an_old_DC

31 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Materials will arrive in Scout Shops starting June 1 and girls can register in any family Pack starting June 11.  Article has some info regarding working with your COs and preparing for the change.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/04/16/heres-when-and-how-you-can-start-welcoming-girls-into-your-cub-scout-pack/

 

Not quite. It reads:

"some early adopter councils are continuing that enthusiasm into spring recruiting, with registration options for girls available to all councils starting June 11, 2018."

There is an option, if they choose, for June but not all early adopter councils are beginning June 11. Some, like mine, are waiting until next Aug.

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Agreed, but on the flip side, we violate the other tenet of coed scouting in that the other boy-only den didn't sign up or agree to a girl joining all of their den meetings. We will be doing some activities with them (by invite) but I am cautious about our intrusion. We are going to try and take advantage of the opportunities we have with them and perhaps do multiple den-only requirements when we are with them.

@Hawkwin, why doesn't your pack follow BSA requirements for early adopter packs? You can't have a den of one girl. Where are the other girls in your pack?

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

And as a father of almost a Lone Cub Scout now, I can certainly relate as many of the activities and requirements are geared around a Den or a Pack.

We worked on Maestro over the weekend and found the requirements basically impossible without a Den/Pack:

Do two of the following:
a. Teach your den the words and melody of a song. Perform the song with your den at your den or pack meeting.
b. Create original words for a song. Perform it at your den or pack meeting.
c. Collaborate with your den to compose a den theme song. Perform it at your pack meeting.
d. Write a song with words and music that expresses your feelings about an issue, a person, something you are learning, a point of the Scout Law, etc. Perform it at your den or pack meeting, alone or with a group.
e. Perform a musical number by yourself or with your Webelos den in front of an audience.

----------------------

Only one we can do as written is (e). There are of course a myriad of other Adventures that are worded the same way.

 

if you are writing about your daughter, then your pack isn't doing "early adopter" right.

14 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

My biggest concerns are the following:

1) What happens when "linked troops" are having a "joint" meeting, but there is no female Scouter present for the meeting?

2) What happens when "linked troops" are suppose to have a "joint" camp out, but no female Scouter is able to attend?

3) What happen when "linked troops" are suppose to do a week long activity, but no female Scouter is able to attend?

I think @qwazse and @TampaTurtle are spot on. Those units will do what they want, and with tour permits being a thing of the past, they will get away with it unless there is a crisis of some sort.

38 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

....

I find that adults who never had the scouting experience tend to vision a troop of advancement, ....

Training could help a lot. Mentoring would go along ways as well. 

 

@Eagledad, your experience mirrors mine.

Why is it that the adults who were never Scouts resist training and mentoring, and scream the loudest about changes away from a "sign off-focused" program. And if mom or dad was a pack's CC or CM and now are CC or whatever with the troop, the SM is bound to get headaches.

I remember feeling sorry for some Scouts when we got back to the parking lot after a campout, and mom or dad were waiting to pick up their son said "Hi son. Did you have fun? Did you get lots of sign offs?" 

In 11 years of being a Crew Advisor, I have never had a female or male member who is not an OA member express any interest in OA. One young man was also our Chapter Chief, and later Lodge Secretary. Everybody thought that was cool but there was never any interest in joining him.

just my experience. Ymmv 

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

Venturing would make sense- technically they are not allowed today, because the OA membership requirement on camping nights specifically states "troop or team", no mention of crew.  

The hitch historically is that girls cannot earn First Class as a Boy Scout, and the only way for males to earn First Class is through their troop, which is where males would have been elected.  so crews cannot hold OA elections because their members do not meet eligibility requirements. 

16 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I thought girls wouldn’t be in OA until 2020 but was told that Explorer and Venturing would start OA elections next year.  Has anyone else heard of that change?

How could they earn First Class in time?

@Eagledad good post.

this National guideline also has two other purposes. First, it forces Scouts to talk to their SM first, rather than get a blue card at the Scout Shop and go see any MBC without ever meeting with SM. Secondly, there is a marginal element of protecting MBC privacy because it prevents people from widely sharing full contact info in list form for all MBC.

47 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

thankfully, our troop does not follow that rule.

Your troop does not follow Guide to Advancement?

1 hour ago, Scoutmaster Teddy said:

. Even though I am in the Order I had an adult member from outside of troop present for my troop's election. I even delayed my Troop's election for two weeks after I found that someone "edited" the camping nights on our Troop Web Host site for an adult and their scout. 

@Scoutmaster Teddy the Election Team should have had an Adult Advisor with them for the election. All of them should have been from another troop.

what I am really curious about is how somebody edited the nights on the troops web site. Who had access to that? If you don’t mind sharing...

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

This is what causes problems: folks ignoring the procedures and doing their own thing.

 

OA Election Team Should NEVER have added a Scout's name to the elected sheet simply because the SM recommends them. That is not how it is done. From personal experience, I know youth on an election team can get intimidated at times by adults. So my question is, where was the adult adviser to intervene on behalf of the election team?

Yes, absolutely agree. The SM was clearly wrong last year, the election team should not have acquiesced to the request, and Adult Advisor should have been running interference.

15 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

... the SM may not override the vote of the scouts.

So, yes, this is a learning tool. I've found that this usually means figuring out what younger scouts don't like about your behavior. Deciding if you want to change that behavior.  And changing accordingly.

Spot on advice from @qwazse

I was SM for 5 years and was one of the Adult Advisors working with our Chapter's Elections Teams for 50+ elections over the years, so I saw it in my troop as well as at other troops. This happens, and is a learning opportunity for growth.

I have been asking for this for years and am glad it finally happened.

27 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@cyphertext, just to be clear on your position, should an SM have the right to recommend a suitable counselor for his/her scout?

It is not a “should” question. Can a SM recommend or encourage? Absolutely. Forbid or deny, No.

On 3/15/2018 at 8:41 PM, numbersnerd said:

So 2 1/2 months to complete a program we are told should really take the better part of 8 months?

To apply as an early adopter pack, the pack must create an accelerated advancement program so any girl who wants to can advance a rank (not Bobcat) by May 31. This plan must be approved by the local council before allowing the pack to be an early adopter

18 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

In what way? Seriously, I've not read these guidelines so if you think I am doing something wrong, I'd like to know what it is

 

You are getting no direction from the CM?? You do realize you cannot have a den of one girl, right? Plus you need a female co-DL or ADL. And as for adding more girls to the den or pack, as an early adopter pack, the window has closed and you cannot accept more girls until next fall.

https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/familyscouting/pdf/Early-Adopter-Program-AQ.pdf

12 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

No, as I am a newly minted Den Leader (about a week old), my focus has been on my training, not on the number of girls in the rest of the Pack. Not really my issue per what I have seen in my training so far (2 of 3 learning plans completed so perhaps there is something about recruitment in the 3rd plan but nothing suggests such from the modules).

 

We might end up that way. We certainly haven't closed our doors to new applicants.

So many questions with this situation as it does not follow National’s clearly articulated and well publicized guidelines for early-adopter packs....

Where are the CM and CC in all this? Didn’t they need to agree to early-adopter practices with your Council? Is your Council not requiring the pack to follow said practices? 

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

My Pack has not been very successful in their recruitment. I am currently a Den Leader of 1 (we had one more that backed out for some reason) and I don't know how many others there are in the Pack. I am going to spend some time trying to recruit more Webelos to get us up to 3 or 4 for the Den.

Den of one girl and you don't know how many other girls are in the pack?

National has stipulated that early adopter packs must, among other things,

"Register a minimum of 4 girls into an existing pack in an all-girl den"

If there less than four girls of the same age, all of the girls should be in one den of mixed ages.

Is your pack not following National directives?

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

The BSA has made a decision that girls are going to be full members in Cub Scouts this year and BSA4G along with OA next year (Venturing/Explorers members eligible).  They also are allowing units to decide to be unisex, which is great.  

By units do you mean packs, or has there been other info from National?

regarding girls joining OA and Venturing/Exploring unit’s being eligible, was this formally communicated from National? And if so, please provide a link.

5 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The World Crest is a symbol of unity and world brotherhood. If you don't believe that and you are free to do so, then don't wear the World Crest on your uniform.

To understate I was EXTREMELY unhappy with women becoming SM's back in the 80's, that said I would still participate with them in any scout function.  We were all scout leaders.

 

gblotter  is entitled to his opinion.

Oh, I know....

Agree to disagree

8 hours ago, David CO said:

I suppose, if you're the only one, it makes you the chairman.

It does not make you the District Chair. It makes you a COR who showed up at the annual district meeting to exercise their voting right.

34 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting"

 

Family Camping

Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping,

that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in

overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one

BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their

children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)

 

 

I just did a quick search and came up with these examples. Then I got depressed and quit. The first one may be the worst.

35 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

National BSA doesn't control your local camp experience. No one obligates you to even use your local camp if they fail to live up to your ideals. Pick a different one if you don't like it - or ask them to better represent what scouting should be.

 

I have been associated with three different councils as an adult. I cannot see any of them not following National’s direction. So yes, local camp experience will absolutely be driven by National’s “guidance,” and “suggestion.”

15 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

 because the youth members may have their own viewpoints that differ from yours. 

Did National ask youth what they thought about girls in Boy Scout troops? I know some adults made sure to send the survey to several Venturers and OA eboard members who took the survey. Those young men are all against girls in troops. Venturing and Exploring are different and the guys are ok with that.

interestingly, all the girls in my crew are against it as well.