yknot

I agree and I think you're right I read this as you confirm all appropriate signoffs are in the record and that any other associated requirements, like registration or length of service, have been met. On page 20, GTSS states once something has been signed off on, it's been met and can't be retested. On page 22, it states scout spirit is to be assessed by how a scout lives daily life, something that would be known to the SM and not a BOR composed of committee members who may never encounter the scout except in passing. If the unit leader -- SM -- has cleared the scout for a BOR, the GT

In 4-H I think it's pretty close although from my experience, and much as it is in scouting, it is very much driven by the individual youth and how they utilize the program. There are any number of growth opportunities in 4-H, not just specific to your club or interest, but also within the organization as a whole. There are all sorts of opportunities for youth leaders and development of leadership skills all the way up to National 4-H Congress occurring next month.

Yes. I think that's what I said? -- Charters extended and registrations collected. There will probably be a grace period but that should mostly sort out by March of next year.

The fees/registrations are being collected but if the charters fail, they have no home unless a new charter can be found. There are plenty of units collecting registrations without knowing who their charter will be after the December extension runs out, or are just now learning there is an issue.

That would normally be the case but what muddles this is the fate of the paused UMC units. Those extensions started in 2021 and now are extending fully through 2022. The real membership numbers won't be known until some time after December 31, 2022 when we are able to compare last quarter 2021 to first quarter 2023. What's also not clear is how "transferred" scouts are being captured in this. I don't think there's much solidity to be found in any numbers until this spring.

Those groupings match the progression I've seen. It's good to keep in mind not every kid likes or is good at working with younger kids. In fact a lot of them don't and frankly, that describes a lot of adults in scouting and even roles like teaching. I don't think you should necessarily see that as a negative, especially since she's good at other things. An older scout who has awareness of and relationships outside and beyond your troop is a huge asset. She may not be fulfilling some of the aspects of the SPL role but she is still showing leadership if she is interested in participating i

I don't know what the point is of how far up or down on the list these rifles fall. They have all been used in mass shootings. They have a connotation because of that to the general public that they are the preferred weapons of choice of mass shooters. They are not what the general public envisions in a scout's hand at a scout shooting range and most do not understand distinctions of use they just see the acronyms. To clarify, at many youth competitions and practices, you do not see guns like AK47s or AR15s or whatever other acronym I am not including. I am not selecting a list, I am dis

4-H teaches, according to them, about 500,000 youth per year. My local experience with it is that it is generally run out of local recreation and gun clubs that run programs all year long and have competitive shooting teams. From what I've seen, it is on a higher level and more closely managed than what I've seen at scout camps. It's a 4-H club with volunteer leaders, but it is generally overseen or run in consultation with professionals.

You're missing my point. You're arguing with me about what an Ak47 is or isn't. I'm talking about transparency -- there is no reason not to include what type of rifle was involved. I also noted what the connotations for the AK47 are in the press, which really aren't debatable. It doesn't matter what you or I think or if it's number one used or number ten, it is still one of the preferred firearms that have been involved in high profile cases. I'm noting that its presence at a scouting event will likely be news to the general public, and even more so if it becomes clear that it wasn't an aberra

OK. I see it more as an issue of transparency. I think the public, and any parents considering a scout shooting program for their child, have a right to know what type of rifle was involved in this and in any other incident. Information by itself is never bad and I don't see where the mere citing of that detail alone t in these media reports is by itself sensationalistic. It would have been sensationalizing the incident if they had included a paragraph on how the AK47 has become one of the preferred weapons of choice in mass shootings.

What are you saying is fear mongering? The actual news reports that mention the weapon involved was an AK47 or noting this will be news to many parents and members of the general public? Interesting opinion piece. I'm not anti firearms for youth but I no longer think BSA has the organizational competence, consistently delivered across the board, to oversee a youth shooting sports program -- along with a few other things.

Most of the general public, even those neutral or casually supportive of youth shooting sports and probably a lot of scout parents, are unaware that an AK47 could be at a scout range. This particular tragedy is about adult negligence and the apparent failure of training programs but on the macro level it may lead people to wonder what an AK47 is doing anywhere near a scout. The public facing side of scout shooting sports has been gun safety, marksmanship, and hunting as a component of outdoor sportsmanship. An AK47 does not fit into that picture.

A number of units have chartered with American Legions this year and have reported a similar process: The AL pays to get them started for one year but that's it. If money is a hardship for your families they do not need class As. Many cash strapped packs will just use a class B t shirt or a neckerchief, etc. You can always switch to class As later if your fundraising kicks in. A uniform is not required and should not be a barrier to scouting for any child. It's not too late for wreaths if you have a local supplier. If you can find a local garden center or nursery to work with you,

I think that's a good plan and then you can monitor the social stuff. I don't know if your kid is in a public school system or not but they get heavy character education that if you're not an upstander you are a bystander and that's bad. He may not yet be comfortable in calling out bad behavior, particularly among older kids, but he also may not want to risk being thought of as being a party to it as a bystander. The 12 year old solution is to lose enthusiasm for scouts and drop out. "Good" kids who are not confrontational or good at self advocating really don't know what to do when confronted

Social issues and bullying can sometimes be the reason for this. In some troops that have a really hands off attitude this kind of thing can fester along unnoticed and uncorrected. In those cases, it's easier for a kid to drop out than try to stick around because kids, especially younger kids, don't like to complain or talk about other kids.

I don't know about your council but the councils around here, aside from a random bump, have been in a membership decline reflective of national trends for maybe 10 years or so. It's been possible to hide the gradual declines, or make them less obvious, by playing with percentages, numbers and dates and they've done so as did National last year. We'll see what happens in 2023 because by then everything should shake out.

If the 4% holds in January and then March depending what happens with the paused UMC recharters, I would say any positive growth is good. What I'm more concerned about, though, is that the 33,000 includes a lot of dead or soon to be dead registrations from the prior cycle. That's always been the problem with membership numbers released between now and Dec. 31 and really until March of the coming year. Some councils might be tidier than others though. I have no idea what Circle 10's history of accuracy is. In my home councils, it's pretty much fiction until March.

Councils can interpret that form differently and may have different viewpoints on what is safe. I was CC for a large pack and on the committee for a large troop. One of my interests over the years was to identify and develop potential local camping sites and obtain COIs and fire permits for their usage as we wanted more options. Our municipality had already worked with us to develop a site that had a fire ring, non potable water source, and access to porta johns. I was able to secure two other municipal campsites and installing a campfire ring in one became an Eagle project. I was able to deve

I think the rocky transition is the norm from what I've seen. It's a tough transition and when it doesn't go well you will hear that the adult leaders aren't trained properly or the scouts weren't prepared well as cubs or some other reason. I personally think it's a defect in the program because it only seems to work well when there is a perfect alchemy. A program shouldn't be that hard to deliver when so many mean so well and work so hard. I don't think the attitude that chaos is the norm, which said different ways is alternatively trial by fire, or school of hard knocks, or sink or swim, or

I agree about Webelos burnout. I also think it is linked to the fact that life starts to get more 'real' for many kids at the 4th and 5th grade level nowadays and they start to focus their interests more because of time pressures. Years ago, kids would start worrying about what college they would get into in high school. Now, they are tracked starting in middle school. Elementary kids today are very aware of not wanting to be in say the basic math class when they get to 5th or 6th grade and so robotics club might suddenly be more interesting than cubs. At the same time, they are also at an age

Scouting ought to be a sampling menu at kindergarten and maybe even first grade levels. It ought to be a spring or summer program where you attend a couple of den or pack activities and culminates in being able to attend a pack or district event like a special overnight camp out or fishing derby or something fun. Most other youth activities at that age are very basic, very low key, and cost practically nothing. They run for a short session and generally culminate in some big hoorah. BSA says it relied on research when formulating the Lions program but that is always suspect. It doesn't seem to

The AP report earlier this year is in sync with numbers reported in one of the bankruptcy submissions that showed actual March '22 membership numbers to be around 650,000. I think what this Webinar chart may show is some effective recruitment up from that low number; however the 900,000 number looks likely to fall again once the UMC paused recharters are reconciled by Feb/March. I know there has been very aggressive cub recruitment nationwide and certain councils are reporting significant registrations. However, there's a lot of ground to make up from a low of 762,000 or more likely 650,

Agreed. The only membership numbers that are near accurate are the ones posted in Feb/March. A month or so ago, BSA extended the paused UMC recharters to the end of this year, so the numbers in the Webinar chart include a percentage of memberships that may no longer exist or are questionable.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2022/01/26/fall-recruiting-was-a-smashing-success-now-its-on-to-spring/ In January as per the above Bryan on Scouting, BSA reported over one millions scouts so at 900,000 that chart from the webinar is actually showing a membership loss. Like the January figure, this would include a percentage of holdover scouts. There is a chart showing a progression that was included with the April (?) bankruptcy plan. I saw it once but have not been able to find it again. Perhaps someone on here would know how to find it on Omni. I seem to

I read it very carefully. Fred's a sweet guy, but that discussion was tunneling. Glad it stopped.