InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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16 minutes ago, qwazse said:
NO PLAQUES, PLEASE!!!
I said certificates... and NO PLAQUES, agreed!
shoulda said gift certificates or gift cards
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3 hours ago, qwazse said:
I’ve learned that every set of adults is different. When you have a contentious or unmotivated lot, it can be a hard slog. When everyone leans in a little, great things can happen … especially when the scouts start imitating those adults!
I’m not beneath bribing adults who might lean in with chocolates or flowers. They are so precious.
Or knots, or certificates, or the Troop paying for their Scouting classes or outings!!!
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35 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
I have used that term myself lately, for both "Hollywood Indian" ceremonies and Scout uniformed ceremonies.
But maybe I am spoiled. My lodge growing up had a relationship with the local nation, and had members on our LEC. One of the guys I worked with and did ceremonies with had an uncle on the tribal council. We worked with them to improve our regalia and make it more authentic.
Lately it seems as if folks could care less about truly mastering ceremonies. We practiced and memorized ceremonies back in the day. We worked on both chapter and personal regalia. sadly I have seen ceremonies thrown together with folks who have never rehearsed together before the event. I have seen folks read from scripts at podiums. I have seen Ordeal ceremonies where only 2 people read the script. And I have seen adults ad lib a Call Out not even in uniform.
Really sad thing is that the chapter heavily invested in researching authentic regalia and spent money to by supplies needed to make the authentic regalia. But 10+ years after purchase, the itemsare still in sealed bags waiting to be made.
Again, Native American Heritage Preservation is not in our mission set... and never was.
Another "cringy" is watching drumming, singing, and dancing... especially when there is no meaning attached, Then it becomes blind mimicry, and pretty bad at that.
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11 hours ago, cmd said:
I think another fun orienteering-based activity would be to take a hike and do a scavenger hunt along the way for features that would be listed on a map: old stone wall, streambed, large rootstock, lone tree, reentrant, etc. If you can get a trail map, even if it isn't a topo one, they could draw in the symbols that correspond to those features. Or even without a map, just have some large copies of the symbols and when they find something that is represented in the list show you the symbol.
make and print your own basic topo maps at caltopo.com
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28 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:
AES, I experienced this while I was in Sweden as well, and looked (admiringly) at it as a deep connection to familial, community, and cultural roots. You have expressed well exactly what the issue is here... people who have no connection with something deeply meaningful (to those with a connection to the culture) are making attempts (often poor) to copy (with sometimes embarrassing results) for no reason other than some fictional ceremonial purposes.
Thank you for putting a "Scandanavian" slant on the context of this discussion. It is helpful to shed light on the issue.
(Min fafar var Svensk.)
P.S. Approaching Midsommar 1987, I had the distinct pleasure of helping to construct the midsommarstång!! I went into the forest to help gather flowers and birch branches for the pole!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9bJpgyf1X4&ab_channel=GraceonTour
The Swedish Scouts taught me the song, "Lasse går i ringen", and on Midsommar, we tried to break the record for dancing!! (Apparently, there was such a thing.) The sun set around 10 PM (IIRC), but I only made it till about 3:30 AM before I gave out 😛 Sunrise was about 4:00 AM!!!
A new world of history, culture, food, and language opened to me by the International Camp Staff program of the BSA!! (Now cancelled... https://www.scouting.org/international/international-adventure/cancellation-of-the-international-camp-staff-program/)
And a re-connection to some of my family roots!
BTW, the dress and embroidery were gorgeous!!
https://ritualtrip.com/midsummer/what-sweden
Thanks for the trip down memory lane 😜
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1 minute ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
I'm not that familiar with rules for regalia, so I have what may be a basic question: are there rules (formal or informal) around needing to have a family connection to the place/people the regalia is for?
I ask because it reminds me a bit of how folk dress works in the Nordic countries. Each locale has its own and wearing it is a statement of being from the place the folk dress is from. They may not be commercially down, they must be hand-sown and ideally inherited. If you roll up to a Midsummer celebration in a folk dress for a place you have no connection to, you're going to be seen as a liar. It's just not done.
Last Midsummer, we went for a very traditional celebration in the area of Sweden that my family is from. It's pretty culturally conservative, to the point where one particular valley was still writing with runes in the 1800s. Since I have my grandmother's folk dress from the town we're from, I had a number of people in the local folk dress come and ask where it's from. Make no mistake, this was a "are you one of us" question, because it's from the same region as opposed to all the city slicker tourists coming there just for Midsummer. (I did not mention that we flew in from abroad!) Had I said "I bought this on the Internet because I thought it looked cool", that would have been highly frowned upon.
They way you make a high-quality folk dress takes a lot of passed-down knowledge... In my grandmother's case, a lot of sewing, embroidery, and weaving classes. Can't imagine it's easy to make regalia either. That's what makes me wonder how you get high-quality regalia without a living connection to the tradition they come from.
AES, I experienced this while I was in Sweden as well, and looked (admiringly) at it as a deep connection to familial, community, and cultural roots. You have expressed well exactly what the issue is here... people who have no connection with something deeply meaningful (to those with a connection to the culture) are making attempts (often poor) to copy (with sometimes embarrassing results) for no reason other than some fictional ceremonial purposes.
Thank you for putting a "Scandanavian" slant on the context of this discussion. It is helpful to shed light on the issue.
(Min fafar var Svensk.)
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8 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
Cherokee 729,533 Navajo 298,197 Latin American Indian 180,940 Choctaw 158,774 Sioux 153,360 Chippewa 149,669 Apache 96,833 Blackfeet 85,750 Iroquois 80,822 Pueblo 74,085 Got it, but you missed the point 😜
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18 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
Personally, I think we should go to leaders of the largest nations in the USA and ask them what we should consider doing. I could see changing Indian Lore to be more about current native Americans. Perhaps sharing use of camps for Pow wows. Service projects in reservations. etc. Perhaps that could lead to NAs leaders also talking/teaching their history and other partnerships.
I would hate to see a complete break, but I do agree change is needed.
574 recognized tribes in US. What about native Hawaiians??
What qualifies as a "largest nation"??
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13 minutes ago, malraux said:
I personally am ok with either path, even if I preference for one of them. A lot of the current approaches seems to very ad hoc instead of routinized. That might work for past times, but now one council or lodge being inappropriate can show up on YouTube and give the whole organization a black eye (micosay looking at you)
Neither the BSA nor the OA has a purpose or mission as a Native American Heritage Society.
I love what the OA is at heart, and it has nothing to do with any real Native American lore.
I say ditch it, and walk away.
Structure it around the colonial period and a call to service for freedom. I can think my way through that set up easily.
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11 minutes ago, RainShine said:
Yeah I was expecting Scoutbook and SignUp Genius, and Ive learned some troops use CheddarUp. One Scoutmaster I spoke with locally is enthused about troopwebhost for all this.
InquisitiveScouter, you guys are light years ahead of us. If I quit my job and started now, how long would it take to set all that up?
It took me about 2 years to change the culture of the Troop. And I am retired and spend most of my time working at the unit level. It's been running OK for about 4 years after that, but it is still on shaky ground because people are lazy and apathetic... adult volunteers, Scouts, and parents.
I give it about eight months after I depart to fail... unless a like-minded dedicated Scouter comes along to shepherd the process and hold feet to the fire.
However, most of the principles in all this--- PLC and Patrol Method--- is the heart of Scouting, and in ALL the literature you read. You do not actually find many units who use the Patrol Method well.
Best wishes!
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In our lexicon, the terms "morals" and "ethics" ought to be decoupled.
Without a concept of god, there is no basis for morals.
https://theconversation.com/morality-requires-a-god-whether-youre-religious-or-not-42411
There is only ethics, and ethics change according to the consensus of people...
The new Scout Oath:
I promise do my best to follow my conscience and do my duty to my family, community, country, world, and universe, and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and ethically straight.
The new twelfth point of the Scout Law is "Ethical"
New Mission of BSA:
"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical
and moralchoices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."There, BSA... fixed that for you.
"As for my family and me, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15
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5 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:
If that is what you believe, then you are perfectly fine to believe that. You may well believe there is an actual answer in there, but others may not. You may well have convincement in that, others very well may have an entirely different point. The problem is - where is the ironclad proof that one view is right and the other wrong? The question for me is not should we allow or not allow atheists/agnostics, it is why do we need to even have it part of Scouting, especially when Scouting takes every possible step to avoid trying to "take a side" in this element? The BSA clearly doesn't believe that a side must be declared, considering that they have allowed Buddhists to be members for over a hundred years, have no issue with Hindus being members, or even wiccans. I know three individuals who earned Eagle as a youth that are atheists or agnostic today. Leave the twelfth point of the Scout Law, but if we aren't declaring an "arrival point" or consensus on what that spiritual point is that must be reached by age 18, then we need not make any declaration on it other than accepting that we are all trying to understand our purpose and it very well may be a true lifetime journey for us to have an understanding of what it is we believe.
This is the route that Trail Life USA took. Scouts there can be of any/no faith. Adult leaders must be Christian.
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No survey here, and I routinely get them...
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We use Scoutbook.
The PLC decides our trips and events during the Annual Planning Conference. (We have two APC's per year, so we always have a minimum of six months of activities on the books...) An adult helps the Troop Webmaster and Troop Scribe enter the events in Scoutbook (due to Scoutbook edit permissions.)
For "regular" events, our planning horizon is 90 days. Prior to the 90-day clock starting, the PLC has to designate a Youth Planner for the event. The Committee tags an Adult Planner. The Youth and Adult Planner use this checklist (a bit outdated, but still useful...) to plan for the event. All details go into Scoutbook, and an appropriate RSVP date is set and entered into Scoutbook (I wish there was a feature for this.) At the suspense date, the RSVPs are closed, and the trip is set. At that point, Scouts and families are financially obligated if tickets/groceries/etc are purchased on their Scout's behalf. Changes are on a case-by-case basis after RSVPs close.
There is a full PLC each month, usually the meeting night following a camping trip. (No regular meeting then.) At that PLC, they review the trip planning for the next three outings (90-days out, 60 days out, and next outing) They plan activities, schedules, etc. No, they are not good at it, but remember who we are dealing with 😜
The meeting before the trip, all menus must be approved by the ASM assign to that patrol.
Planning and prep for gear and meals is done by patrol. We set an overall budget (usually about $20 per person for food for the weekend) and the patrols pick their shopper. Sometimes, patrols will combine if there are only one or two from a patrol going. If the shopper exceeds the budget, their family eats the overage.
The patrol shoppers buy and submit a receipt after the trip. We ask parents who take them shopping to cover the cost until reimbursement.
All accounting is done via Google Drive shared spreadsheet after the trip, with the Adult Planner, Youth Planner, Troop Treasurer reconciling costs. Once reconciled, charges and credits are issued in Scoutbook. We haven't reached nirvana on this, but we are close.
Rather than paying outright for every trip, some parents deposit money into the Troop account, which is tracked in Scoutbook and debited/credited accordingly. Some parents wait and float a debt... At $200 debt (for past events), your Scout is no longer allowed to participate until you clear the debt.
We have had a few people skip out on the Troop, to to tune of about $30 to $50 on average. This happens about once every other year. Most of the time, we eat that cost, or count it as the cost of having that family exit the Troop, if you know what I mean. (Happy to elaborate, if needed.)
This way, we almost never have to have small sums of money change hands.
As it turns out, each Scout in a patrol does the shopping about once every six months. The amount credited to their account for the groceries covers their participation for the next six months...
Parents can view all credit/debits/balances directly in Scoutbook. It is a wonderful tool.
All these policies/procedures are in our Troop Handbook.
Hope this helps...
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1 hour ago, EaglePanther said:
Of course my favorite aspect of this is the title of the executive who sent out a survey surrounding Scout usage of and respect for Native American culture - Chief Scout Executive
LOL, "Chief" is an English word. And there are/were tribal chiefs (chieftains) around the world in multiple countries/lands throughout history. It is not "appropriation" to use that word.
The etymology is French...
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13 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
Are you saying that the BSA and most members thereof see themselves as their own, separate scouting-like movement that shouldn't align with any other scouting-like organization?
Yes, I think that is an accurate assessment
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2 minutes ago, RichardB said:
I'd suggest to your list that CPR is a skill every youth you supervise should know, practice and understand not to stop until professional help arrived. In my tenure as a Scoutmaster, professional trainers were brought in for the youth in my unit and they did well in first aid events at camporees.
Agreed!
I met you at Philmont some years ago when I was there at PTC getting WFA Instructor certified. (I'm sure you thousands of people 😜 ) I have about 50% of our unit currently certified in CPR/AED, and work to get/offer training to folks in our council. Have trained over 200+. Now, getting folks to dedicate time and effort to do First Aid or Wilderness First Aid training is a challenge.
I've been pushing for an AED purchase for our Troop trailer, but that's a high-dollar pilferable item, so we have not gotten consensus/committee approval to purchase yet. (About 60-70% of our camping is car-camping.) It's always tabled for further discussion.
Thanks for the input...
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6 minutes ago, RichardB said:
Beware Multiple Comorbidities and cognitive decline.
BSA known issues: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/risk-factors/
@RichardB I heard this recently, and it rings true, but... comments.??
"As a group, youth are more likely to be injured on Scout outings. Adults are more likely to die."
LOL
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2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:
NO BACON. I hate this discussion.
How about apple-smoked pork belly? Is that a suitable substitute?
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59 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Hydration, arch supports, support hose, hiking poles, Gold Bond (cornstarch please), COFFEE, tylenol, albuterol, damnitall, CPAP, find a younger more fit scouter, ultralight backpacking, ear plugs (helps with helicopter noise), no bacon (enough)...ow, oh aches, oh da pains. Remember back in the day when we were more physically strong and mentally awake?
Speaking of mentally awake, McMaster University (Canada) found that continued use of GPS is contributing to our cognitive decline. The study recommends orienteering...
Researchers hypothesized that the physical and cognitive demands of orienteering, which integrates exercise with navigation, may stimulate parts of the brain that our ancient ancestors used for hunting and gathering. The brain evolved thousands of years ago to adapt to the harsh environment by creating new neural pathways.
Those same brain functions are not as necessary for survival today due to modern conveniences such as GPS apps and readily available food. Researchers suggest it is a case of “use it or lose it.”
https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/finding-a-new-way-to-train-the-brain-orienteering/
Your health suggestions?
I'm going to ask my doctor for a prescription for damnitall. (Dam-nit-all). He loves a good quip, but has probably heard it before 😜
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55 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Hydration, arch supports, support hose, hiking poles, Gold Bond (cornstarch please), COFFEE, tylenol, albuterol, damnitall, CPAP, find a younger more fit scouter, ultralight backpacking, ear plugs (helps with helicopter noise), no bacon (enough)...ow, oh aches, oh da pains. Remember back in the day when we were more physically strong and mentally awake?
Speaking of mentally awake, McMaster University (Canada) found that continued use of GPS is contributing to our cognitive decline. The study recommends orienteering...
Researchers hypothesized that the physical and cognitive demands of orienteering, which integrates exercise with navigation, may stimulate parts of the brain that our ancient ancestors used for hunting and gathering. The brain evolved thousands of years ago to adapt to the harsh environment by creating new neural pathways.
Those same brain functions are not as necessary for survival today due to modern conveniences such as GPS apps and readily available food. Researchers suggest it is a case of “use it or lose it.”
https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/finding-a-new-way-to-train-the-brain-orienteering/
Your health suggestions?
My health suggestions are more along the lines of hygiene and first aid...
- Bring some wet wipes. For after toileting, or at night prior to bed for a "bath" using a few... clean in this order: 1. Face (face, neck, ears) , 2. Front (torso and armpits), 3. Feet, 4. Fanny (groin and rear), 5. Fingers (wipe and and sanitize) After wet wipes, do the Gold Bond (use gold container = body powder, do not use blue container = foot powder with much higher menthol content. Unless you like the ICY BURN 😛 Talc dust is bad for you to breathe in, so do this outside, not in your tent!)
- Bring diaper cream with zinc oxide. Best for dealing with chafing (Scouts love to wear wet swim suits all around camp... after a day or two, you see them doing the "penguin walk.") The cream can also be used to cover a bad sunburn. Zinc oxide is a sun block versus using a sun screen which still allows some UV in.
- Trim (do not shave!!) your armpit and groin hair before going into the woods (especially long term).
- Trim your finger and toenails before going into the woods
- Invest in removable shades for your spectacles. Your eyeballs can get sunburned!! (That's what snowblindness is, and it can happen when you are on the water also!! see photokeratitis )
- A WIDE brimmed hat!! Can't tell you how many sunburned ears and necks I have seen from Scouts/Scouters wearing baseball caps.
- A well-equipped First Aid kit!!! The checklist in your Scout Handbook is an awesome start!!
- First Aid knowledge is priceless.
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21 minutes ago, Scouterlockport said:
If you feel that way then we shouldn't listen any of our nations founding documents.
???
From the Declaration of Independence:
"...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.."
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--"
"We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions,..."
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, "
From the Constitution, here's one that is a head scratcher...
"...done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names..." Although you could argue they were just using the convention of the day, it does hint at the cultural background of all signatories...
John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free.
etc, etc, etc...
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48 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
I agree that it would be unscoutlike, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, so it's helpful to hear at least one American scouter affirm that basic view. The wall of Christianity is intimidating sometimes, especially in view of US society as a whole, even though I know very well that the scouting movement explicitly isn't a Christian movement. There clearly are a lot of people who want to make it one, and it's hard to tell how well they've succeeded. Had a lot of them systematically not left the BSA already I don't think I would have dared pick Cub Scouts over Brownies or whatever the young scouts in GSUSA are called.
I did see the religious awards, and we just threw a sangha party to celebrate that my scout earned theirs! I'm quite proud actually, that was a lot of material to get through. I had to start with bribes of tea and cookies like they give the littlest nuns candies during sadhanas, but then the interest in the life of the Buddha took over and the cookie-eating pace slowed significantly, and then they wanted to finish the whole thing up through his paranirvana even though it wasn't required for the award.
When we went to our center in uniforms to help open the shrines and participate in an adult public sit for the first time we flushed out a number of old scouts, all of whom were surprised that the BSA has anything for Buddhists.
The WOSM adult friendship scarf is white with a purple edge, which says "Making a Better World". It so happens that when you thank a teacher for teaching in our lineage, you offer them a white scarf as a symbol of your primordial buddhanature, the ultimate totality of what you (and also they and everything else) are. So, since the friendship scarf is also white and the edge message is not coincidentally similar to our socially engaged vision of creating enlightened society, I blessed and offered one to the senior teacher who oversaw my creation of the curriculum details. She also is an old scout, so that seems doubly appropriate. She also just left on a pilgrimage to see our current lineage head, so instead of the customary champagne toast to the lineage I blessed an extra one for him to send with her as an offering. ⚜️☸️ Hoping we can let more people in the mahasangha know about the possibility of Buddhist scouting.
Thank you very much for your support! Although, I'm your sister ☺️
OK, sister!!
A correction... BSA has nothing for Buddhists, nor any other religion. Religious emblems are offered by private organizations from various faiths. When a Scout earns one, BSA recognizes the achievement with a knot.
To get an award, you must contact those non-BSA organizations:
https://www.scouting.org/awards/religious-awards/chart/
Scouts may earn different awards.
After receiving an Award, you may get the knot to wear (in place of the award medal) from your Scout Service center.
https://www.scoutshop.org/nsearch/?q=religious+knot
Scouts who have earned different awards wear the same knot.
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10 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
This whole letting it all hang out is difficult for me, and part of that is definitely cultural.
https://satwcomic.com/the-easy-way
So they really do do Christian services at camps regularly? Sigh.
Does this mean I can practice my Buddhism as if I was at home? I've sat outside my tent, hoping that people write it off as trendy nonsense, but I try to hide my land spirit offerings and such because I don't want any questions. It's private. And I don't want to accidentally be seen as proselytizing to others' children! I don't know that I would be comfortable doing even foundational and Mahayana practices in public view even if others wouldn't mind, but I can't help but suspect that they would in fact mind. I'd hate to find out that they do, and ruin friendships.
Not sure what my scout will want to do, but it will be good to be clear from the start that they don't have to go and that it really is ok to be different.
Brother, I wholeheartedly encourage you to practice your faith as you see fit.
If any Scout, Scouter, or person has a problem with it, then they are being un-Scoutlike.
BTW, have you seen the Buddhist Sangha Award for youth?? (Metta for Cub Scouts...)
Or the Bodhi Award for adults?
https://www.buddhistchurchesofamerica.org/_files/ugd/458b11_07bacc39c7714155b86c0d9075103570.pdf
Double Dipping
in Advancement Resources
Posted
During my SM conferences, I ask each Scout, "Other than you 😛 , who is the best Scout in this Troop, and why?" And then I challenge them to emulate the successful behavior they see in others. I also ask them, with a promise of anonymity, "Which Scout challenges you the most, in either a positive or negative way?" In about 75%(?) of answers that they bring up a negative example. Usually some bullying or poor behavior that goes on when adults aren't watching. I take notes and I observe more closely to address the behavior. Often, Scouts talk about how someone goes to merit badge colleges or summer camp and gets "free merit badges", where they do no work, but get the badge, or has their parents sign up as MBC's and gets them that way. (Our newest Eagle Scout candidate has completed four Eagle-required merit badges that way, and the Scouts often point to this as a negative. I agree that it is bad optics, but ethical behavior starts in the home, and if his parents aren't modeling it, then we will have much less positive impact in the unit.)
Scouts talk, and they have their own "pecking order" when it comes to evaluating who is a good Scout and who isn't. We try to monitor this peer-perception system, and interject truth when needed, because, like most organizations, there is gossip and misinformation everywhere.