yknot

You are absolutely correct. We need objective, independent data in order to figure out effective ways forward and we are not getting it. There's enough publicly available research out there conducted by other youth organizations on millennial and other trends to know we are completely and frustratingly missing the mark. BSA doesn't seem to be paying attention to any of it.

The worst part to me is that this is what National has come up with at a time when the organization really needs some strategic, innovative re-structuring based on independent outside market research. Tinkering with territories, increasing fees, and expecting that membership and recruitment quotas will assure scouting's future is just more of the same thinking that has gotten us where we are. BSA is staring its own demise in the face. If it doesn't understand how much it needs to change its way of doing business now, it likely never will. How can you meet quotas without BSA giving councils, di

The explanation I got was that it is simply a placeholder claim. It's like saying to the court that if x, y, and z happen and I am potentially liable due to the loss of your (BSA) promised protection, I may have claims of unknown amounts depending on what happens. Lawyers can correct me if wrong.

Frankly, I think the ACA ought to be looking at scout camps as a model for how camps can run with a minimum amount of risk. I was very skeptical and concerned in the spring and through the summer, but unless I've missed something there were no major outbreaks at scout camps where scouts tented solo. Granted, the season was very limited due to truncated camp sessions and it seemed like at least a 50% closure rate, but I would really like to see a post mortem. The camps that had problems -- and there were some major ones -- were mostly non scout that housed multiple campers in fixed structures l

What this will do is encourage districts and councils to overlook dysfunctional COs and units in favor of chasing quotas. Same old story, different day. Additionally, most of the difficulties with recruiting more diverse units and scouts are social and economic and councils, districts, and units are ill equipped to overcome those without a lot of support.

I am slumped next to you staring into the campfire...

LOL. No, they used Lassie too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4Fj-mf9M-E

Cool. My father raised homing pigeons. They were part of the Signal Corps up until WWII and even after. They were actually very effective. One, Cher Ami, was a decorated war veteran of WWI. Use of homing pigeons would have seemed as commonplace to boys as cavalry was in the beginning of the 20th century. Miniaturized drones are a modern day variation of that program. We allow cell phones but they are supposed to be used only for emergencies or program, like taking pictures of tracks. They've kind of become a version of the Swiss army knife.

It's good to acknowledge this can be tough on the scouts, especially the SPL. We had a nonfunctional SM for three years who used to brag the troop was boy led, but it was because he did nothing. He had some kind of a passive aggressive personality disorder that made him impossible for adults to work with, let alone kids. For two of his years we had good SPLs who did their best to run the troop. It was hard for them though to up manage an adult they were supposed to respect and hard because they were high school kids in AP courses, in the middle of college searches, involved in other activities

It is not just judgement it is understanding risk exposure. If BSA outlines a policy and you deviate from it, you increase your risk of being held personally liable if something happens. That's why all those annoying rules are there -- BSA is trying to avoid risk. All of us at one time or another have likely bent a rule that didn't seem to make any sense. Just make sure you understand that you are not simply being a rebel and following the "old" ways but that you are possibly exposing yourself to enhanced liability.

Of course not. But it's better than nothing. Gotta start looking at how to do better at something rather than doing better at nothing.

Seems like this could be solved by having the SM and ASMs invite DLs on an annual adult one night camp out for Intro to Troop fun. You don't need WB for that or First Class either. Rather than a whole weekend of training, a late Sat afternoon, dinner, and early Sunday a.m. scoot in time for church would work for a lot of schedules especially if local.

Um, anyone who registers a scout in our unit has to also sign up for a volunteer role? We will not accept their registration unless they sign up for something. It also encourages prompt delivery of paperwork because the easiest jobs go first.

No, they are not right. Facebook is not where you need to be. It's a bully pulpit for bullies. Where exactly are you? Everyone is depressed and not functioning optimally during Covid. You need to take a breath and get some perspective. I know you are in Texas. Who on this forum is in Texas? Please reach out to this guy.

Stop it. Stop it right now. I've read your posts before and had no idea you had such confidence issues. You don't come off that way in print. Get out of that Troop and find better people to hang with. You have a tremendous amount to offer. You also need to learn how to leave this negativity behind for the sake of your own kid. You are his/her leader. Find someplace where you can grow in comfort and be a good example for them.

Maybe we're confusing things here. Units team up, all or in part, for multiple types of things from HA blended crews to provisional camping to getting together to run a first aid merit badge session or for a cook off or service project. Staging a shadow council camp might be a different issue.

I don't think that's a good idea. Pre Covid we sometimes did things with other units but not now. Stay in your pod.

Yes. Our Troop insists on meeting weekly even though the meetings are deadly dull and scouts don't want to go to them. Plus they are sitting there being bored while facing hours of homework when they get home, especially the older high school scouts who are generally in AP courses, etc. If Covid has taught us something it's that you don't need to meet much to get activities organized. The activity should indeed be the focus.

I'm not arguing your legal acuity, which is obviously expert and well informed, or the logic of most of what you say. But I think this is also one of those situations where the morality gets lost and for an organization that is basically built around a moral code, this is not going to be a good look when the dust settles. I also think to some degree things are already in panic mode, at least among those organizations sophisticated enough to be monitoring the proceedings.

I totally get the legal problem but what I'm talking about is the moral issue. We're supposed to be an organization that espouses morals. If BSA still has some pieces left at the end of this but community organizations around the country that chartered units are destroyed, what reputation do we have left? What will we be? The abuse scandals have been awful, but scouting also started to die when it began listening to lawyers and corporate types more interested in marketing instead of following it's own scout law. In my opinion.

Does BSA have any moral duty to inform their COs? I feel like this is setting up to be another ineligible volunteers type situation. The BSA had information it didn't share and people got hurt. I know in a legal and financial sense there is a conflict of interest in doing so, but if scouts is going to scout like, it seems like the moral imperative should be to globally advise COs to protect themselves. The silence from BSA regarding any communication to COs throughout this has been deafening. It looks like the impact on BSA is potentially going to be catastrophic. What is the point in creating

American Legion Halls, Elks, Rotary, Lions, Masons, Fire Departments, businesses, community and rec centers, athletic clubs, private schools... Some of these groups have national leadership that can mobilize for their individual churches, chapters, etc., such as the major church groups are doing. Some are not as organized, like random Volunteer Fire Departments, businesses and private schools. What happens to these smaller individual organizations who probably have no idea what's going on and don't know to file a claim?

I agree. There is so much ill will that could be created here among so many community groups that I don't see how scouting in any form could withstand it. Scouts is in another impossible situation but the fact that COs have had, as far as I know, practically no direct communication from National on this as it developed has probably been alarming to the ones who have been paying attention. What will happen to the ones who aren't paying attention and don't file a claim and wind up suffering losses? The Methodist church makes out OK but the AME church or VFW down the street does not? Whose moral

Youth all over are having a hard time with this and are coping with it differently. Be aware some kids are not so much afraid of getting it themselves but may be living with high risk adults and are very fearful of bringing anything home to them. They may not want to verbalize that they are freaked out over losing mom or dad, especially if they are teens. The cold might be more of a convenient excuse in that case. Many kids are also totally done with zoom. Maybe encourage them to think less 'meet' and more is there anything safe and fun they can do as an outdoor activity at least

At this point, from an objective viewpoint, it seems like every CO group ought to be doing the same thing out of sense of self preservation -- American Legions, Volunteer Fire Departments, VFWs, private schools. I don't know if others were anticipating this but it seems like a mess on top of a mess to me.