men abuse more  than women, right?

NO!  

https://www.statista.com/statistics/418470/number-of-perpetrators-in-child-abuse-cases-in-the-us-by-sex/

https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1825&context=honorsprojects

https://www.statista.com/statistics/254893/child-abuse-in-the-us-by-perpetrator-relationship/

But, they are more likely to sexually abuse...

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens#:~:text=In 88% of the sexual,%2C and 3% are unknown.

1 hour ago, ScoutingMama4 said:

We recently just started a crew and I have a scout that started her Eagle scout project with her troop. She is no longer comfortable in her troop as things have gone array and the mixture between the charters girl and boy troop are so mingled she said that they are officially known as the "hook up troop". I don't have much to say about that, but she asked me if it was a possibility to move her Eagle project over to our Venturing Crew.

We are in a neighboring council. Is this something that is doable? What are the steps to be done? Does she need to start over?

Any help, links, advice would be appreciated!

@ScoutingMama4, welcome!

This is totally acceptable.  However, I believe she would need to get the Proposal approved by the Venturing Crew Unit Leader and Committee Chair.

Where is she in the process?

If her proposal has already been approved in the Troop, she should call the Council or District rep who signed it. (Hopefully this will be the District Advancement Chair or designee...)  I recommend she seek guidance from them first, then get back to the Venturing Crew signatures on the proposal, if that is the way she is advised to go.

56 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Yes. Posting GoFundME or other fundraising events for Scouts/Scouting has previously occurred on this forum.

Actually, @swilliams, it would be ideal if your Scout posted it here, instead of you doing it for him. 😜 

14 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts?

No, there isn't any explanation that does not reduce into the very behavior that those creating the group are trying to correct, stand up against, or bring attention to.

On any form these days, for "Race" I select "Other" and write in "Human."  Anywhere I can decline to enter "tribal" identifiers, I do.

Every human being is unique.  Therefore, there are almost 8 billion current groups to classify them into. (too many for my little old brain to keep track of.) 

Groups of one element 😜 

But, as a mathematician, statistician, risk manager, observer of human behavior, and generally cogitating biped, I do use groups and categories to discriminate (and by that, I mean the un-hijacked definition of the word) with others,  simply to conduct my daily life and stay alive.