Navybone

Yep.

I think Bryan does a fine job explains the BSA position: “We wholeheartedly mean exactly what we said – that we support Black families and Black communities and that Black Lives Matter. This is not a political issue or an endorsement of an organization; it is a human rights issue and one we all have a duty to address. We stand with efforts to address racism and injustice and to promote equality and inclusion.” he is talking about human rights, equality, and inclusion. Why would anyone have a problem with that? is BLM perfect- no. Are riots ok - no. Is instigating or fomenting violence by left or right wing organizations ok- no. Is racial inequality on - no.

Correct, we should be very interested in a foreign (Russia, China) power is. trying to impact our country. And they are not stopping at the 2016 election, they are trying on this election, did on the 2018 election, and will continue to try to divide this country. They have done it in other counties, most notably France. The intent of my post on this was to point out that what you read is not only biased by our media, but but external influences who are trying to further divide this nation.

I can see how you might think that had I made a reference to the previous post, but I did not. my post was about Russian (and Chinese) efforts to divide the American populous as a whole. But you obviously do not agree with that as a real threat. , right. Us intel community is clueless? Your too smart to fall for it?

When you are looking at reporting on such issues as protest and BLM, I would ask that you do keep a sharp eye on what is being reported. This is a great article by NYT on Russian disinformation and an attempt to widen the gulf btwn the political parties. We have issues in this country, lets not help Russia (or Chinese) attempts to bring us down from within. Question the reporting, even if it is confirming your own bias. About three years ago, when it was BLM versus Blue lives matter in the press all the time, Twitter was able to track the post made by russian trolls and how they would insert them selves into a conversation with a centrist point of view, and then pull it wider to the polar extremes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/russia-disinformation-election-meddling.html

Sun-Times is Left Center. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=chicago+sun

Interesting - I read the actual Sun-Times article, and it attributes the quote to Ariel Atkins, 29, who is not identified as a BLM organizer Where it is attributed to a BLM organizer is, The Sun, the Washington Times, the NY Post which are all "strongly biased toward conservative causes" based on Media Bias/Fact Check. And she obviously does not understand how reality works and is a fantasy land about how reparations work.

But if BLM or PP were accused of the same crimes, it would be ok to go after them. Sorry, but The NRA puts itself out there as defending our most valued right in the the second amendment. But that is wrong, the most valued right is the first amendment, which BLM and PP both try to protect.

You do not think there is a difference in conducting a reenactment with some authenticity such as the confederate flag and someone displaying it at work or on their car/NASCAR/on a shirt?

One way to look at the current unrest by blacks in this county is to think that if a majority of this group, which makes 13% of our nation, is disenfranchised due to how they are being treated, then maybe this is worth trying to understand, looking at how to solve some of the racism they are encountering, if I can. There is also the option of thinking this is not my problem, or it’s not that bad, or even to outright dismiss them and accuse them of being trouble makers. Who are “they”to make a fuss. These people are exceptionally narrow minded and are absolutely part of the problem. It is you. You accuse me of being an apologist. No, I have decided that enough is enough and there is a valid point of discussion. I do this not because it is easy, but because part of this country’s population is hurting. It is not an comfortable position for me to take. What is more comfortable is to bury my head in the sand, deny any issues, mark it up to rabble rousers and anarchists. Easier to just rely on right wing media and follow however that portray it. My failure is believing that just because people on this site are part of scouts, that they live or espouse any of the aspects of what scouting teaches our youth.

There is debate on the actual “alliance” with anarchist. There are elements on the extreme left AND right who are using the protest as an opportunity to fan the flames and creat riots. BLM has a responsibility to try to distance themselves for sure and not get “co-mingled” with these groups. But again, BLM protest does not equal riots and violence. but to your original post that I responded to, BLM not advocating turning over the government. And to this point, BLMmis not advocating riots and violence, and destruction all over the country.

Right, but you can protest it and bring attention to it. Not all protest are riots. Most are not, most are peaceful.

Where are you seeing BLM advocating replacing our system over government? I just looked all through their site and do not see anything about a revolution or changing any of the principle documents of government. Do they think that there is a significant racism issue in this country, yes. But I do not see them pushing for a new constitution, maybe just ensuring they get the rights that the constitution affords them. You cannot legislate away racism.

I did not realize Stone Mountain was a tribute to horses. Being funded by the KKK and all. Opening the anniversary of Lincoln’s Assassination. Maybe should have just left the people off of it. Anywhere I can read more about Stone Mountain as a tribute to horses. The sites webpage says nothing about this.

I am only quoting the cession documents presented to make the case of the states who joined the Confederacy. If that is historical revisionism, what document from the time should if use. I mean, they were written by the states themselves. You don’t have to believe me, You find a copy here: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

I do not agree with the taliban on anything. Which is why I spent many years hunting and killing them. but for this, You are You saying you are ok with Stone Mountain? What it represents, what it honors?

No, slavery was the reason they left. Read each states declaration on why they left. In each, the reason is slavery. The efforts in the early 1900’s of the LOst cause or states right was nothing more than way for the south to convince itself that it was not slavery. But their founding documents betray that reality. For the 5 initial states in why they left the union (from their words) georgia: third line - they have endeavored to weaken out security, to disturb out domestic peace and tranquillity....with reference to that property mississippi: second line. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. s. Carolina: first line...but in deference to to the opinions and wishes of other slaveholding states texas: takes some time, but third paragraph: she was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery — the servitude of of the African to the white race within her limits.... virginia: last line for the first paragraph: Not only to the injury of the people, of Virginia, but to the oppression of the southern slave holding states. I am see past many things, but slavery of another human based on the color of there skin. No, I cannot see past that. Who can?

Stone Mountain is literally the largest monument on earth dedicated to honoring the men who betrayed their country to enslave an entire race due to their skin. The taliban blew up statues because Islam considers any representation of the human as offensive. Both of these instances illustrate how narrow the thinking of a culture or people can be. Are you in agreement that Stone Mountain should be preserved because is it something the US wants to celebrate or honor. That the South’s effort to break away from the United States over the desire to preserve slavery is something we want to solemnize, and that is it is something we want our children to commemorate and recognize in anything other than repudiation of racism?

There are 17 different items BLM is supporting In their mission. You have identified one and disparage the rest of the organization and their goals for that? And it does NOT call for the destruction of the family, rather it calls for recognition that extended families and villages have a significant pace in today’s society. Do we not want equality under law for all Americans, regardless of race? Do we not understand that a significant portion of our population is disenfranchised and there is room and opportunity to heal the Division that occurs. And for Duckworth, her comments are for being willing to having a dialogue. Do we not want open discussion and debate? Are we so closed minded? Cultural Marxism is a new-con wet- dream to encourage right wing conservative government, not an engaged government willing to talk to the people, and understand their concerns. what are you listening to?

No, the politicians get it, they understand. But maybe they are trying to approach this more as an enagagement to address the underlying conditions ina an effort to stop more protest, looting, etc. but again, protesting is not the same as looting and rioting. And when peaceful protestors are treated like looters or rioter like some heavy handed politicians have done, then nothing moves forward, nothing changes, and we are stuck in the death spiral of ineffectiveness. And simp,Ed protesting is seen as the same as looting or rioting.

There is a huge difference between whose who loot/riot and those who protest. And why are the riots occurring? And for the monuments, specifically the ones honoring confederate leaders or soldiers, do you not understand why they want them removed? Is it too much to ask they they want a statue of a person or representation that honors, or remembers, or celebrates the subjugation is a single person due to the color of their skin removed.

This is why we rarely use BSA campsite anyway. Would rather use a state park - other than summer camp.

I have done the same and I am astonished at what is still occurring in the Navy, a microcosm of society. As a senior in the navy, talking to other senior black officers and sailors about the racism they encounter. To hear their sides of the story of an event I was actually involved in. Totally unaware of some of the behind the scenes actions of others. I too assumed the best of people. Totally agree, is listening too much to ask? Is it too hard to try to understand what others have gone through, what they are currently still experiencing. Don’t make it political, make it personal. We cannot wish is away, with vague stereotypes or cherry-picking of statistics. It’s hard, it’s an uncomfortable conversation to have. But it’s time to get comfortable being uncomfortable. DuctTApe, you put it more eloquently than I can.

What was his departure from the other two troops like. Was it amicable?

If you are accusing me of being intolerant about people who refuse to admit that there are race issues in this nation and staying the course, doing what we have always been doing is enough - guilty as charged. I support the BSA's effort to shape the minds and develop today's youth to lead tomorrow. Tolerance, diversity, and inclusions are concepts that I wholeheartedly support. I also wholeheartedly support an organization that is willing to take an honest look at itself and admit it can do better. That is part of an organization I want to be part of. I'll leave this last note because I feel as if I am trying to push back against the wind. I find the comments of others to be very revealing, but I am not going to try to change anyone's mind. We get from our scouts what we put in, what we teach and show by example.