yknot

They have had many of the same problems as we have. My nephews were in BSA in the US and then moved to Canada where they dropped out within a year or two. One of the issues seemed to be that there was not the same enthusiasm for scouting in Canada as they had experienced in the U.S. and it put them out of step with peers. They were in Quebec province where the Francophone movement has tried to diminish British and English influence to the point where there are periodic discussions about seceding from Canada.

I agree that it was certainly the plan all along. If surveys are being designed to produce a specific result, then that decision has already been made.

You are sort of making my point for me. BSA's actions weren't ever meant to uplift girls, they were simply a survival move geared to saving the organization. That's the rub for GSUSA. I think that was also the disenchantment note for scouters who initially opposed girls in scouting. It was a money grab, plain and simple, not really an altruistic social enlightenment. Although since many units have embraced it, that's what it has become, which is good.

In my opinion the source of GSUSA's anger, or sour grapes, is embedded in how the whole issue unfolded. I don't know if anyone remembers the lead up and roll out of this but at the time we were all being invited to attend "conversations" with Mike Surbaugh and others about the possibility of adding girls to scouts. We were told research was being done, that any changes would be given full discussion, everything was years down the line, etc. Surveys were going out that they wanted you to respond to, which many of us did. Unfortunately, they were all guided -- a strategy that BSA has utili

Having been in publications management and having had many of my publications and competitor publications close, I can say it is mostly likely not self supporting through subscriptions and advertisements. Most of the product review articles are likely paid placements -- meaning the product manufacturer probably pays something for having the product reviewed and included in the article. Or, conversely, they review the product and then solicit an ad and if none is forthcoming likely drop the product out. The magazine is probably considered a marketing and recruitment vehicle and is probably subs

Not answering this just saying happy Christmas Eve and Merry Christmas to all my forum friends.

I know, I've seen that but we've done it for decades at a few key community service events -- parking, carting Xmas trees to cars or escorting people to their cars after blood drives etc. Our district and council people don't have a problem with it, they have been at these events and commended our scouts on helping the community. It's just a jar somewhere -- it's not like a scout at a popcorn table actively asking someone to donate or get some free popcorn with their donation.

The trend in my area is to move to basically a self funding option supported by fundraisers that do not involve product sales. Most activities are pay as you go although the fundraising we do allows us to often defray costs for certain activities. Our fundraising is mostly connected to service where scouts are out in uniform doing something in the community and we set out a tip jar. A few random things: Council sites need a freecycle feature where units can donate used flags, stands, camping equipment, etc., to defray start up costs for new units. Councils should also even offer se

This is the ideal but in our units the scouts are in charge of running each activity so things get a little messier sometimes. They have an adult mentor who is supposed to help them but depending on the adult they are sometimes no more organized than the kids. There is a punch list for activity planning and a templated calendar of what needs to happen and when, but oftentimes these things happen last minute. Unless we morphed to a more adult run system, we would not be able to budge this way because too many things change. We also seem to have a lot of families with very irregular schedules be

I am sensitive to people's feelings -- I have friends who don't want their children to even know American slavery existed because they are concerned it will warp their budding self esteem and I can see that -- but on the other hand I believe in history in all it's warts and beauty. I believe it's contextual. I believe it's living -- so that a name that meant one thing for one group centuries ago now means something else for other groups today and that needs to be acknowledged too and not just wiped out. We have a lot of veterans who went through military bases with names that have been found t

I think that's kind of sad because unless the names were established in some kind of annoying way -- the made up name would seem to fall into that category to me -- it's just losing history. In the Northeast, almost every other place name has an indigenous origin. I don't think it's offensive to keep those names in order to remember who was here first. I do think some of the NA hookum hokkum aspects of scouting need to go, no matter how many NA locals sign off on it. I'm not Canadian but I've spent a lot of time there and I like how they frame this issue as First Nations because it seems accur

I read somewhere that some YPT style adult training on this is coming for leaders. Seems to me though that should have come first.

Which is why my watch formally expires in 9 days.

I don't know that this badge will be the death of scouting but it has been so poorly implemented that it certainly hasn't helped. We lost several families over it. The ones who had issues with gender or orientation issues have been long gone, but this time it was families with connections to LEOs. It was really ill advised of BSA to throw this out there when they did. Instead of taking the time to do something more thoughtful and measured, it came across as a knee jerk reaction at a time when people were reacting very badly to reactionary things. While it can't hurt for scouts have discussions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh8BdQkHI-k You can rent it on youtube

I just watched some of this on the Methodist scouting page. Was anyone else struck by the guy's comments about youth protection that it's not just two deep that's needed but more like five deep? In a way, he's right if you want to be covered for all situations. That's pretty how we try to staff summer camp. But if that is becoming part of UMCs child protection policy then I guess it would have to also be adopted by the units. One of my churches is not a CO but we allow scouts to meet there with the understanding they follow the UMC YPT policy although it's currently largely the same as BSA's.

You are always positive ParkMan. Thanks for kind words. If I thought I could make a difference at the local level I would stay. I'll still be kicking around here though. I can't help myself.

Nutritious food is important at camp outs, not tail gate quality meals that take forever to make and clean up after and leave residues that attract wildlife. I'm tired of kids bringing bear "crack" -- meals like salmon in foil -- along on camp outs.

Yes. I agree. It wouldn't be so bad if it were more practical in the out of doors and cut down on the wording that seems to lead kids to want to make full meals for breakfast and lunch. And for so many kids to have to make meals. It gets difficult to fit them all in.

I know it's mystifying. It's almost as if they've gotten kickbacks from Dutch oven manufacturers. All it does is make camp outs more sedentary and creates all sorts of food handling and wildlife safety issues with kids trying to transport ambitious food items to camp sites or on trips. .

I would respond that I leave scouting as a volunteer as of 12/31/20 because I don't have a way to answer those questions. An organization that has so many good people in it can't be evil but I have lost faith in its ability to manage itself and prevent more crises in the future.

I wish they would get rid of Cooking. It has turned so many camp outs into tailgating in the woods.

I think it's OK for scouters to feel that way but I think we ignore the broader public perception at peril. People who are older tend to have better views of scouting and some connection to it. Younger people do not. BSA, or whatever survives bankruptcy, has a huge PR question ahead of it that can't be ignored.

I think if BSA had been more true to its core statements, it would have avoided becoming such a lightning rod. Be a good citizen, be of good moral character, on my honor, do my duty -- those tenets should have resulted in a more inclusive organization from the beginning. I don't know why BSA became so closely aligned with religious connections to the point where it lost its independence and ability to follow its own moral code, but it has certainly caused a lot of strife.

I think over the decades scouting became such a stalking horse for so many social issues, whether religious or otherwise. Instead, it should have just stood on its own and focused on being relevant to children. A lot of these headaches never would have existed if so. We could have easily staked out the outdoors/conservation ground and never did. It's not necessarily too late to still do so.