InquisitiveScouter

Just now, johnsch322 said:

So I should send @Ojomana private message yet you choose to use this forum to try to correct me……hmmmmm

Choosing to be offended again?? 😛

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Be the friend at the door.

As the one correcting cousin Tommy, send @Ojoman a private message.

30 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

If you are blind to what is offensive, you will continue to offend.

I have a few years behind me and have watched society change over the course of my seven decades. What was said or attitudes towards people have changed because those who were offended spoke out. It started small and grew. I point out attitudes to those who offend CSA survivors hoping to expand their knowledge and hopefully change their perceptions. 

It's a balance, and a coping skill.  As a survivor, I find nothing offensive in @Ojoman's post.  I find the perspective very different than mine, and much more sympathetic to BSA as an organization.

I am not blind to what is offensive, because, for me at least, I look for intent.  I see no intent to offend in those remarks.  Hence, "...even when it isn't there."

Being kind works both ways.

If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for, even when it isn't there.

6 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

My vigil honor name translates to 'likes to talk', after this it may be changed to 'likes to write'... lol 

LOL, mine is "Loud Talker" (a reference to my "command voice"... military types will know what I mean...), maybe should be "Loud Writer", if there was such a thing...

8 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

My Scout Exec in NJ had me resign my position to accept the new post and then had the NE region block the move.

Now, why, on Earth, would he do such a thing?

9 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

The moral, it really doesn't matter if you are local or not if you have the tools and motivation to do the job. 

At the DE level, agreed.  But I am of the opinion that an SE would be much more effective if they were a locally-connected person.  Most funding for a council comes from local sources, right?  As a local corporate entity, I am much more likely to give my money to someone with "skin in the game", as alluded to earlier...

1 minute ago, Ojoman said:

I have seen local people come in and do an awesome job in part because they have a head start on knowing the territory. I could elaborate but there is the 'short' version. 

And they have "skin in the game".  Please continue with the long version.

2 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

75 Years ago the American Humanics Foundation was started for the purpose of training and educating youth agency professionals. a half a dozen colleges were cultivated to offer degrees in Humanics and many of the professors were past professionals from the BSA. They changed in 2011... (https://nla1.org/donation/) but many of their graduates entered the BSA workforce and were solid professionals. We (I was one) were taught about cultivating community organizations and resources, recruiting and keeping volunteers, fund raising and program development. These are degrees that are much needed in the nonprofit world. The training at Schiff Scout Reservation in New Jersey was also a great help. I'm not so keen on the present professional development courses. Councils might also consider starting a careers Exploring or Venture Crew for older scouts and plant the seeds there for coming into the profession. Summer camp staff is another place to cultivate. Alpha Phi Omega fraternity is a national service fraternity that is associated with BSA and councils that serve areas where there are chapters should/could cultivate positive relationships and engage APO in running merit badge clinics and in doing service projects at camps... possibly even have them sponsor and help run local units or activities.  I guess this is more along the lines of what you were looking for. 

Thanks, that's a great start.

Do you believe the current model of moving folks around and pulling talent from outside of a community, especially for SE, is a prudent one for BSA?

I am of the current opinion that it is not.  Please convince me otherwise.

23 hours ago, Ojoman said:

What a new DE needs to become a good and effective DE

First, the right attitude. Should know what the program(s) is and have had some experience with it as a youth and perhaps as a volunteer.

Second, accept and try to live up to the Oath, Law, motto and slogan. No one manages to do this all of the time… well, maybe Jesus…

Third, be totally open and transparent with your volunteers, share your goals, vision and concerns with them and ask them to do the same with you.

Whatever goals and deadlines you have, be professional and keep them in balance. I held a meeting in December with my Cub Summer Camps key staff for planning and my immediate supervisor (south end of a horse going north) told me this wasn’t program time it was membership time of the year and I informed him that every month was membership, program and finance time. You can’t neglect any area of operations even for a month.

Be Prepared by proper planning with the correct people for the jobs at hand. Learn to read people and recruit the right person for the job at unit level and/or district level.

Be the Power behind the Throne, give the volunteers the limelight. Always properly thank and recognize your volunteers.

Communicate well! Communication is a two way street. Listen, evaluate, respond and do so regularly. Regardless of the size of your district plan on direct contact with your unit level people at least every other month. Remember, two way… in person is best but email and phone also work.

Visit your school superintendents and principals and cultivate a solid relationship with them. Help to insure that your units have good access to recruit.

Be enthusiastic! Enthusiasm is contagious! Don’t denigrate other professionals or volunteers.  Share concerns and successes: worry shared is halved and joy shared is doubled.

Do your best and encourage others to do the same… Example is the best teacher.

Be approachable and let your volunteers know that you have an open door policy. Always return messages/calls the same day if possible. Let your volunteers know that they are important to you, to the program and to the kids.

Always thank your volunteers spouses for sharing them with Scouting.

I’m certain I could write much more but this is a good start! I would hope that every new DE has a strong/solid mentor or field director to guide and develop him/her. 

 

@Ojoman, thanks for the input.

However, that isn't what I was fishing for...

You gave great tips on how a DE can be successful.

Instead, I was looking for better ideas for Councils and National to improve the professional corps.  That is, councils and National are responsible for recruitment, training, retention, development, and promotion of their personnel.

They arguably have not been successful at meeting these responsibilities.  

What would you do differently to ensure our organization has and keeps the DE's (and therefore the successive leadership levels) to make the mission of BSA happen?

11 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

True, there is less opportunity for movement but also moving up, when it happens often means relocation and for many that means selling one house and purchasing another which is expensive. I served in multiple councils and had a total of 7 residences. (2 mobile homes and 4 homes and 1 rental) Honestly, if I had it all to do over I would probably not go into professional scouting. Easier hours and less stress in many other jobs. My engagement with volunteers gave me many positive experiences and I do feel that many thousands of youths gained positive experiences and personal growth due to my efforts to support their leaders, run/oversee many programs and build new units. That being said, I look back and I know that my family gave up a lot to support my work. A professional needs to always thank their volunteers in appropriate fashon and it would be nice if volunteers understood the sacrifices their pros make and did the same. 

So, I'd love to know, please... after being on the inside, what adjustments would you make to put the professional corps on the track you think it should be on? 

Trim SE salaries to fill this gap.  Will aid in retention and longer term corporate health.

- A focus on unit service.  And everything viewed through that lens...

- Recruit, train, and support COMMISSIONERS to implement the unit service support.  This is the Unit Commissioners' purpose.  But in the eight councils I have been involved with over my adult years, only one did this well, and Scouting was most successful there, of all others experienced. (But that was also in the late 80's and early 90's.)  

- Low cost, high impact training for unit leaders.  (And encouragement/recognition for unit leaders who complete more advanced training.) I know it is hard enough to get program leaders to take Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (a misnomer, because it is about outdoor program elements, not leadership), but there should also be more advanced skills training available.  Most adults I work with in Scouting have very little outdoor experience, and so they do not have confidence to take kids to the woods, nor to teach and train older youth to become outdoor-savvy instructors and leader-trainers .  I encourage adults to take a merit badge at camp, Pioneering or Orienteering for example.  However, most come away from that experience greatly disillusioned with the merit badge program, for a variety of reasons...   Better, when offered, to take advantage of adult-friendly programs in camp like Lifeguard BSA, or Swim & Water Rescue,  or Paddle Craft Safety (all great programs) I have also steered many adults toward National Camping School/Philmont Training Center/LNT & TREAD Level 2, etc,  to gain additional program exposure to bring back to the unit program (few are willing to give up a whole week to do this.)

- Transparency on council finances.  95% of the people I have shown our IRS 990 to are genuinely SHOCKED at the pay our Board approves for the SE.  They do not see value for the money spent.  Most professionals I have encountered are extremely uncomfortable  talking about finances to volunteers.

- Steer our district and council activities, and our local camp (including Summer Camp) to be more PATROL focused.  Campsites and program offerings are set up to cater to an individual or to a unit.  About the only patrol focused event we have anymore is Klondike... 

I'll search for a previous thread which covered this same topic... there was a lot of good stuff there from others, IIRC. 

23 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

As a reminder, Scoutreach and efforts to serve the underserved have been used by professional BSA staff to inflate membership numbers. Below are two articles, but the abuses were numerous.

Alabama Boy Scouts Accused of Padding Membership (foxnews.com)

Atlanta Scouts Inflated Numbers - The Washington Post

A needed effort, but the administration and potential for abuse is huge.

From that Atlanta article, "Eight Scout officials are believed to have participated in the false record-keeping, said Tom Gay, president of the council's board of directors."

I know the articles are from 18 years ago, but in this digital age, black eyes take much longer to go away...

And, you know there were more involved in both councils... just didn't get implicated in it...

And other councils did the same.

Think any of those folks are still left in the organization?  I do.

Yet another shining example for the mission of BSA, "... to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

I was wondering what OaklandAndy's percentage were compared to?   Sept 2023 or October 2022.

 

Based on some of the above posts, standby for recharter results!!

I know at least three Troops in our area have notified council they will not be rechartering.  Do not know their membership numbers, though.  My guess is that they were somewhat small.... <=10

Several Scouts who want to continue are moving over to us.  And we are getting some gear to help fill in a few of our gaps.

Our attrition was normal.  We had 53 on the books before recharter season... have gained 5 from Troops not rechartering already (so now at 58).  (Expecting a few more in the weeks to come.)  We will lose 6 who have been pretty much no-shows, 1 who is moving into multiple sports, and two (Eagle Scouts) have turned 18 this year.

So, we recharter with 49 out of 58 total... that's 84.4% Not bad, but not great either.  We have seen about a 10-12% attrition rate each year over the past seven years.  That has been holding our numbers fairly steady.

I look at differently... splitting hairs, maybe... I see 7 losses out of 51 "eligible" (not counting adults Eagles or new arrivals)  that's a 13.7% attrition.  Somewhat normal... Gold Level JTE metric met, which is 85% retention...

22 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

That is where Scouting happens, in the units.  So many key district and council volunteers are so far removed from actual Scouts out on actual outings, they have lost their focus.

This is a fundamental truth that escapes much of the organization. 

Expand your net, please, to include National Service Territory and National volunteers, and professionals at all levels.

2 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I'm liking the idea of the Eureka tents.  I've found the tents for $138 and vestibules for $50.  I typically lean toward Big Agnes, but I also remember that young Scouts aren't the most careful of kids.  My only concern is that Eureka doesn't seem to make a footprint for those tents.  Their 2 person foot print is shorter and narrower than the floor dimensions of the Timberline 2.  Guess the kids will have to do what their dad did and use a plastic sheet and tarp.  

We invested in North Face Stormbreak II tents...

Great for local camping and some shorter backpacking trips.  But, has some drawbacks...

- Footprints are extra cost (probably the same with most tents)

- Vestibules are a bit small and make getting into the tent a bit of a yoga exercise

- Scouts must be trained well on correct set up (this is an ongoing issue).  However, once set up correctly, these can endure really bad weather and keep you dry.

- Tent bag isn't big enough (nylon tents needn't be folded... just stuff them into the sack, as the fabric has no "memory"  this also saves lots of time and heartache.  The bags that come with the tents aren't really suited to other than near-perfect folding (a pain), and certainly not stuffing.  Scouts have ripped them up in no time.  After market bags (add to the expense) work great.

Overall, we will not be purchasing this type of tent again.

I am holding out hope for a Hilleberg one day 😜 https://hilleberg.com/eng/

2 minutes ago, Tron said:

Wondering if this is such a jump but; are some small councils prospering because of good information flow, above average economic area, and year-over-year quality programming?

Yes.

And this formula works at the unit level within councils as well...

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

I just don't understand the need for small councils anymore.  Most training and registration is online.  The key now is economies of scale to reduce cost and offer more opportunities.  

Jobs... and feeding at the trough of donations...

On 10/25/2023 at 4:59 PM, LostParent said:

Popping in to try and learn a little bit on scouting topics that I just took for granted in the past.

Welcome!

The very best starting advice is to ask your questions here, and ask for the source material for the answer.  Most diligent posters will give you a link to the source in some BSA material for the answer they are giving.

If it is something that is a matter of opinion (and there is much that falls into that category), then be prepared for a wide range of answers. 😜 

7 hours ago, swilliams said:

Welcome.  Almost every good scouting thing I know came from another scouter at some point in time.

LOL, and most bad things, too 😜

1 hour ago, Expat93 said:

So my son is an Eagle Scout and really doesn't want anything to do with his troop.   He's very involved in the OA and wants to continue with them, but out troop is saying. that he cannot be an OA member without being a Troop Member.  Is this true?   Is it All or nothing?  Our troop fees are ridiculous and he gets zero benefit.  He's 16 years old, does he have to quit everything completely?  The troop is 95% new scouts.

Thanks for the Help

As a youth, he must be a registered member of a unit in order to keep his OA membership active.  It can be any unit he chooses.

If he is not going to be a member of his "old" Troop, then he could transfer and recharter with a different unit.

That said, the primary duty of any Arrowman is to serve his unit, not the lodge.  If he only wants to serve in the lodge, then he is kinda missing the point of the OA.

Wow, that is so wrong... and it shows a fundamental misunderstanding by the SM on how Patrols work, advancement requirements, and Troop organization

If the Patrol elected him, then only the Patrol should be able to un-elect him 😜

Make sure the SM reads the requirements for rank.  PL is not the only position that works.

From the Star Scout requirements, positions held for four months that qualify:   "Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster, or outdoor ethics guide."

There is only one PL for the Patrol, but a Troop can have lots of Den Chiefs, Librarians, Historians, QMs, Buglers, Chaplain Aides, Instructors, etc. etc. etc.  There is NO prohibition I can find on multiples in the "unelected" positions.

One solution:  talk with the SM and review the Star requirements with him.  Suggest, say Outdoor Ethics Guide (especially if your Troop does not have one!!!).  Find the Position Description for that office:

https://troopleader.scouting.org/troop-positions/

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-046_PocketCards17.pdf

Suggest that the SM speak to the SPL about appointing the Scout to one of the positions, with the Scout's input!

Then help the Scout set three (or so) SMART goals to accomplish in his tenure in whatever position the SPL appoints him to.

If you need info on SMART goals:

from the ILST syllabus, page 17, ": Each goal must be specific (clear and understandable), measurable (you know when you are done), attainable (you can do it), relevant (why you are doing it), and timely (done when it is needed)."

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST_IntroSyllabus_9_11.pdf

If the Scout accomplishes his goals in the time period, then that rank requirement is no issue.  If he is unable to accomplish his own goals, have a discussion with him about it, and then decide whether to sign him off...  If he just wears a patch for four months, that should be a no-go!

In over 40+ years, I can easily count the number of times I have seen a Scout use the corkscrew... zero.

Mostly I remember them asking "what is this for?" as they whip out the most unused extensions on their pocketknife, corkscrew included.

And what, pray tell, have you carried with a corkscrew?  LOL

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

It is remarkable to witness the change. A few become great adults.

Yes, I agree!  It is REMARKABLE when the parents finally become great adults 😛  😜 

Ask 10 different Scouters their opinion on knives/tools, and you'll get 20 different opinions 😜

I would differ from @Armymutt on the Hunter,  it has the saw (see my post above), a corkscrew (which Scouts don't really need), and a "gutting blade" (again, not an activity we normally do in Scouting 😜 )

https://www.victorinox.com/us/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Hunter/p/0.8573

After decades of experience in Scouting and in the military, and many years of observing Scouts in the woods, recommend you go with nothing more than the tools on a Victorinox Tinker.  They are about $32.

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Tinker-Red-Swiss-Pocket/dp/B002J94KFG

Or any knock-off of it would be cheaper...

And please do not get anything with a saw on it, like the Victorinox Hiker, even though you can get "more for less"...

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Hiker-Size/dp/B0001P151M

Some of the nastiest wounds I have seen on hands are from Scouts trying to use these tiny saws.  

Have a bowsaw and a cheap pair of needle nose pliers in your Troop tool box... 

When they take up backpacking, they'll appreciate this advice even more 😜 

P.S.  A good pair of trauma shears should be the "scissors" in your personal first aid kit.  Tiny scissors do not "cut it" (pun intended).  Tiny scissors are OK for cutting moleskin or a piece of gauze, but when you need to open or remove clothing for CPR/AED or to assess a wound, you're gonna hate the decision to bring tiny scissors.