an_old_DC

On 5/24/2018 at 8:20 PM, bearess said:

Well, my son’s Troop (in a rural but very liberal state) already has mixed patrols.  And....nothing.  No membership,loss, nobody has complained.  Son enjoys Scouts, is enthused, and the Troop is growing.  It’s been great.  They currently have six girls, out of a troop of thirty.  I’d add that son has recruited two friends to join— in both cases, their parents expressed concern over the history of Scouts.  Sat down with the Scout aster, talked about where the program is and is headed, and signed their sons up.

As to what it looks like— I think normal.  The Troop is transitioning to Scout-led, which has its hiccups.  But the Scouts are learning and growing.  They are proud of their accomplishments and motivated to continue.  Adding girls has changed nothing, as far as I can see.  

It was interesting, a few of the leaders were talking about girls coming in, being better leaders/more mature, outshining the boys, being a distraction.  One of them asked my son if he thought that would happen.  He said “Well, it depends on the girl. Some will, some won’t”.  I think that is the perspective of most kids.  If the grownups can get out of the way, the kids can handle it fine.  Just like camping, cooking, hiking—same principal applies.  Let them lead.

I am curious how the leaders get away with flagrantly disregarding several National policies. Do they collect membership apps and dues from the girls? Do they submit Advancement reports for the girls? Is “Sam” really Samantha? Or are the girls really tagalongs?

are there registered female leaders over 21 at meetings and campouts?

35 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

So I do not see the volunteers as not following the  Scout Law. rather I see national not following the Scout Law, and manipulating  the situation to get what they want.

@Eagle94-A1 Yes, I fully agree with you for most of your post. Anybody who has been in Scouting for very long can see what will happen. The volunteers on the National steering committee know it too, as does the CSE. They are playing the long game while boots on the ground are trying to figure out the day to day operations.

that said, the volunteers in @bearesssons’ Troop clearly disregard National membership policies as well as YPT. She has posted several times that her sons Troop is co-ed. The fact is: Girls cannot be members of a Boy Scout Troop.

if they will ignore these policies, it makes you wonder whatever else they ignore.

36 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I talk to our UC/ADC fairly frequently. He was at our last CoH a few months ago. I've just never seen nor heard of this form. Maybe he copies what he needs off the JTE worksheet.

The email was a generic message from my council, so I think it went out to thousands of people.  

Well, all the details get loaded into the Detailed Assessment form in the electronic Commissioner Tools. He wouldn't get all he needs from the JTE scorecard, but he would get everything he needs in a detailed conversation with you. He could take notes during the visit, and then complete the form on-line later.

24 minutes ago, Saltface said:

@ZScout5

@an_old_DC

They're asking us (the Unit Key 3) to fill it out and send it in. We're supposed to receive a visit in a few months. 

That's not how our Council does this and it is not the process outlined by National. A Unit Commissioner, Assistant District Commissioner or District Commissioner should be scheduling a face-to-face Unit Visit with the Key Three and then discuss "unit health," during which time the Commissioner fills out the form.

When is the last time any sort of Commissioner visited your unit?

By the way, a diligent Commissioner of any type can pull all of the Section 2 numbers and reports themselves in advance.

@MikeS72posted this too but it bears repeating.

It sort of defeats the purpose of the Assessment if the unit is doing it on their own without a Commissioner even present.

@SaltfaceYes, I have completed a similar form...as a Commissioner during a Unit Visit. This is a Commissioner task. Has he asked for a time for the unit's Key Three to meet with him? That's when he should be filling it out with your help.

I get the sense National just wants girls to join, wants their parents to join, and wants the parents’ money—and is not too concerned about pesky details like Program requirements.

Now details like selling pink “Scout” t-shirts, new neckerchiefs and revamping a magazine? That’s a different story. National is all over brand management.

@Tampa TurtleI am sad to see you go. If I didn’t know you were in Tampa, I would often swear you were in my council.

i will pour you a cup of coffee around the virtual campfire.

thanks for all the thoughtful posts, and for the lighthearted ones too.

Call the Scout Executive. You need to know what somebody told him or her—especially since the Troop CC is not forthcoming.

it is very odd nobody contacted you before contacting the SE.

there is more to this story somehow.

15 minutes ago, NealOnWheels said:

 

The Scout Executive may choose to remove him from Scouting altogether.  If so you will get a letter and it should contain an appeals process.

 

The Council SE does not have authority to remove a Scout from BSA; only National can revoke membership. Now, the SE can absolutely request that National revoke membership. If the situation merits removal, National will then--after investigation-- revoke membership and that's that. However, that is usually for something criminal. The same goes for removing adults. 

I think OP needs to call the troop CC.

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

If this letter is coming from the unit/Chartered Organization, it really isn't appealable to district/council executives. It's a unit matter.

@David CO I believe we were posting simultaneously. The COR can certainly remove the Scout from its unit, however it cannot ban the Scout from all BSA activities. If the COR removes the youth, he certainly could join a different unit--if he wants.

31 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

I would find it strange if a Chartered Org sent a letter such as that, and it was not they who contacted you.  I would wait to see the actual letter and what it may/may not outline as far contact information or any next steps it outlines.   To ban from all BSA activities would seem to indicate to me that it is coming from Council (with National's knowledge)- a troop/CO itself cannot ban from all BSA activities, only those they coordinate (troop meetings, troop campouts, etc.).  They can't ban a registered scout from say council merit badge college or order of the Arrow weekends, for example.     

 

I would like to know who the letter is actually from, if it does show up.

I have worked with troops when the committee wanted to ban a Boy Scout from all BSA activities--and they were really upset when they found out they have no such authority.

Then again, I helped a unit when a Boy Scout was banned from all BSA activities by National while they investigated the events in question. However, there had been multiple SM and SM/CC conferences with the Scout before Council and National became involved, so the ban was not a surprise. BTW, National eventually decided things were not quite as they had been portrayed and the ban was lifted. Those letters all came from an attorney with National.

Also, technically, the Scout in question is removed from Scouting, and therefore is ineligible from participating, but people always want to use "ban." This makes me wonder if a unit is overstepping its authority as a letter from a BSA attorney would use "membership has been revoked" to describe the situation, rather than "ban."

@FireStone and @Buggie thank you for replying. Like I said, I am just curious.

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Most every young woman who joined my crew beamed with pride when I gave them their membership card, shook their hand, and said, "Welcome to the Boy Scouts of America."

 

I have had the exact experience!

I am putting this thread in I&P just in case it goes off the rails. I don't want to start any debates, judge anybody or imply anybody is more passionate than somebody else, I honestly am just curious about something.

So, for the folks who are excited about girls being able to join Scouts, BSA next year, were you a Boy Scout as a youth, are you an Eagle Scout, and have you been a Scoutmaster?

And because I don't want to cross post in a different forum, if you are excited about Scouts BSA members--along with Venturers and Sea Scouts--soon to become eligible to join OA, were you an Arrowman as a youth? Have you been Chapter Advisor or some other Lodge role as an adult?

1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

Hi, I'm Desertrat, and I'm an ISP survivor!

Wore the infamous red beret.

Camping merit badge earned fair and square, but had the non-required border color.

Earned the mandatory amount of skill awards to progress, only eight if I recall, but dang they were noisy.

Scout handbook had little outdoor material.  Written on a third grade level.

Eagle in 77.

The old time scouters guided us through the valley of the shadow of the ISP.   Sure, we wore funky threads, endured bad literature from National, but we got the old program.

@desertrat I am an ISP graduate too! Red beret and you forgot the knee high green tube top socks with shorts. For some reason I earned a TON of skill awards.

Old timers guided us too: Eagle Scout former USMC Scoutmaster and former Army ASM. We were hard core campers who always did a lot of pioneering. So we got the old program too

Geez, if the geniuses at National tell us girls love the program and want everything Boy Scouts has to offer, why change the name, drop "Boys'" from "Boys' Life" etc.?

Woke up this morning suddenly realizing that if girls will be able to join OA, then that means we will need adult women OA members at all chapter meetings, service projects, chapter campouts and other outings, etc. etc.etc. Even if the girls drive themselves to meetings and such, we will still need adult women OA members present.

That will be a giant headache.

By the way, I don’t worry about what a DE or DD thinks.

2 hours ago, FormerProfessional said:

The “blackballed“ naughty list may have been what the council employee was referring to.

Nope. Let’s just say I know for a fact I am not on that list

1 minute ago, FormerProfessional said:

I worked with many of those kinds of DEs. There are bad ones. I agree. 

 

Some aren't "bad", I would say they are naïve or, well, let's just say they aren't the brightest light in the harbor.

1 minute ago, FormerProfessional said:

 

My point is if the district doesn’t do well it has no effect on the volunteers personal well being or the volunteers family.  You still can pay the bills, eat, all of the basics of life.

For the DE it could cost them their job and therefore effect their family.

The DE has more on the line in the big picture than a volunteer.  

Volunteers can walk away, drop the ball, don’t complete the task and life goes on for the volunteer.  For a DE their job may not.

 

I understand. I have held key district committee positions for several years. I know how DEs get put on PIPs, and I know what their office environment is like when they are under FOS goals.

Then again, when a district is doing well, too many professionals act like it is magic or as a result of their "guidance", and they fail to acknowledge the role of volunteers' efforts.

45 minutes ago, FormerProfessional said:

...  Volunteers with contempt for professionals make the career of Scouting not very enjoyable sometimes....

...and professionals who will not answer a phone call and take several days to reply to an email make the life of a District Committee Chair not very enjoyable, especially when the District Chair has to teach the DE how to write a business letter, how to make a sales pitch, how to close a deal...and oh yeah, teach him or her about BSA policies, procedures and practices, not to mention the Aims and Methods because the DE was never a Cub Scout, Boy Scout or Venturer. 

I have trained three DEs over the years, so I get it. My point is that many--not all but many--professionals treat volunteers as some sort of cog in the wheel that can be replaced. Actually, its the DEs who come and go.

big open field + tent city + few actual unit leaders + adolescent male and female "Arrow-people" mixing freely....

I am not an LDS Scouter but their timing is starting to look pretty good to me.