an_old_DC

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Several posts on the Vigil Honor facebook page comment on that, as well as comments on a ceremonies FB group, and my lodge chief,  who is  heavily invovled in AIA on the section level.

That annoucement is suppose to be made at NOAC this summer from all indicators above. I know a lot of folks who will be ticked off.

 

I am hearing all of this through the grapevine as well. Word on the street also is an announcement at NOAC.

Regarding a breaking point, it is all adding up quickly for me. Scouts BSA announcement, Councils turning a blind eye to a lack of female leaders in packs, professionals pretending early adopter packs are not running co-ed dens, professionals ignoring conversations right in front of them about troops planning to run co-ed, and now the OA membership eligibility changes.

I am not anti-girls. I have had young women in my crew for almost 12 years, including trips to Philmont, but this is all starting to be too much.

This is incredibly disappointing. 

Plus the whole backdoor approach to allowing previous years of experience and camping to retroactively count rubs salt in the wound.

I keep hearing rumors that National Lodge is going to "forbid" use of Native American regalia in ceremonies soon. In less than 5 years it'll be a meaningless "honor club."

7 hours ago, wisihalacon said:

I may also need to contact the head of Tupelo Lodge to put an end to these shenanigans. How do I manage that?

It figures a parent is involved in this nonsense—and probably one who is not an OA member.

you should be able to find contact info for the Lodge Advisor, adult volunteer, on your lodges website. Your Chapter Advisor might know (some are really knowledgeable and some not so much).

@Eagle1993 @Gwaihir yeah, I get what you mean. The problem is parents are seeing this drip,, drip, drip steady stream from National about how “Scouting is for the whole family.” What happens when their son wants to join Troop 123 out of their Catholic Church but it is a boys-only troop so the daughter can’t join? So she can join a small, girls only troop out of the Lutheran Church, but it’s program isn’t as good. They will end up feeling BSA, or whatever it will be called by then, lied to them. Then the complaining will really begin

5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

 

Could be.  But I think many unit commissioners are generalists.  Do they all really know how to solve the unit retention problem?

 

If they are good and are dedicated to helping their unit, Yes. Admittedly, UC are hard to recruit and really good ones are few and far between.

5 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Now that the LDS have announced their intention to leave, the move to co-ed could happen as early as the NAM in a couple of weeks.  "We've heard from the field and parents that our linked troops idea is unworkable and that they'd prefer to be co-ed.  Therefore, blah, blah, blah."

I hope you are wrong but I absolutely can see that happening. I have a hunch this whole thing has already been planned out.

58 minutes ago, David CO said:

BSA is taking an incremental approach to changing over to co-ed scouting. It has no intention to keep the girl units permanently segregated.

Absolutely agree with David. Anybody with any real-world experience knows this “linked troop” business with everything shared between two troops except the SM will often lead to mixed patrols in one troop. Especially after parents and girls get used to seeing it in packs. I can hear the “but that’s how the pack did it” complaining now. Then Scouters will realize just how difficult it is to start a new unit—especially without a critical mass of girls.

I am hearing from unit’s in my Council and seeing all sorts of social media posts across the country about how their unit flat out intends to go co-ed with girl and boy patrols mixed and the professionals do not correct them. Council-level professionals I work with are already saying they cannot prevent unit’s from doing that as long as on paper the unit’s are separate.

26 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'm sure you are one of the experts.  By experts I mean real experts - someone with the experience, skills, and vision to help a unit improve it's retention.  This is not simply someone from council or national that got blessed with a title.  

As for who they are generally - based on how things work today - that's unclear.  The role description is someone knowledgeable in developing a unit plan and has experience in retaining a high percentage of the members in a scout unit.  That person would then go out and be a resource to other units that do not.  So, if you've got a troop of scouts, struggles with retention of older scouts, and wants to do improve retention, these experts would be out there to work with them.   We might think of them as a consultant.  Someone who gets engaged for a limited amount of time to help a unit improve.  Once done, they step back - perhaps being on call in case questions arise.

 

So, you mean Unit Commissioners?

37 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As for Rogue Packs and Troops, some folks against girls joining will say it is because of these Rogue Packs and Troops that we are now in this situation.

It isn't the sole reason but it certainly is a contributing cause.

Every story from National's PR juggernaut and every story in the media has a quote from somebody saying something to the effect that, their daughter has always tagged along and done everything with the boys and they are absolutely ecstatic now because she can finally do it "officially." When the professionals acknowledge and cite it for the record, you realize how prevalent it really must be.

41 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

And therein lies the problem.  Few volunteers really have a depth of experience actually starting new units.  I have done it and it is a long play.  

 

I have done it too, and most people dont realize how exhausting it really is. You have to focus on the long game of putting all the pieces in place, recruiting and training adults, and recruiting boys (yeah, I said it) for future growth while still getting meetings and campouts done in the short term. 

12 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 But look at the number of units that have ignored BSA policy of boys only for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts over the past 40 years and how what they did is the  policy effective June 11th for Cub Scouts and February 1st for Boy Scouts. call me cynical, but I foresee units ignoring BSA policy and going full coed. Heck my own unit has Scouters stating that the girls' troop will be on paper only. They will be "Linked Troops" sharing everything; equipment, meeting nites, camp outs, summer camp, and adult volunteers.

Call me cynical, but I am experienced, and as long as packs sell enough popcorn and bring in enough FOS money, the professionals will ignore packs having co-ed dens.

And as long as council and districts can grow their number of units, they wont care if its on-paper only and the troops are functionally co-ed

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

If law enforcement confirmed the "he was 30, she was 12" story, and yet the CC continues to say saying something different, I would think that neither of them should be serving in any Pack leadership capacity. She's dishonest and is covering for a child-molester, and he, well, his record speaks for itself. He should not be around children.

Get your District Exec in on this asap. 

If this isn't resolved to your satisfaction, switch to another Pack. If this guy was allowed on overnights in my Pack, I'd be moving on down the road to the next Pack immediately. 

I would bypass the DE and go right to Scout Executive over sex offender concerns.

1 minute ago, Gwaihir said:

So then what do girls call themselves?  Just Scouts? girl Scouts with a lower case g? 

According to the new marketing material, girls would just call themselves Scouts

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Thanks for link.  Yes "I am a Scout" , but there is no mention that a scout CANNOT say they are a "Boy Scout"

 

They could say they are a Boy Scout but there will not be a Boy Scout program

1 minute ago, Gwaihir said:

I'd bet $5 National will eventually crack down on those Boy Scout troops. 

You are probably right. Of course they never cracked down on rogue packs full of tag along girls “unofficially” earning badges, and they never cracked down on rogue troops with tag along girls on outings...but that’s different.🙄

36 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Out troop is busy printing shirts...

• We are the BOY Scouts of America
• Viva la resistance!!

They will be on sale soon....

No Boy Scout troop with a long and proud history is going to drop Boy and call themselves Scout Troop Xxx

6 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

No change from yesterday, despite insinuations to the contrary.

 

@RememberSchiff

check out the Scout Me In resources here

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Scout-Me-In-and-Scouts-BSA.pdf

no mention of Boy Scouts after February 1. Youth that age will say “I am a Scout.” 

Summer 2020 will be the end of an era, which is kinda sad.

Talked about this at a council-level meeting this morning. Interesting observation: of all the professionals and volunteers with a “what’s the big deal? Get over it attitude” , none of them were Arrowmen as youth. So basically, they cannot relate

59 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Have not seen the new YPT2 training, but if it using the policies that the EA Cub Scout dens are following, and as reported by others who met with a national level person and asked about this, then YES, meetings with girls present will also require a registered female over 21 in attendance.  Why I do not like the double standard that 2 females can work with all male dens, but not two males.

This is what I am hearing too. 

This thread blows my mind. Six pages...so far?

How can it even remotely be considered hazing if the SM has a quiet conversation away from other Scouts, discussing why there was a safety concern and how it can be avoided in the future? Its a quiet teaching moment that ends with clipping a card's corner. Nobody else even knows the card was clipped.

2 hours ago, blw2 said:

In my opinion, a person that only camps once or even twice per year should be a committee member....& not necessarily that committee folks should camp routinely.  More that they can and should on rare occasion, in their capacity of "observe and advise".  As I mentioned before, a troop really shouldn't need that many ASM's, so what would be the point?  My gut tells me that a good ratio would be maybe half of the trips.....

I agree with you but I couldn't get the CC to go along with that and I didn't want to make empty threats. She would only agree to move them from ASM to comm member if they wouldn't camp one a school year.

When I was SM, the troop had approximately 70 Scouts. the troop ran well when I was SM with two strong ASMs. 

9 minutes ago, TMSM said:

I am not sure why someone would want to be an ASM but not want to camp. ASMs should assist the needs of the SM and you outdoor chair should be making sure you have enough adults on each campout.

Been there, done that. It’s their ego. They want to stand around in the back of the room in an ASM shirt and tell everybody “I am one of the troop's Scoutmasters.” In reality, they do nothing.

As SM, I held a beginning of the year planning meeting for ASMs. As part of that meeting, I brought a calendar of campouts for that school year, and told them my expectation is all ASMs camp sometimes...and any ASM who does not camp a minimum of once per school year would be moved to committee member on the next charter. A couple stepped up and began to camp, a few became committee members and a few quit.

@Hawkwin, I am sorry for your, and your daughter's situation. Seriously.

This is what happens when adult leaders rush in to something with no plan and no regard for National's policies.

But that's water under the bridge now. How to best salvage the situation?

Are you receiving any input or guidance from the CM? Any communication at all?

What happens at pack meetings? Are there other girls in the pack?

If so, they should all be put in one den so they can have a den experience.

it is probably also worth a phone call or two to see if that district or council has an "early adopter champion" who can offer guidance and direction.

18 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

By "next Aug." do you mean August of this year or August 2019?  Just curious.

August of this year, when school starts