yknot

I think one place to look for information is the youth sports world. Youth volunteer coaches and officials are frequently urged to get liability umbrella coverage. I don't see the roles as being much different. Also, I have always wondered about D&O insurance for those who serve on the committee. It's not just who is at the camp out who is liable. The committee can be named in lawsuits as well.

Maybe you switch to a location where you can get weather radar. I think you'd earlier compared lightning deaths to things like biking, dog bites, etc. One difference with lightning is the possibility of mass casualties. Death or injury by dog or bike generally involves one person; a lightning strike under the wrong conditions can kill or injure multiple people. BSA is not alone in having guidelines. They are pretty standard throughout most outdoors related organizations and activities. It is a good point about not trying to run somewhere once the storm is near. By then it's too late. Kids are killed trying to run to safety. One thing I would suggest per CDC is to not leave kids sleeping on the ground in tents. Get them to sit up to minimize their point of contact. Put on any footwear with rubber soles and crouch low on something minimally conductive. I think this post is great. I rarely hear of units running tabletop drills on topics like these. I have come close enough to getting struck by lightning to take it very seriously. When your hair starts floating up in the air you know it's not good.

This is why you can't pay attention to weather apps beyond general information. You need to understand that weather can literally happen over your head. You need to have a healthy respect for it.

Well first I would say monitor reports before you go and modify plans if necessary. If the atmosphere is that unsettled, might not be a good weekend to camp. Or, adjustments might need to be made as far as location. Move to a less interesting location closer to hard shelter. Second, make sure you have all the necessary weather apps and a weather radio however, don't rely on weather apps which are often wrong. Keep your eyes up and monitor weather yourself. Third, don't set up in a stand of mature trees. Pick a clearing that is not elevated or in a low or runoff spot prone to water. If no clearings, then follow same -- avoid elevation and low spots; pick a location somewhat sheltered from expected wind/storm direction; don't set up under any grandfather trees. Go plans are also dependent on region and geography. Tornadic activity is rare where I am in the northeast but common in the southeast where part of my family is from. In the northeast, I'm more likely to chance outdoor activity; less so in the southeast. If you have not planned this out ahead of time and are caught out, head for the closest hard structure. If you are in the northeast and wind is not an issue, heading for cars you've kept close by might be acceptable. No debate allowed about go time. That procedure should be established before hand. My attitude towards adverse weather is different than some. In the past, I have had to cope with it on a professional level and I don't take chances. I've noted a different attitude among those who interact with it recreationally and are looking forward to a weekend out with kids that they don't want to cancel and are more willing to take risks. Thanks for this. I think these tabletop exercises are really useful.

I can see some public angst developing but I think it's more likely to come from the environmental sector because some of these camps are large, pristine tracts.

Yes I think that would be a little tone deaf for the victims on the TCC and could backfire for the BSA.

I think that's what most people are suggesting and it makes sense. I think volunteer issues and parental bandwidth are really going to drive the issue. In youth sports, you can drive your daughter to one game or practice and your son to another and you don't have to be in the same place.

I apparently didn't handle it well. My kids suffered because I did not have as much time for them as I devoted to other kids. I was determined not to give them preferential treatment because they were mine and in retrospect was actually harder on them than I was on other kids. They also could never have a day off because if I had to be there, they had to be there although I did miss some critical moments in their lives outside of scouting because I had to be at the scout event while they were elsewhere. This created some resentment towards scouting on my part. Further, if I was trying to be neutral about an obnoxious kid I expected them to be as well and that was very difficult for them. In my defense I did not put any expectations on them as far as advancement If I'm being totally honest, in retrospect, I would have leveraged my position more to suit the interests of my kids. My quest to be scout like, above board, and altruistic backfired with my own kids.

Sounds like that is not going to be enough if the plan was rejected though?

This is a problem from cubs on up. Parts of the program are not developmentally appropriate. It can also be boring and repetitive. One of my fears is that if anything of BSA survives bankruptcy it will still trot along without really addressing some of the root reasons why kids today find it less appealing. For starters, it needs to be less homework like and more outdoors focused.

I had a UC who while he wasn't actually sexually harassing anyone had some pretty offensive views about the role of women which he shared freely. He's still there. Largely because he's the only person willing to volunteer to be a UC in the District.

To this laundry list of culpability I would add all the behind the scenes dirty laundry that has been aired here by scouters actively involved in the program but not widely known by outside critics: less than 100% YPT training rates; scouters who view YPT as a nuisance and flaunt it;; scouters who dislike parental involvement and sometimes even actively discourage it; lack of any real oversight by BSA and lack of attention to the dysfunctional CO structure; lack of clarity about YP policies; the volunteer manpower crisis that sometimes leads units to keep questionable people in scouting roles; nonexistent background checks -- the list could go on.

Somewhere along the line I read a prediction that BSA membership would be around 800K after the end of 2020. I don't think the Dec. 2020 membership numbers are the final picture.

Yes, I think the integrated unit ship has sailed. Units should be free to do what works for them much the same BSA allows them to deal with religious issues. Do you want an integrated unit? Fine. Do you want linked units? Fine. Do you want separate girl and boy patrols? Fine. Do you want integrated patrols? Fine. Also, that guy who was on that zoom meeting needs to be retired, as do probably most of the upper echelon leadership. They've been in an echo chamber and it's hurting scouting. When BSA first opted to include girls, I briefly mourned the loss of some boy space for my sons. But the reality is they still have plenty of boy spaces. And most of their world is integrated and that is the world they will need to learn how to thrive in, so for scouting to mirror that is a positive, not a negative in my book.

This will be a sad list, but interesting. For example, this is the first time I have heard of camp property being transferred to the Trust. In retrospect, I'm sure that must be established aspect of the bankruptcy process for real property, but it does make me wonder if it's a potential opportunity. My hypothesis is that if dozens and maybe even hundreds of large camp come up for sale at roughly the same time it will depress prices. It might set up a situation where some entity like the National Park Service could make a combined offer for multiple properties with the goal of preserving some of them.

We deserve everything coming our way. Unbelievable.

I don't know if these things are illegal in scouting but we have played them in pack meetings. Tug of War in the hallway. Parachute nerf ball where you have two adults hold a giant slingshot. One kid shoots it up in the air and the kids holding the parachute try to catch it. Badminton. Marble shooting inside of hula hoops on the floor so you don't have marbles all over. You can play other stuff with hula hoops too. There's one game that's a modified dodge ball that we have always thought was legal. You set the hula hoops up in a pyramid against a wall and then let the kids throw balls at them to knock them down. They are not throwing the balls at other kids, just the pyramids.

This is the first time reading something on scouter forum that I have fallen out of my chair. You have got to be kidding me.

The message I am getting here is that we want girls for their membership numbers and money but not because they add anything to the program or because we really want to serve them. It's jaw dropping that this person has no idea how insulting these comments are. However, I take hope in this. God is surely looking out for scouts in some way if no one in the mainstream media has yet reported on this.

Just to clarify, this is what I was upvoting.

This is the kind of thing I wonder about. We've been under a wind advisory in the Mid Atlantic region since Friday night. Everyone should know how dangerous March is. Brush fires are common this time of year unless it's actually raining. Why would you burn debris? This is why we have all the dumb rules in G2SS.

Except there is a lack of oversight on the part of BSA because it has traditionally been more interested in money and members than consistent application of its policies. Many COs are legacy COs and have a dim understanding of what they are responsible for. We've talked about that a lot on this forum. Many COs think their only commitment is to provide meeting space and a few signatures and units are loathe to draw anything more to their attention. They have been afraid the CO will dump them if it realizes the full extent of its responsibilities and liabilities. It is a weak link in BSA's YPP that it has known about for decades but never addressed.

I was going to say that part of improving YPT compliance would be reporting on how many checks were done and seeing the invoices on same. That's because I was once in a district that said it did checks, but didn't. They figured the mere fact of asking for approval to conduct a background check would suss out anyone with a problem, so why bother spending the money. I've heard rumors that practice continues in another council. However, if BSA is now delegating this to volunteer staff, maybe that council wasn't so out of line with BSA philosophies which, I agree, I don't think are all that focused on continuous quality improvement of YPP initiatives.

That may be true but some kind of local camp presence would need to remain for scouting to be functional. I assume you camp at town/county/state/park service facilities or private property. That kind of accessibility could be part of a formula but it would take some coordination and sophistication on the part of BSA and the affected LCs to propose it. Some councils near me have half a dozen camps. Clearly they could function with less. Others have one or none. Clearly their ability to function could be impacted.

I don't think humiliation has any place in scouting. Having 10 and 11 year old kids stand up in front of their peers let alone older guys and do something embarrassing just makes sensitive kids quit. It's not instructive. Good for you for recognizing that.