Col. Flagg

I suspect the international sign of using a when it was a joke. Or maybe it's just having spent 3 years in public school in London that allows me to interpret.

I think BP makes a good point. If the school supplies metal knives AND has a "zero tolerance" rule about knives, they are already exercising "judgement" on when to apply the rule and when not. They clearly allow knives on campus because they supply them. I suspect the statute is nor written in so much detail as to to say "Knives are only permitted if the school supplies them", because that, as you say @NJCubScouter would not be "zero tolerance; so at the onset the is no real "zero tolerance" in the law. And give the administrators and teacher exercise judgement every day when they don's s

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I can only imagine how confused folks must be inside and outside of the LDS community.

Wow. Well, it sounds fishy to me. I mean, no one ever says "You owe this" without showing what is owed and why? If they cannot break it down then that's a red flag in my book. I would not be cutting a check to any group that could not tell me how my money is being used OR what I am getting for that cost.

If the pack and the troop belong to the same charter org, there could be a few different issues at play. The troop will usually have their own dues ($34, $46 if you add in Boys' Life). Some troops charge other annual fees to cover awards, ranks, equipment, etc. So the minimum you could be expected to pay a troop would be $34 ($46 if you wanted Boys' Life). Packs would be similar. Their dues to BSA would be $34 ($46) for each Scout. Like troops, packs might have "other" expenses for which they collect "dues". For example: Troop 123 has annuals dues of $100 per Scout. Of that $100

Yeah, that was what I thought too at first. I think it is just that the guys doing the 11-13 program want to stick with that because that's what they know. The 14-17 guys know how to run their program and really don't want to "fight" the 11-13 leaders for who will run the unit. Of course, being LDS guys there are all too nice to get in to a political war, so they just avoid the confrontation. The 11-13 leaders see the unit as "theirs" and the 14-17 leaders, rather than hassle with it, just go on to other things. The 14-17 boys have either a) if the are Eagles have dropped Scouts, b) if Ea

Be careful what you wish for. BSA has been known to cave to peer pressure. All it takes is for one person to complain about WB "beading" ceremonies as cultural appropriation (use of beads, beads being Native American, etc.) and there go all your beads. Think it can't happen? Ask any Scouter who was in an OA ceremony team as a youth. No more "war paint", no more bare chests, no more firing arrows to start the fire, no more "taps" at tap outs. Did BSA have stupid ceremonies that put people in danger? Sure. Using rubbing alcohol on someone's chest and lighting it was a baaaad idea. Hanging a

The problem lies in the execution of the program. The 11-13 LDS units were totally focused on trail to FC and nothing else. Kids made FC, maybe Star, and then moved up to the 14+ unit. Since locally many of the leaders stay with one unit or the other, they get entrenched in their own littler Scouting universe. Could they learn? Of course. But it seems few local units are willing to learn the Eagle process. Our unit has taken in 5 LDS kids so far as a result. They know we have a good mentoring program and that their boys will learn how to get to Eagle.

I think the break down is in the definition. Zero tolerance should not mean leaving good judgement at the door. The law can be written to have judgement exercised while applying the intent of the rule. Suspending a third grader for bringing a "splork" to school is different from another kid bringing a buck knife to school. Yes, even then both can be accidents and require judgement. And when one uses judgement you quickly discern which was truly an accident and which one wasn't.

This is exactly right. Philmont is a one-shot submission. Seabase is a "rolling" lottery. Where most units fail is that they pick one trek on specific dates (e.g. third week in June). If they don't get that slot they're out of luck.

What is really scary is what could happen 5 or 10 years from now. Folks can make accusations well after-the-supposed-fact and you could be at risk. That's a scary proposition as a volunteer leader. Sadly one of many reasons why I "retired".

I don't think my LDS friends got the memo. Most of the crew and team leaders are retiring or going to work on other programs. The 11-13 year old units have no clue how to help guys get to Eagle. This is a big problem for those units which is why if any 14+ LDS Scouts want to make Eagle they are going to non-LDS units. Most, from what I am told, are Eagling-out and then they're done.

We do White Elephant. Basically the same thing: Bring a wrapped gift of $10 or so. Can be food, toys, gags, etc., but must be Scout appropriate. Gifts go in to a pile and chairs in a circle around the pile. Guys each take a number (we have 75 Scouts). Scouts have 10 seconds to 1) select a gift, 2) "steal" a gift. Stolen gifts can only be stolen 3 times, then they stay with their fourth owner). Gifts have been Scout gear, candy, food items, bag of TP (obviously a gag gift), gift cards, etc.

Barry, this role came about in our unit due to an over-zealous district rep and a bit of shenanigans at council with regard to paperwork. We had a Scout kicked back to us because of a computer issue with council. His records were pristine, nonetheless, it took several weeks of calls and visits to council to get it straightened out. That was over 10 years ago. Since putting our checks and balances in place we have had zero issues. In fact, the once grumpy (well, truth be told he's still grumpy, but not to us anymore) district rep barely passes an eye over our kids' paperwork. He knows it's

Locally this is correct with one exception: Boys over 14 are being given the option of going to troops. Few are from what I hear. Why? As leaders tell it 1) LDS boys are reluctant to join non-LDS units, and 2) Some guys are more in to other things than what non-LDS units do as Scouts. I asked a friend what that meant and he was pretty frank. He said his crew basically worked on stuff to get guys to Eagle and didn't do much "real Scouting" (his words). He also said the LDS guys in his old crew "weren't really in to Scouting" anymore. I was wondering what the uptake is in other areas. It se

Ok, I've read the thread. Gotta say I am confused now more than ever. Our LDS leaders here locally are saying their 14 year-olds are "out". They noted that many will stick around and get their Eagle and then drop, and all LDS over-14 units would not recharter. All 11-13 year olds were welcome to stay in their units, and that there was an attempt to get them Eagle "as fast as possible". I took this to mean before they turned 14, but who knows. Are my local LDS friends on the same page with the church? Or are they being cowboys?

In the end, @ItsBrian, the joke will be on that kid. His mom won't stop her meddling behavior. She will be second guessing him on who he dates, how he raises his kids, how he decorates his house and on and on it goes. So while you will grow up a healthy male who has learned a great deal because your parent's didn't micro manage you (though I suspect they prodded you along the way, as most teens need at some point), this guy will end up with his mother breathing down his neck for the next 40 years. Time to thank your parents for doing what they've done. I know you will. And kudos to y

IMHO, preparing the Eagle for the EBOR is the role of the SM during the SMC. Making sure his paperwork is checked and re-checked is the role of the Eagle Coach/Coordinator. Yes, yes, of course it is ALSO the role of the Eagle himself...but the adult checks-and-balance is to prep him and make sure his documentation is clean, aligns with Internet Advancement and complete. Not sure how other units do this, but our unit has done this going on over a decade. Luckily have not had any Scouts that were ill-prepared. We even had one Scout who suffered from anxiety issues. The SM advised him to men

Understood. My brother-in-law is a cop, my sister a dispatcher and my wife a teacher, so I get that rules need to be applied...even rules like this. But a two inch knife, obviously used for emergencies, kept in a car far from use and owned by a kid that is obviously honest and forthright, and to suspend him for 20 days!!!??? Good thing they didn't look for the tire iron, the lug wrench or the baseball bat in his back seat. He might have been expelled. Just like the trooper that pulled our bus over, discretion must be used. He could have tossed our entire bus looking for "violations"

For my money the SPL and the PLC, along with the SM, are responsible for making the meetings interesting. One thing BSA does well is the availability of the Troop Program Resources and Troop Program Features. They have been available in PDF for as long as I can remember, and now they are available online. A good troop should include how to use these tools as part of their TLT; making sure PLs and SPL/ASPLs can leverage these guides easily and properly. Once that's done, planning good meetings should not be a chore. It will never be 100%, but it will be a whole lot better than it was.

Wasn't there an Eagle Scout that had a pocket knife in the flat bed tool box of his pick-up truck who was suspended under a zero-tolerance rule? Edit: Found the story. Silly rule, poorly applied.

You might want to take the chip off your shoulder. Not everyone who posts is trying to persecute you. I made a statement and then explained it further. That's not back peddling. That's answering someone who is overly sensitive and tries to find fault or argument with just about anything. What I wrote was nothing that hasn't been written in here before.

Lone Scouts is it's own program. So obviously one cannot do Boy Scouts and use the Patrol Method as a Lone Scout. I would argue though, Lone Scouts as a program, does not do the Scout as much service as the traditional Scouting program. For my money, while Lone Scouts are a way to boys cut off from units geographically involved in Scouting, it is not the ideal way (or even preferred way) to deliver the Scouting program. The Aims and Methods of Scouting back this up. How can LS's exercise leadership, association with adults and use the patrol method as a single, solitary Scout? There's 3 o

In this case, @Stosh, it was blade length. There were several BSA pocket knife and Swiss Army blade lengths at the time 3", making them illegal in this state.