yknot

I'm not sure where you are or what you do but I have never had anyone from our district or council do anything to ever help resolve any kind of contentious, abusive, or illegal issue. Abusive parents incensed that advancements were perhaps not moving quickly enough to jet their scout to Eagle? Upheld by Council. Incompetent or abusive council employees or volunteers? Upheld by council. Problems with possible embezzlement and CO involvement? No response or involvement from Council. It is as if they do not exist except for FOS time and for the very overworked and underpaid admin assistant who ch

"How" is indeed the issue. Do we want to remake the country or try to add in new colors between the lines. I'm all in favor of a radical re-envisioning of the system until it gets to the point where we are tearing down what created this amazing experiment in the first place. Because if we go, there is nothing much else left that holds the line.

I don't think it's just pod size, I think it is recognizing this is a highly contagious, airborne virus that is affected by atmospheric conditions. It's better to have 25 kids at an activity wearing masks and standing 12 feet apart in crosswinds and sunlight conditions than it is having 4 kids 6 feet apart without masks downwind of each other. We need to start thinking that way.

National can enforce. It can revoke charters. National is management. If management finds it has no way to compel councils to follow its rules, it can legislate new ones. National has relied on a hands off philosophy when convenient when confronted with something it doesn't want to or doesn't know how to deal with. It has confused volunteers by not being honest or transparent about why it is making program changes. There has been almost no communication from the Key 3 to the corps of the organization throughout this latest crisis. That is not good leadership. Perhaps the leaders would b

I've been concerned because the documented youth transmission cases that have occurred in our area have mostly been during outdoor sport practices, not in class and in school. In practice, even if they are doing socially distanced drills and eschewing locker rooms, they are not wearing masks. This virus does not like heat, humidity or sunlight, so as winter temps cool and become dryer. wear your masks and forget about 6 feet social distance stay 12 feet away even in open air.

I'm sorry to hear that you experienced this first hand and hope you are fully recovered soon. I know. Many people do not take this seriously. Be well.

A lot of our discussion on this thread and elsewhere on this forum is on what we all think should or should not happen with scouting. A common comment is that today's kids "need" scouting. However much many people here may believe that, I'm not sure that that is a clarion call to youth. I think we need to find out what kids and their families want or need from an organization like scouting. I wish we had some real, non BSA (meaning objective) data on why kids join, don't join, or leave. I know we all try to get information and feedback out of scouts whether in BORs or in trying to recruit aro

Those are exactly the kinds of questions BSA needs to be asking and researching. I would say 4H has survived because it hasn't been afraid to change and because it has remained relevant to an evolving youth market. It's much more elastic. You can say the same of youth sports and other youth organizations. BSA is pretty moribund.

I think this is an area worthy of discussion regarding how it may impact scouting going forward. Extended adolescence is an issue. Youth do seem less able to handle certain responsibility markers that prior generations were more adept with. However, youth today have greater and different pressures than older generations did. Just watching a 14 year old trying to navigate the virtual learning environment has been mind boggling for me. Can I depend on him to load the shotgun, hike 10 miles in snow, and bring back dinner? No. He'd be crying. Can I depend on him to figure out how to jury rig a hot

Fascinating. One adult Eagle's story from 1959, much later than 1948: ... "Gallagher started as a Tenderfoot at the age of 38." Perhaps this was regional? If this would encourage greater adult volunteer involvement,, support, and commitment, maybe it's not as crazy as it looks. It could have a special designation, such as Silver Eagle Scout. Again, I am just thinking in terms of what would help scouting survive, not what it means in a program sense. And here's where the contradiction comes into play for me: I don't agree at all with the way that the Eagle marquee has become monet

I guess I'm not looking at this in a program/citizenship sense but in a marketing/future survivability sense. I also know I sometimes contradict myself when I do this. I continually point to other youth organizations that seem to be doing a better job of surviving than BSA is despite having the common struggle of having to engage with fewer and busier kids and families. One of the things that many of these organizations do is find ways to keep youth involved as long as possible and beyond into adulthood. The closest BSA seems to have is FOS and that is a straight out money ask. I think s

Just to try and circle this interesting discussion about scout membership age limits back to a historical context, I did find out that up until 1948 adults were able to earn Eagle Scout and up until 1972 Explorers could earn Eagle until they were 21. It is also interesting that in a handful of states the age of majority is not 18 but older. I wonder if anyone has any historical information on this. I can see the problems that YPT today has created with having older youth interacting with younger youth even if that took place within some kind of new structure. However, if scouting wants

Curious -- what is the reason for that? Church youth groups around here frequently allow kids up to 20.

Membership age should be extended to calendar year 21. Some youth organizations use 21 as the cut off, especially if it's something extracurricular, so that they can continue through college. There is no sensible reason I can see for scouts to cut off at 18. At the very least, scouts ought to extend it to calendar year 18 to make it easier for high school seniors to stay engaged in a peer activity through the end of their senior year because a lot of them turn 18 before their year is out. Would seem to be a simple and common sense way to increase membership.

The vast majority of people who have filed claims are in their 40s to 50s and some younger. That means many if not most perpetrators are likely still alive today. It's not clear to me either how they will be held accountable as part of this bankruptcy process but I hope that's part of it.

BSA is in this situation because of BSA. I agree BSA is not in a position to take the offensive but it could at least defend itself-- meaning the units and those still laboring in them. We have had months of silent and absent leadership at the top that has not even responded to the most egregious of claims. What's been leaked from the Churchill Project clearly shows there is no hope of an innovative restructuring, it's just business as usual. There's been no communication down to the unit level as we've proceeded through this mess. This is not normal for a viable organization. Even the most C

You are like in the 1980s. I don't even know where to begin with you lol.

I don't know what to say to anyone else. I came here to this forum a few years ago because I was worried, but this isn't the venue to fix anything, only to share in the best of times and to vent in the worst. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any venue for folks at the unit level to try and fix anything. Many will tell you to just focus on delivering a great program at the unit level, and that's what I tried to help do. But then I kept having this feeling that at least a part of the apple we were trying to deliver was rotten. I can't square myself with trying to deliver a partly rotten a

I know. I'd like a better sense myself of what exactly happened but I think the numbers -- and the stories that each new report recounts -- are telling the tale to a large degree. It's tragic. BSA is story of both dark and bright angels it seems.

I understand where you are coming from but you have to turn around and look at what you are saying. Replace "slavery" or "segregation" with "pedophilia" and I think you'll see what I mean. There is no way to examine this retroactively with any view to trying to put what happened in any kind of context no matter how valid. Trying to engage in any kind of moral relativism can only backfire. Scouting is up against a wall. While the leadership has missed a lot of opportunities to communicate where I think they could have tried to defend themselves or clarify, there are too many things they simply

His son Beau Biden prosecuted one of the most egregious cases of pedophilia in Delaware and there is a foundation in his son's name -- The Beau Biden Foundation -- dedicated to the protection of children. Who knows how Biden's own scout experiences will square against honoring the legacy of his dead son and what was apparently his life's interest.

An article posted above states that about 85% of the claimants are between the ages of 45 to 52, so if true that would put the bulk of the claims in a time period ranging from about1974 at the low end to 1993. Whether the accuser is 8, 93, or somewhere in between, I assume some standard of credibility has to be met. More recent cases where corroborating witnesses or accused perpetrators may still be alive will be easier to assess, but even older cases could have some kind of substantiation that would validate them. If a cluster of previously unreported cases develops around a specific unit, ca

Parents often are the abusers but the more eyes around the better. In today's environment, if a Scoutmaster said he preferred that non ASM parents didn't attend a camp out, most parents wouldn't view that well. A good YPT program has always been essential for BSA because of what it does with kids. My point is that to pat ourselves on the back for it overmuch is like praising a lifeguard for having lifeguard training. And one small point when comparing BSA with sports or other school activities: kids involved in such activities today are rarely out of the view of a security camera. Cameras are

That is all true but you also have to look at why YPT is so necessary. I have read many comments on this board about scouters who discourage parents from attending camp outs because they feel that they get in the way of the patrol method, etc. There is no other youth organization that repeatedly has adult leaders take relatively small groups of kids to remote places for hikes or overnight camping activities. There is some of that in sports as kids get older, but it's not common. Most youth in travel sports travel and stay with their families, not coaches. Most youth sports activities are con

You are absolutely correct. We need objective, independent data in order to figure out effective ways forward and we are not getting it. There's enough publicly available research out there conducted by other youth organizations on millennial and other trends to know we are completely and frustratingly missing the mark. BSA doesn't seem to be paying attention to any of it.