Going by the Book, or Changing to Encourage Participation in Open Discussion - Program Posted May 3 1 minute ago, ramanous said: Now, I wonder if this is at least partially the result of unreasonable expectations. The idea that a scout should make First Class in a year? This is certainly one piece of the puzzle. A Scout should make first class when it darn well pleases him, and he has the motivation to do the requirements. In most Troop programs I see, everything is repeatedly spoonfed to them, or outright pencil-whipped. 2 minutes ago, ramanous said: I think ILST and NYLT should be a requirement to get Eagle, along with a meaningful leadership role like Patrol Leader and probably some requirement to participating in creating a troop program. I love the idea of ILST and NYLT being required. An implementation plan might need a bit of work, but I think this is doable. Meaningful leadership roles? Now there's a failure I've been trying to crack the code on for a while. Librarian and Historian (and Bugler and Assistant Patrol Leader, for that matter) can be meaningful leadership positions. This depends on the Scout having a session to set meaningful goals (SMART goals a la NYLT), and having to be accountable for them. This leadership development takes a lot of time and follow up, but merit badges and rank accumulation tend to get in the way. I say make the writing and accomplishment of SMART goals part of the requirement for these leadership positions. BTW, "No" to requiring they must be a PL or SPL. You can be a great leader as a Den Chief or a Chaplain Aide, or Chief-Cook-and-Bottle-Washer. 3 minutes ago, ramanous said: From a scouter preservative, we take various standardized training. But when the Key3 vary from the standard, it makes our roles as adults confusing. I've been called out by the SM a few times for "doing things wrong" when in fact I was going by the book (which is consistent with my experience as a Scout also). Trained adults who follow the program are the most critical element of successful Scouting. You are doing it well when you follow the standards set, and only deviate when good judgment dictates. (And be ready to have your judgment questioned.) 3 minutes ago, ramanous said: Hard to volunteer in this environment where isn't unclear the actual process being followed. Not following the plan (when there is one), also sets a bad example. Bingo.