InquisitiveScouter

Here's what we really need.  Invoking Murphy's Laws of Combat, #2:  If it looks stupid, but it works, it isn't stupid 😜 

I just hope the brim is as wide as the old BSA Expedition Hat  I do like that is is oiled cloth, versus the old felt one.  That felt hat is hot in the summer, and the dye would bleed out when it got wet or sweaty.  Maybe the new one will be a bit cooler as well.

4 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

My advice...save yourself a lot of work and money.  Kraft Mac and cheese, poptarts and peanut butter/jelly on white bread with no crust, and juice boxes.  Don't expect them to eat a balanced meal of "adult" food.  That's not what happens at home.  (Observations of my grandkids)

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/childhood.html

Best when taught by older Scouts.

If older Scouts or an adult do it, just like everything else, use EDGE.  (Which means they see one demonstrated before having to do it.)  Too many times I see this turned into TWGL-EDGE  (pronounced Twiggle-Edge) Tell, Watch, Gasp, Laugh, then realize you need to do EDGE. 

Welcome to the forum!!

1 hour ago, HethSlaton said:

but what is the best way to allow the 10-11 year old crossovers do this safely as well as disposal of the grease too afterwards?

Teach them... 😜 

Some notes that will definitely raise some hackles around here... enjoy the discussion.

1.  You can select meats that have lower fat content, or all already cooked, and therefore produce less grease.  They are more expensive.  Think 93% lean ground beef instead of 85% lean.  Think brown and serve sausage patties or links.  (Once they master these, they can move on to raw meats...)  Or, here's a wild idea... teach them about tofu!!

2.  For their first few trips, recommend you avoid the dreaded three... pancakes, bacon, and scrambled eggs.  (Let the fights begin...)  Messy, more messy, and most messy.  Nothing wrong with a mess 😛, but cleanup is frustrating, and they will not get it right.  So then what do you do... make them do it again?  And then they won't get it right the second time... So then what do you do???

3.  If you have access to a kitchen, make a patrol meeting of it, and have them cook and eat one of the meals at home before preparing the exact same meal  in the woods.  And have them do the clean-up too!! (No automatic dishwasher. ) (Most will NEVER have cooked at home, or hand-washed dishes, so having them do it in the woods for the first time, under more austere conditions, is a set up for frustration and disappointment all around.)  If possible, once cooked in the kitchen, cook the meal under controlled conditions outdoors, making that the MAIN activity.  Think a day activity versus camping out.  

4.  Teach them that lower heat is better.  Scouts will think that they want to get it done fast, so turn up the heat!!!  (Slow is smooth; smooth is fast) Teach them the second they see oil or grease smoking, they must remove the pan from the stove!  Most will not plan ahead for this, so teach them to have mitts on hand, and a place to put a hot pan.  Then, adjust the heat on the stove, and return the pan.

5.  Start saving some empty tin cans from your kitchen to bring camping.  Put a paper towel or two in the can to absorb some grease/oil and keep it from sloshing around.  Have Scouts practice boiling some water in the frying pan, and then pouring it in the can slowly.  If they can pour hot water without spilling, they can pour grease. (Let grease cool for a bit before pouring, unless needed to make cooking safer while in progress; but don't let it solidify.  If it does, heat it up slightly to help pouring out.)  Now, you can save the metal grease can, and put it on the fire later as a demonstration of what happens when grease catches on fire (let more fights begin!!!).  When the fire burns out, retrieve the tin can and re-use.  (Do not do this with aluminum.)  For noobies, a bigger can is better, if you can get your hands on one.  (Can you get a #10??)  This could be part of their patrol gear.

6.  If you are attacked by the Leave No Trace cultists, then you can just put the cooled grease can in the garbage.  (Wanna get really down in the weeds?  Use it to make soap!!  There's a million videos on this, and it is a great science project!))

Hope these help... 

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Easy to get close when you pull $2.5m from an endowment.

Another way to read ...  The council plans to be short $2.5m this year.

Perhaps the question is ... how much do you plan the endowment to grow this year?  How much did it grow last year?  Year before?  

How big is the C10 endowment?  Inquiring minds want to know...

4 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I was told that because I want the Troop to operate like its designed and we need to call out poor behavior I should maybe look for a ROTC program or something.

Who told you this?  One person or multiple?  SM or other?  Do other parents/leaders in the Troop feel as you do?

15 minutes ago, cmd said:

Having BSA take over SOAR and make it free to units would have broken it the same way the ScoutBook lost functionality after BSA took over.  Between trying to adapt it to fit with their other software and the inherent issues of trying to scale up a small private app to serve the entire nation, it does so much less than it did back when we briefly paid for it.

Respectfully disagree... Scoutbook has more functionality now than when it was free.  I used it extensively then, and use it extensively now.

It runs even better with the Scoutbook Feature Assistant add-on (which Gary Feutz keeps up) from the Goggle Play Store.

I do agree that Scoutbook support by BSA is sorely lacking.  It is mostly volunteers (Scoutbook User Advisory Council) who assist with day to day problems.  BSA definitely lost a LOT of credibility in my book when they dumped user support, and expected the Registrars to answer peoples questions about Scoutbook (with no training at all, if you can believe it.)

BSA still runs programming changes, and they seem to move slightly faster than glacial speed.  Slightly 😜 

28 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Any recommendations regarding tracking troop finances?  Scout accounts, payments for activities, etc., troop checks written and deposits made? Donations, and fundraisers? Thanks. (Not concerned with any other aspects of the software.

Scoutbook has decent high level account tracking.  If done correctly, the balance matches what's actually in the bank account.

For fine detail, like tracking fundraiser amounts, we use Excel spreadsheets stored on the Troop Google Drive.  Once all the fine detail accounting is done there by the Fundraiser Chair, the Troop Treasurer makes entries into each Scout account in Scoutbook.

We have a calendar on our Troop website.  That calendar is public, and subscribes to the Troop calendar.

You can see events there, but you cannot open an event without a Scoutbook log in.

We encourage Packs to look at that calendar to see what events they may like to attend.  Then they contact us to make arrangements.

No, you cannot have anyone other than Scouters/Parents/Scouts with Scoutbook accounts, but you can send event notices to guests. (Although I have not used this feature to test capability.)

We do not send out changes.  We send up to three event notices, along with our planning timelines.  One at three months out,  one month prior to event, and one week prior to RSVP close.  After RSVP close, one final notice goes out on Wednesday or Thursday with final instructions.

Scoutbook calendar features allow you to send notices to only those who have RSVPed Yes, No, or Maybe.  For our culture, once you RSVP No, you never get another notice about that trip.  Once you RSVP Yes, you only get the Final Instructions notice just prior to the trip.  The Maybes get all notices, except Final Instructions.

So, just had this convo with another leader asking kinda the same.  Here was my "edited" response...

Questions:

  I wanted to reach out to you regarding comparison & recommendation between Scoutbook and Troopmaster (& any other like products). 

  P-XXX had Scoutbook.  I don't know Troopmaster.  

Initially

- What products does yours & other Troops in our area use & why?  

- Is there much of a cost difference - multi-year di$count?  

- Is one "Better" than the other?

- What's their guarantee for data protection?  

- Any other good questions I should have asked?

----------------------------

Response:

Email seems to be back up fine... at least for us.

As far as the calendaring goes, you can email the entire group with notices from a specific event.

One thing to address is culture.  Most people want you to "Push versus Pull".

This means most people wait around waiting for you to send them a message about stuff.  They are waiting for you to "Push" to them.  (Of course, when you do, a few do not respond and claim they didn't get the message.)

We teach our Scouts that real leaders "Pull."  They go out and get the information they need to make decisions.  The easy way to do this?  Log in to Scoutbook yourself and check out the events in the calendar for yourself.  Then RSVP Yes or No.  "Maybe" is not an acceptable response after the RSVP deadline. (Our rule is that, when RSVP closes, your "Maybe" becomes an automatic "No".)

Better yet, subscribe to the Scoutbook calendar in your preferred calendar app.  Then, events for the unit automatically populate in your day-to-day calendar and you can check them out.  (If you have too much calendar clutter, then just toggle if off for a while.)

We have gotten good results, but some basic human behaviors always seem to rear their heads... For example, the 20-60-20 rule (which applies to lots of things.)  

Say you have 10 Scouts, well 2 of them are going to be AWESOME.  These are the Scouts I invest my time in without reservation.  They will be Eagle Scouts.  They are going to be movers and shakers.

Of the 10, 6 Scouts will be AVERAGE performers.  They will do fine with the program, have a great time, and most will make it to Life or Eagle.  Time spent with them is well used, but must be done according to your "bandwidth," or mentorship must sometimes be delegated to another, but you must see to it that it is.

Of the 10, 2 Scouts will not do well.  They sporadically attend meetings or events; they do not take advantage of the advancement opportunities provided; they do not communicate well; they do not "get with the program."  I do not spend time pursuing these Scouts.  If they come to me, I will work with them.  But I am not going to spend time going after them to get them to participate.

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."  I have found this one useful.  But, of course, sometimes it is wrong, and I adjust.

This model applies to parents as well... amazingly enough, there is a high correlation to the behavior of their Scouts. 😜 

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

So much of the MB program is subverted by troops doing the MBs within the troop and having any warm body register as a MBC.

And by adults allowing *some* 15 years-olds with little to no experience lecture around a picnic table at Summer Camp and giving the MB away.

From the G2SS...

"In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners."

Two Scouts wanna hike a well-travelled, flat rail-to-trail section?  No problem... I'll drop 'em off and go to the ice cream shop near the end to wait for them.

Two Scouts wanna hike up Mount Washington?  Maybe not...

"Known as the most dangerous small mountain in the world, 6,288-foot Mt. Washington boasts some scary stats: The highest wind velocity ever recorded at any surface weather station (231 mph) was logged here on April 12, 1934. And almost 150 fatalities have occurred since 1849. No surprise: Most are due to hypothermia–and not only in winter. “They call them the White Mountains for a reason,” says Lieutenant Todd Bogardus, SAR team leader for New Hampshire’s Fish & Game Department. “We see snow right on through the year.” Several weather patterns collide on Washington and produce its notoriously foul weather, which can move in quickly. In 60-mph winds, hiking becomes nearly impossible: Traveling north along the Crawford Ridge from Washington’s summit, hikers routinely–and unknowingly–get blown off course by powerful westerly winds, which shove them down off the ridge into the Great Gulf or the Dry River Valley. “It’s human nature to go with the wind rather than into it,” says Bogardus. Unfortunately, hikers often find the winds have steered them many miles from trails and roads, thwarting their safe return."

https://www.backpacker.com/trips/america-s-10-most-dangerous-hikes-mt-washington-nh/

3 minutes ago, cmd said:

I guess it comes down to what "at the activity" means.  Is sitting at the trailhead at the activity? 

 

Ask five different lawyers this question, and you'll get ten different answers!!

My answer... "It depends 😜 "

16 hours ago, qwazse said:

Different scouts rank difficulty differently.

Son #2 knocked out Swimming early on and did Hiking as an elective for Eagle. The 20-mile hike was with a buddy … no adult joints were ached in the process.

Careful @qwazse!! You'll anger the G2SS gods!!

"Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings."

This one kills me... two Scouts should be able to go for a day-hike together without adult supervision.  If they have a plan, are properly outfitted, and let someone know where they will be and when they will be back, that should be enough...

P.S.  It is nice of you to do, but it is not your place to name your replacement.  That is COR business.  Of course, you can ask and help, but it is the COR's signature on the application.  Period.

I followed this exit plan when I was departing as the Scoutmaster.  I gave them one year advanced notice, and gave a reminder at every Committee Meeting.  I gave my recommendations to the CC and COR for who from the ASM Corps could be my replacement.  I talked with each of the ASM Corps about taking the job.

No one did anything until I announced in my Scoutmaster's Minute, "Scouts, it has been wonderful working with you!  This is my last meeting as your Scoutmaster!  I look forward to working with you guys as a Merit Badge Counselor, and from time to time as an Assistant Scoutmaster.  The Chartered Organization Representative and Committee Chair will announce who the new Scoutmaster is as soon as they have finished their selection.  See you on the trail!"

It was actually funny that, after all my admonitions for the year, the parents and other adults in the room had a look of genuine shock on their faces.  People hear what they want to hear, I guess...

They had a new Scoutmaster named by our next event that weekend.

And there were no hard feelings 😜 

Army guys People are lazy, and they will let you carry their water as long as you are willing to carry it.

There is really no dilemma here.

Set a deadline for your departure (recommend no more than 60 days from now.)  Stick to it! 

Announce to the COR and Cubmaster that, as of that date, you will no longer be with the Pack.  Stick to it! 

Tell everyone that you have asked, for some time, for someone to take the position, with no takers.  Give them your departure date.  Mass email, committee meetings, or whatever method of communication you use...  Stick to it!

At each and every meeting, announce your impending departure date.  Stick to it!

On your departure date, send out your email or other notice thanking everyone for the opportunity to serve, and that you will take some great memories with you.  Stick to it!

After your departure date, forward Pack business emails to the COR and Cubmaster.  Do not add anything to them... just forward.  After your departure date, if anyone calls you about Pack business, politely tell them you have left your position with the Pack and give them the COR and Cubmasters phone numbers or other contact info.  Stick to it!

It will take a few weeks, but soon all contacts will dwindle to a trickle, then to nothing.  Personally, I'd give it three weeks after departure, and then I'd ignore all Pack business emails...

Learn to say "No."  Amicably, but firmly.

Thanks for serving the Pack and Scouting for 9 years!  Enjoy your retirement!

2 minutes ago, Better4itall said:

Ummm - really low country. Like 35 feet above sea level. Some good advice, but don't let it deter you, sounds like a great trek. Good hydration and conditioning training before you leave are the best preparations. Treat it like you would a Philmont trek - it looks comparable. I'd leave the O2 and Gamow bag at home, but get ahold of the local SAR team, and definitely stair-step your way up over a couple of days.

LOL, yeah, the last two points were being facetious... note the "overkill" and "LOL, if only  " remarks...

Swimming is much easier.

Cycling next.

Hiking is awesome, but many balk at the 20-miler.  You do have to work up to it, or face some noticeable pain 😛

On 2/10/2022 at 3:08 PM, tnmule20 said:

Has anyone ever done the hike from Elk Park flag stop on the Durango and Silverton RR to the Needleton flag stop?

Here is a link.  https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/us/colorado/elk-park-to-needleton?mobileMap=false

36 mile point to point.

I know it is beautiful because I have ridden the train a few times.  I think the Scouts would get a kick out of riding the train to the drop off, doing the hike, and then meeting the train to take you back. 

We are low landers and I'm always afraid of altitude sickness.

So, for this, I'd note a few things...

1.  When you say "low landers", what do you mean?  What is the average altitude above sea level where you live?  This will matter...

2.  Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS) really becomes a factor above around 8000 feet.  The best treatment is to go down in altitude.  Much of the route you have there is above 8000', with no easy way to get down to lower altitudes, should the need arise.  Plan accordingly.

3.  Here's some light reading  ... https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/travel-to-high-altitudes#

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678789/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430716/

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/high-altitude-illness-including-mountain-sickness-beyond-the-basics#

4.  Plan your overnight locations at the lowest altitudes you can reasonably reach.

5.  One of the absolute best predictors of AMS is if you have experienced it before!!  So, plan two weekend trips where you go to high altitudes for a night.  Anyone gets severe symptoms, you may not want to take them on the long trek.

6.  If you are really low landers (live below 5000'), camp a few nights at 5000, then camp at the Every Train Stop on first night (if possible)... I think that's around 8900 feet.  This will help you identify potential problems early.  

7.  Bring ibuprofen!! Pre-load with it!! https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2012/03/ibuprofen-decreases-likelihood-of-altitude-sickness-researchers-find.html

8.  Find out who is responsible for search and rescue operations there.  Call them.  Ask about their capabilities to come and get someone.  Do they have a chopper?  Have they had to bring anyone out of there before?  What communications capabilities do they recommend you bring??  etc, etc, etc.  You will learn a lot in a 20 minute conversation with them 😜 

Looks like an awesome trip!! May I come with you??

And, for the complete overkill...

9.  If you are really worried about AMS, get Emergency Oxygen Administration training; purchase and bring a lightweight O2 canister.  It will buy you a little time to figure out what you are going to do to get someone down.

10.  If money, time, training, and your weight load are no factor,  bring a Gamow bag  LOL, if only

https://www.chinookmed.com/06001/gamow-bag-hyperbaric-chamber-civilian-model.html#!details

Because a tent is a huge expense, I recommend you think down the road a bit.

What do you intend to use the tent for 5-7 years from now?  If you think you will still me doing a lot of car camping, then the Basecamp might be good.

If you think you'll want to be more mobile (backpacking, etc.), you may want to opt for two lightweight tents.  Basecamp4 is 7.65 kg!!  (BTW, Basecamp4 is not 50% off... only 20% with your member discount... at least that is what I am seeing... so $359.20 without tax.)(but you get a dividend of about $45, )

Is your Scout the type that could sleep in a tent by themselves with no problems?  If yes, consider two of the REI Co-op Half Dome SL 2+ Tent with Footprint

These are 50% off!  (but no dividend??)

$328.98 for two of them without tax! So, fina cost will be about the same.  2.14kg each

https://www.rei.com/product/185632/rei-co-op-half-dome-sl-2-tent-with-footprint?sku=185632001

Get the green ones to be less obtrusive in the woods.

Then, your Scout could actually have another Cub sleep in the tent with them.  That'd be super-cool for them, and they won't get your gear dirty!!

Vestibules are minimal, so good for boots and a couple of items, but there is plenty of room inside for 1 + gear.

options, options, options

P.S.  The basecamp has no footprint.  the half-domes come with a footprint.

I do not recommend big cabin tents, for the reasons you see above...

We still have one we bought in the basement.  Used it about 5 or 6 times...

Our family preferred using our backpacking-type tents more.  We set up two, and often put Mom with the girls and Dad with the boys.  Even then, it wound up being as @Eagle94-A1 pointed out... I set up the tents while Mom corralled the young ones.  You do not spend a lot of time in the tent for any activities other than changing clothes (where people want some privacy) and sleeping.  The kids want to be outside playing anyway (even in the rain 😜 ).

How many people are you looking to put in tents??

Welcome @Jadalexm!

7 hours ago, Jadalexm said:

The biggest challenge has been trying to figure out how to teach what I know in a way that children can absorb.

You were a Scout from Tiger to Eagle. So, that's about what, a 12-year time span?  And I know you have learned a lot more since then...

But just looking at your Scouting years, ask yourself the question... "How long does it take to get 12 years worth of knowledge?"  Well, it takes about 12 years 😜

Be patient with yourself, as well as your Scouts!  You are going to have some meetings and activities where you will feel like you did not accomplish a great deal (if anything.)  That's OK.

One thing I found very helpful is to read a little about the psychology of the year groups you are dealing with, and find some articles on how that year group learns, interacts with others, and how they view themselves.

Here's an example: https://www.verywellfamily.com/9-year-old-developmental-milestones-620731

Particularly, in that article, see the section "How to Help Your 9-Year-Old Learn and Grow"

"Help your 9-year-old thrive by encouraging developmentally appropriate routines and activities. "Make sure your child spends at least an hour a day engaged in physical activities," says Dr. Poinsett."

I daresay (especially in this day and age) that most Bears are NOT getting an hour a day of physical activities.  So , when you get them, they are indeed restless and need to "get some wiggles" out.  Use that.  Playing a game of tag is learning! 

If you have space outside at your meeting place, get some traffic cones for a "driving course" an have them all bring their bicycles (and helmets) for a little rodeo. 

Take a walk to identify animals or plants. 

Play "Skin the Snake" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-yTC8kAr2U&ab_channel=MPHSASB

Play Leap Frog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj0JBiknaPg&ab_channel=Howcast

Etc etc etc.

I recommend you not focus too much on the Advancement portions of the program.  Sure, work in one or two things per meeting, but focus more on having fun while learning.

Yours in Scouting

9 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I don't understand why the pros can't seem recognize the immeasurable goodwill embodied in the faithful volunteers and figure out how to capitalize on it.

But that goodwill is frittered away, time and again.

It may be that many volunteers have lost their confidence in the professional administration of the program and now will not trust a new administration.  The shadow is LONG.

I know many volunteers that won't contribute a penny, but donate tons of time.  I think largely on the sentiment of,  "The council can't afford to pay me to do this work, so I'll donate my time and that will be my contribution."

Because the money kept coming in... so the volunteers were expendable.

But they are slowly killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and they cannot see it.