InquisitiveScouter

3 hours ago, NDW5332 said:

Scoutbook will allow a youth to mark items as "complete" and it would be up to the Scoutmaster, one of the designated ASM's, or the Advancement Chair to Approve the requirement.

We make it clear that this monkey is on the Scout's back.

That is, the Scout is responsible for completing and tracking his own advancement.  If he wants to mark something complete in Scoutbook, fine.  He must then go to any youth who is approved to sign off, or to the assigned Assistant Scoutmaster for his Patrol, to get things signed in his Scout Handbook.  Once the Handbook is signed, he notifies the ASM, who then marks completions in Scoutbook.  The Handbook is primary.  Scoutbook is a back up (for when the Scout loses his Handbook 😜 )

We even have our Scouts contact our Advancement Chair to request scheduling their Boards of Review.

Pro tip:  We use a highlighter to mark things in the Handbook when they are approved in Scoutbook.  That way, at a glance at the Scout's Handbook, we can tell if he is shepherding his own advancement.

1 minute ago, MattR said:

Soros is to blame for the downfall of the BSA? That's a new one.

I think I'm done here. This is a waste of my time.

Quite a leap there, partner...

Answering the question about US institutions in general, per the post above...

39 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

By whom, how?

Soros' group and the US Justice System:  https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/george-soros-criminal-justice-reform-227519

Media bias dividing US social cohesion by hyping incidents (particularly those claiming racial causes):  https://apnews.com/article/poll-misinformation-polarization-coronavirus-media-d56a25fd8dfd9abe1389b56d7e82b873 

Destruction of military readiness through attempts to revise policies about gender, sexual orientation, sex changes, etc., https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/military-readiness-takes-back-seat-wokeness-the-pentagon

Finding "by whom" is sometimes difficult.  But you can see the erosion everywhere.  Can you not?

In many cases, the attack is not directed at destruction of the system, but rather to change it to fit a group's hobby horse of an agenda... with the unintended consequence that the institution begins to crumble, as in our military.

32 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

I just cannot understand this.

Until your post I don't recall anyone, anywhere claiming BSA has a "r...c...."

This smacks of a "straw man" argument where a false, inflammatory statement is made, then to dramatically knock it down.

My recollection of basic logic (Copi-look him up-took a university 3 credit hour course on logic) is that the logical structure of "If P then Q," if P is assumed to be true, then Q is always true.)

So, as applied to your post, if "family members' statements" are presumed to be true (when might they be available for deposition?), then any statement you post after that is TRUE (logically)-even if false.

And, who switched? Exactly, precisely WHO switched?

I am not trying to give you a (pointless) hard time.

But words matter. And the senses, tenses, innuendos, flavors, intimations...of those words.

There are many folks on this site whose lives have been tragically affected.

Every post here raises their hopes of lowers their hopes.

After all they have endured, they do not need a roller coaster ride.

Just Google 'BSA "rape culture"' and you'll get lots of results.

59 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

If this is true, then there's the membership problem right there. We're not delivering our "core product".

We've got a right unit in a right council, which is exactly why I stepped up as a leader also.

@AwakeEnergyScouter, you see this confusion everywhere.

There is a common misconception that our "core product" is Eagle Scouts.  Ask parents what they want for their child out of Scouts, BSA... you'll get this answer most of the time.

Our core product is actually parsed out here:  "The Scouting program has specific objectives, commonly referred to as the “Aims of Scouting.” They are character development, leadership development, citizenship training, and personal fitness."

https://troopleader.scouting.org/scoutings-aims-and-methods/

[Or, in my words, we are about making youth into "physically, financially, and spiritually fit citizen-leaders who have the character needed make moral and ethical decisions."]

The adventure outdoors is just the "laboratory environment" where we meet these objectives.  But that laboratory is a crucial part of the overall experiment.

Although we advertise "Scouts BSA is the traditional Scouting experience where boys and girls can have their share of adventure in the great outdoors."

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/

So, the real problem you come across is a lack of clarity on exactly what it is we are trying to do, and a lack of communication to the real target audience (parents, not kids) of what it is we are trying to "sell" them.

Then we have a problem with delivering on whatever promises we have made, or whatever promises we are perceived to have made, both to parents and to Scouts.

Which is why the great majority finish their Eagle rank and disappear.  

My grade overall, on how we do collectively as an organization is a C-.  For a myriad of reasons.  All IMO, of course.

Just now, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

If this is true, then there's the membership problem right there. We're not delivering our "core product".

We've got a right unit in a right council, which is exactly why I stepped up as a leader also.

Bingo.

26 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I don't really know what's going on in Swedish scouting organization- and strategy-wise, but their recruiting video inspires me to get outdoors and seek adventure, too. It's at the top of their "become a scout" page at https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/bli-scout/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true that also hits hard on that scouting is exciting outdoor adventure.

Their homepage also leans hard into outdoor adventure: https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

And there are queues to join in some places. The pitch to become a leader is partly to get your own kid in faster 😄

Bear Gryllis as Chief Scout in the UK also promises adventure.

Last Child in the Woods is trendy. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Child-Woods-Children-Nature-Deficit/dp/156512605X

IMO it's quite clear that outdoor adventure is what people come to scouts for, so that's what we should deliver. In spades. Ultralight backpacking spades.

 

I love the dirt-smudged hands and faces in that video, @AwakeEnergyScouter!!!

I tell people, IF you want real adventure and Scouting, you need to step outside your (flush-toilet and hot shower) comfort zone 😜 , and accept some risk to get a greater reward.

A saying I love, and use in an SM minute from time to time is, "A ship in harbor is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."

We are no longer the Knights who say "Ni!"  We are now the Knights who say, "Ecki, ecki ecki, ecki, pakang, zum-boing!!"

C'mon people, we put this change out years ago!

See time mark 0:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvsGdJP3ng&ab_channel=KennyFerry

Now, go find a herring!

42 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Good point.

In my experience, "bounce-back" or failed to deliver messages are only displayed in opened Message app, i.e., it is not elevated to app bubble* notification or phone notification?

IMO, Message App Icon should have a red failure bubble for failed sends.

Sorry, I cannot answer that, as I have never had occasion to see a 911 bounce back message.  So, I do not know if it is the same as other message delivery fails...

Might vary by carrier and phone type as well (Android vs I-phone, etc.)

In case you did not know...

A text message requires much less signal connectivity (strength and duration) than a call, or to load up some data.

Some 911 call centers accept text messages.  Your mileage WILL vary 😜 

The Federal Communications Commission REQUIRES all carriers to notify you with a "bounce back" message if your text to 911 does not go through.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/what-you-need-know-about-text-911

If it does not go through to 911, next try sending a text to your designated support person back home.  (Yes, you need to recruit someone to fill this role as part of your trek plan.  Usually a spouse or loved one who will contact authorities if you need assistance or are overdue.)

Finally, in your trek planning, one of the questions you can ask the Search and Rescue agency responsible for your location (yes, you should know who that is, too!)  if they accept texts.

Happy trekking!

55 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

we need you to also help run the camp you also paid to attend

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this

12 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I seem to be in the minority in this view since both BSA and GSUSA are heavily into cabins and amenities. But in my heart, scouting is wild and free.

Most people never experience what you are referring to in your post.

They will forever remain "In Search of Scouting."

I just finished a 6-day river trek, with 10 Scouts and three other adults, in two crews.  All Scouts earned their 50-miler award (the 10 hours of service is actually the most difficult part...)  The older Scouts also did the Kodiak Leadership Challenge. 

Each night, we camped on an island in the river.  A few had pit toilets. Even then, Scouts preferred to dig and use their own catholes. 😛

We brought a good deal of fresh water, but for meals (since we had to boil it anyway) we boiled water from the river. 

In two weeks, we will do a 5-day backpacking trek, where the Scouts will go through the Leave No Trace Trainer curriculum.  Only one night will we camp in an established campground.  The rest will be pristine sites where they must put into practice what they are learning.

And both of these trips will cost less than half the Council Summer Camp fee.

These are "The pinnacle of Scouting experiences..."

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Passport_to_HighAdventure_34245(16).pdf

Enjoy!

If I may offer a kind suggestion:

For your own mental health, please stop posting.

P.S.  As you also find this forum to be distressing, I have gone back and removed my downvote.

Be well.

54 minutes ago, MattR said:

We rarely have cell service in the mountains. If you have service you're either on a peak or, possibly, at a trailhead. I'm glad they figured it out. Also glad the other hikers came by.

A GPS that can mark a point seems like a useful idea. Does all trails allow you to mark a point?

Also there are GPSes with emergency satellite communications. We rent them when we go rafting because the canyons are not only far from signals but far from people.

If you go into the wilderness... (I now define "wilderness" as no cell signal, LOL), consider purchasing one for your crew.

At around $400, they are getting more affordable.

Recommended reading for your edification:

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/

One example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PPJGFKK

Register your device, if you get one!!

Just now, MattR said:

Looking at it from the other side I'm not surprised. They don't have the numbers so, rather than adjust their budget they charge CITs. Summer camp itself is already North of $450.

This is why we put on our own summer camp. And the price was very close to $100 per scout and adults paid nothing. That has its own cost, in time, but it was fun.

We did our own Summer Camp in 2020 (COVID).  31 Scouts in 6 Patrols; 11 adults.  Scouts did shopping in three stages for the week, for cooking requirements thru First Class, or Cooking merit badge, whichever they needed.  Each Patrol had an SPL/ASPL or adult guest for each meal. (Rotated for each meal.)  We had great fun just doing activities... tubing, fishing, canoeing, swimming, exploring, etc.  Scouts said one of the things they enjoyed the most was time to just  hang out with the other members of their Patrol.  (Each had their own campsite.)  We offered Wilderness Survival, Mammal Study, Environmental Science, and Fishing.  Older Scouts taught Totin' Chip and Firem'n Chit to our First Year Scouts.  I then guided some older Scouts through Paul Bunyan.  Also offered CPR/AED training.

They had great fun while accomplishing so much during that trip.  The adults were amazed at how we could pull this off ourselves, with minimal planning and effort.  And we did it for $238.20 a head.  Our biggest expense was for renting the entire campground for the week.  (We had the place entirely to ourselves.)

"A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room."

Yet, when offered to do it again, the PLC declined.  The majority would rather go to a Summer Camp where all the work is done for you (planning, scheduling, setting up camp, shopping, cooking, and dishes, etc.), and you are given a bunch of badges for sitting around a picnic table listening to someone talk.

Our modern council-run Summer Camps are not the ideal unit experience.  They are not "A week of camp life..."; they are a rustic "country-club" experience.  IMO, of course...

3 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Yep. Paid for the "privilege" of staffing the Jamboree. Three times.  Bought the tent, the cot, the semi "ambient " temp showers, the pavilion I worked in, bought the meals, bought the necker, the nameplate, the tables and chairs.  AND THEN,,,,  we paid a fee for the pavilion space for our exhibit.... What would my "labor" have been worth?   The Scouts I helped along the way? The other adults I met who needed a listening ear and some re-alignment of their "purpose" there...   

Scoutson did too.  

Now, if we had been at a resort, where everything was done FOR us, and the towels were replaced everyday, and the showers were as hot as we desired.....   I wonder what the price would've been then....

When I hiked the Camino de Santiago some years back,  most of my stuff was on my back,  the alberges (hostels) were cheap by any standard, the shower was hot early in the day(!), but it was understood the entertainment was on us Perigrinos, and the alberge was either a local government or nationally supported thing.  AND it was equally understood we were dropping alot of tourist Euros along the way.... 

They could really make this easier on themselves.

Adults!  Come volunteer at the Jamboree! You'll need to bring your own camping gear (size limits on the tent), but we will feed you.

Your fee will be to sponsor a Scout from your council to attend the Jamboree as well.  Yes, this could be your own Scout!

I would have done that... would you?

52 minutes ago, cmd said:

My question: did we really charge experienced adult scouters for the privilege of working the jamboree? And then complain about being understaffed?

Yes.  Yes, they did.

My intuition says something is just not right here...

And the whole exchange is rather... weird.  I am choosing not to engage further.

Over and out.

40 minutes ago, Brannigan said:

This person yelled at most of the Pack Leaders for what all perceived as unprovoked. It's feeling like there is a negative bias coming from most of you, this was a good thing. This person was asked to step down because they treated every one like crap, was verbally abusive. Also, this person refused to submit applications for all leaders who disagreed with them. One applicant, in disagreement asked about whether we could have a campfire (allowed), calmly & politely said that he thought that we should have one because of where our Scouts were in training & experience. His application never saw the light of day, ever. There is so much more. We all have times that we disagree, what's important is how we deal with such.  That is what reveals good character. However, when you disagree with this individual, you were yelled at and/or punished in unreasonable ways. This is not one of those many various times in life where I was wrong, this individual is a monster, all of us agree about this. The Council was not light in thought or consideration to do this. *BTW, y'all throw those "Negative Rep" things like used Kleenex!

Kleenex?  No...

You got a negative reply from me for your post:

"Well, this conversation appears to be unnecessary as the questionable replies appear to no longer exist which is kind of telling in and of itself. Good day to all."

You got people who did not see eye-to-eye with you on an issue that we have only one side of the story on...  I certainly did not understand what your message meant... "questionable replies appear to no longer exist..."  But then you become condescending and dismissive with "...which is kind of telling in and of itself. Good day to all."

That is why I gave you a negative.  Please put a more positive expression in your tone.  You catch more flies with honey...

mene, mene, tekel, upharsin

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Looks like South Korea (govt, media, citizens) has started judging accountability for fiasco. WOSM? BSA? Canada?

"While thousands of Scouts spent their time away from their original campsite, ruling party politicians sought the person accountable for the disaster that put hundreds of youngsters who were heat-stricken and exhausted to clinics and hospitals. Kim Hyun-sook, , the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family , had her name put on the top of the list of the people who were the source of the problem by the ruling People's Power Party lawmakers."

Whether she has been a setup scapegoat, I do not know, She cannot be the only one who failed.

Source:

https://www.ajudaily.com/view/20230811170705185

Blame Canada!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA&ab_channel=Movieclips

10 minutes ago, MattR said:

Yes, it's miserable but they got to go home. Nobody got caught in the hurricane.

All I found was that 23 people across all of S Korea died due to heat. The scouts did okay. Going to the hospital for dehydration or eating bad food is not fun and a lot of scouts are angry at someone, but that's not the same as trauma. Money can be replaced.

I'm not saying all was fun and good. Certainly there are 40000 upset people. I feel sorry for them but this won't get fixed until a lot more is understood. There are a lot of events that led to this mess. The S Korea scouting organization is only one part of it. Something tells me that a month ago a lot of other people knew there was a problem and nothing was done about it. Were there any sort of intermediate check points that had to be met? They said they'd put in trees. That idea could have been checked 6 months ago. The food and toilets could also have been checked. Was there ever a plan B? Was there ever any sort of check that this was a good site to have that many people in August? Apparently not. In other words, the proposal was nothing more than a sales brochure - promise whatever is needed to win the event. Who's fault is that? Certainly S Korea is partly to blame but they were just playing by the rules. What about WOSM? It might be that WOSM doesn't have the budget to oversee such a big project. That's fine. Just make it smaller, or smaller and more often, or just pick one or two sites on each continent and rotate through them, or whatever. But unless people dig into what went wrong this will happen again, and next time it might be something faster moving than a hurricane.

Follow the money...

6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

This is interesting.  Supreme Court put the Purdue Pharma plan on hold ato hear arguments about allowing non debtor releases.  One wonders if this could give a bit of fuel to the appeals against the BSA plan.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/10/politics/supreme-court-purdue-pharma-opioid-settlement/index.html

 

 

Additional background:

https://www.bloomberglaw.com/external/document/X42S2V68000000/bankruptcy-professional-perspective-constitutionality-of-non-con

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4777

Wonder why this bill died in Congress??

1 minute ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

This sounds a bit like a good old boys network where performance is irrelevant and you don't want to be too talented or you might make someone feel bad so that they target you. 

Lack of financial transparency, clearly a problem if embezzlement charges were brought, sounds like a general and ongoing problem for the BSA. Demoting someone who brought embezzlement to light is very problematic, especially for an organization that's supposed to have honesty as a value. If heads didn't roll in that council, then that's an indication of the general culture.

Welcome to Boy Scouts of America!

Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly @DuctTape is correct d some SEs are indeed despots.  BSA pros have been going on for some time. I remember an SE telling his subordinates how to do it on the district level. 

My observations over the years:   

Turnover of DE's is extremely high.  In general, those that take the role out of a passion for Scouting, helping youth, and program in the outdoors are rapidly disabused of those notions under the whip of money and membership, often being asked to depart from the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

So, many, many leave after a short time.  Those that remain (there are exceptions!!!) are often not the type of person we would want in that role...  And the long production line of poor leadership and deficiencies in executive development begins. 

The product is people who hang on in horrible, unethical work environments long enough to get vested in a pension program, and potentially get on the "SE Gravy Train" of an inflated executive salary, if they can work the system and get hired into that position in a council somewhere.  And their primary goal is preservation of that system, which has rewarded them for their perseverance.

Again, I have met some wonderful counter-examples.  But, on the collected whole, I think my assessment, although negative, is accurate.

And I love to hear about those successful counter-examples, so fire away! (They are what give me "a fool's hope") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0S_MebzyzQ&ab_channel=Ejdamm