Col. Flagg

I was being purposely obtuse. I KNOW I can ask. The POINT was that I know better. I live by the rules. I read them and I abide by them. Since BSA is a membership organization and can make their own rules, I don't openly ask them to change them just to accommodate me. Why? Because I believe in allowing organizations -- even ones I disagree with -- to do what they like, how they like. I don't ask to cut in line at Whataburger because I am hungrier than the people in front of me, I wait my turn. If you read the article she goes on to say how she cannot go to the world jamboree? "Her primary concern is trying to get the BSA to speed up the inclusion date from 2019. Unless admitted very soon, she’ll be unable to participate in certain activities like the 2019 International Jamboree, to be held in West Virginia." Really? She can't join a Venturing Crew and go? Her Ontario unit can't go? Please. And if you read further you see her father's fingerprints all over this issue. Lawyers....Shakespeare had the right idea.

Oh, I suspect national has no clue what they are doing or going to do about Venturing. From this rather detailed conversation I hear, the plan (at least according to these folks who each tried to out-do each other in how "insider" they were to Irving) is to fold Venturing in to Boy Scouts again. Girls would go to girl troops and boys to boy troops. The thought was that why would girls join Venturing if they really wanted Eagle. One person claimed that Venturing would simply pick up the Boy Scout rank process. Either way, my unit is in limbo. Sure we will continue to have fun like we always do, but growing the unit is impossible. I have no answers as to what the future holds. Who wants to join a group that cannot articulate their long term prospects?

And that's not asking for special treatment? BSA has already said it will be 2019. Asking to get in earlier *IS* asking for special permission, an exception, special consideration. I'd like to do my BOR from 1981. It was the only thing I didn't do for Eagle. Can I ask for special consideration? I know a handful of Life Scouts that were too involved in high school stuff to complete a few requirements toward Eagle, can they ask for special consideration? BSA has said when they will open Boy Scouts to girls. End of story....unless you are like this girl who wants preferential treatment.

So.... Overheard a conversation in my district recently at a large training event. The leaders of my district, several others, and even council are saying they've effectively "given up" on Venturing since "girls are coming in to Boy Scouts, so what good is Venturing any way?" To test what I heard I arranged to meet with my DE and discuss how Venturing could be really promoted and showcased during 2018. She wouldn't even take the meeting, saying that "future events would dictate what happens to Venturing." So what am I supposed to do with my Crew now? I can't even get support from my district to help grow the unit and the program. If this turns out to be what BSA has in store for Venturing, I've spent my last year in this uniform.

Can't? I am the SM of the girls troop. You are the SM of the boys troop. We are going camping but neither of us have critical mass to go unless we go together (2-deep, # of adults, cars, etc.). *BOOM* you now have two units camping together. If mom or dad want to go along exactly how many troops are going to say no? We don't officially have family camping now, yet many troops do it. How is having gender-separate units going to stop anyone from doing family camping?

There are digital alternatives that can be done which fix many of the technology problems noted in this thread. There are free programs (and low cost commercial ones) that BSA could use which would 1) standardize the process which will save time, 2) implement a standard method for providing photos, etc., without losing data, and 3) allow for a digital workflow (again, standardized) which would allow everyone to submit the same way, using the same open, free and easy to use system. Case in point: Google Classroom. This software is quite easy to use and could easily be customized to fit the Eagle process. It is easy to use and comes with tutorials to help the Luddites. Just an example.

Hobby Lobby has some nice wooden display frames that are made for showing off sports jerseys. You could put it in one of those if you like. I have seen that done in a few houses here in the Lone Star state. One guy has his Cub and Eagle uniform in two different ones his man cave.

If that's the case, doing all these things to force the issue of her getting special treatment would not be so prevalent. She'd be happy to take the win of getting girls in Scouting and move on. The fact she's still pushing to get credit for various things related to getting Eagle demonstrates she's looking for MORE special treatment. It detracts from her role in the bigger picture and cheapens it. In the end it was about what she could get out of it.

The local units are trying to urge Texas Parks & Wildlife to take steps to better mark the area. I understand there are a few unit/Eagle projects to draw attention to the issues noted above. With lake levels fluctuating so wildly, and the poor markings both at the ramp and on the lake, the power company needs to do something. If not them, then the parks dept since they control the access point and lake use.

I'd hold on to it. It costs nothing to pop it in a tote and store in the attic. I recently found similar items from my dad. I wasn't going to wear them as a kid. As an adult I treasure them being there...especially as I lose him.

We use TM and they have confirmed they will be able to ingest BSA advancement data just like they do training data. Our crew uses Scoutbook but I am not sold on it. For a small 20 person crew at $40/year it is okay. For a troop that has so much to manage I could not imagine using it versus TM. I highly doubt BSA will ever be at the point where they compel units to use only SB. That would be a bad move on their part.

I didn't think it was possible to get six pages on this topic. Let's face it, like Star Wars, the BSA faithful will stick around to see how things play out and then leave. The older among us will long for the wit and promise of "A New Hope". The younger among us will embrace the new even with all of its warts and poorly developed structure. Why? Because that's what society has become: Flair over substance. I suspect there's a parallel between the Republic and BSA, or between Jar-Jar and Mike Saurbaugh, but I don't have time to make it.

This is only PART of any branding strategy. The NEXT question is: "What is your opinion of Boy Scouts?" A brand may be known for all the wrong reasons. GM comes to mind. Chrysler? Yugo? Spam? Exxon? Man City? Having BSA at a branding summit is like having Hillary at an ethics seminar or Trump at a personal relationship building workshop. There's just no "street cred". In the US we have this company that rates "initial quality" for cars. Several (really bad) car makers use this term to tout their brands. What does it mean? It is a measure of problems experienced within the first 90 days of ownership. How many times does ANY car have issues in the first 90 days? Why is this even measured? It's a useless stat designed to let poor quality cars APPEAR to have good quality. Talk to me in 5 years about these cars and then see how good their "quality" is. THIS is BSA summed up in my opinion. They look for meaningless things to hang their hat on while the REAL issues go unresolved. As @Tampa Turtle said, image over substance.

As Dr. Evil would say, "Riiight". Presumably there are all sorts of things units shouldn't do, yet they do anyway. "Family troops" are already a reality. Adding girl troops (if it actually gets implemented as such, but I suspect units will combine anyway) just gives those units an "out" to go that next step further. BSA has always missed the mark in executing such changes. Doubling the need for volunteer leaders is not a successful model for an organization hemorrhaging members and volunteers. And let's not pretend that units are going to successfully "leverage" already over-leveraged leaders. That hasn't worked for crews, troops or packs yet. It only INCREASES volunteer burn out.

There's one problem with this whole debate about this girl getting credit for Eagle: Currently girls are NOT allowed to be in Boy Scouts (troops, not crews) in the United States OR do ANY work that will get credited toward Eagle. This proves that her "fight" was NOT about getting girls in Scouts. It was about HER getting Eagle and nothing else. I say too bad. You won the war but lost your battle. Take your triumph and move on.

@Cubber, so you are saying that guys (and I assume girls) shouldn't have their same-sex groups in which to relax and be themselves? Then why do guys have golf weekends and women have scrap-booking weekends. Girls night out? Guys night out? If the desire to "just hang out with the guys/girls" wasn't such a big thing, then why do so many people do it? My daughter answered the question quite well. She said, "I like hanging out without guys around because I don't have to put on make up. I can wear what I want. Eat what I want. Say what I want. Be crazy with my girl friends. I can watch what I want and not have to pretend to like something." I'd wager if you asked guys they'd say something similar. These barriers are real and usually don't come down until you find the person you will marry. THAT is why both girls AND guys need a single sex environment.

Great post. Why is it so hard for parents to let their kids do all the work? I'd ask the rhetorical question if parents do the same thing for the kid's school work, but the answer I suspect it most likely affirmative. There seems to be a high correlation between the parents that hover in Scouting and those that hover for school work. This is the equivalent of cutting a kid's meat for them. @Eagle94-A1, I really feel for you and your efforts. If the SM has not fully bought in to the patrol method and boy-led approach, AND he is not afraid to act as gate keeper to keep the adults at bay, then it is truly an up hill battle.

My poor attempt at humor. Since you guys hold yourselves up as "old guys" I figured you (and only you) would have listened to the Lil' Rascals on radio live. I blew the set up of the joke. I blame online forums.

Good Lord. It was a nicely worded question she could either answer or not. You guys need a consistency filter because you sure don't apply rules evenly.

Spot on. And notice I used the term "adult Scouter". I did that purposely so as not to imply "parents" were needed at ANY Boy Scout or Venturing function. Scouting in those two programs need the MINIMUM of adult leaders around...EVER!! We don't need mom or dad the parent. We don't need sister Susie or brother Johnny.

Actually, I was addressing your comments about chauvinistic male leaders when I said the girls will lose out. @Stosh is exactly right when he says the boys will lose out. I suspect he's talking about the degradation of the single-sex Scouting program that has been so successful, and the erosion of places where guys can go to "be guys" without people thinking that's a bad thing. If you think the "new parents" (I assumed you imply these are the parents of girls) will suddenly sign up, then you and I have two TOTALLY different experiences in Scouting. Whether incoming guys or girls, whether Boy Scouts or Venturing, "new parents" avoid volunteering like the plague. The younger they are the more this is true (in my experience). I have yet to see, in over 13 years as an adult leader, a trickle (let alone stampede) of new parents joining to help. As for training and BSA's materials, again, things are lacking. Wood badge does nothing to help Scouters understand allowing the patrol method to work, grounding helicopter parents/leaders or in addressing the most common needs affecting troops and packs. The training materials discuss HOW to conduct a training session but not what to discuss. The last thing one wants it a YouTube Scouter teaching anything. There's the Scout Handbook. If that cannot be used to teach the program then we are in HUGE trouble. One thing bothers me in all of this. Your posts seems to rely a great deal on adult intervention. Maybe I am inferring too much. Maybe I'm not. The main role of adult leaders is to train the Scouts to do their jobs. Once they are trained it is the SCOUTS that teach TFC and such, not the adults. Adult leaders are around for health and safety or being MBCs. Anything more and, to steal from Jeff Foxworthy, "You might be a helicopter parent." Not saying "you" means you specifically...more the general "you" including all of us.

Yeah, He Who Must Not Be Named. You can speak my name, I don't bite....hard. (Sorry Austin Powers).

Paperwork does not make the REQUIREMENTS harder. And most units have adults to help the Scouts through the adult-developed paperwork maze. MBs earned in a day or a few hours. Parents emailing and texting leaders about requirements. The process was slower back then which made it harder. The Scout had to do everything themselves. Never heard of a helicopter parent unless they were actually pilots.

Yeah new interface had me thrown too. I think it works when you click the + sign for each post you want to quote. In the lower right a "multi quote" box pops up (at least for me) and then you click that.

No offense, but I have not seen a commissioner in 12 years. Looking at our district website we have 36 troops in our district and only 2 DCs. A larger number of packs and only 4 DCs for them. I know for a fact 2 of those 6 people are nearly immobile. The other four are so involved with their troops that they wouldn't have time to visit 5 units a year. If BSA is betting on DCs to pick up the slack they may want to count how many belly buttons they have in those roles who can actually do the job. I'll wager most districts have paper DCs only, if any. I know mine is like that, as are the surrounding districts.