Col. Flagg

How would one rate "difficulty" at either NT or Philmont? I would suggest the following: Philmont Difficulty Distance (affects body, mind and spirit if too difficult) Elevation (terrain) profile of trek (elevation gained and lost daily) Distance between restocking and watering points (means more weight to carry longer) Altitude (higher up, tougher it can get) Program events (So required physical exertion which takes energy away from the trail) Weather Training NT Difficulty Distance (affects body, mind and spirit if too difficult) Number of portages, distance of portages Type of terrain

Reading the latest from our CSE (Chief Social Engineer ) I am afraid you are not wrong. If anything, it sums up the last 4.5 years wonderfully.

Well, they will need to keep their adult-to-Scout ratio, so more adults would be needed to comply with that. That assumes all leaders are "trained". If not, well, that's another issue altogether.

You missed the part where it was germane to my point in this thread.

That's about how it feels when that CSE speaks. I am not sure which face to look at.

If your school has a JROTC program I would kindly suggest that they do it. They are already aligned with the school and should be equipped to do the ceremony. But I would have no reservations about doing the ceremony. I know it does not seem like it now, but high school is NOT what the real world is like. In 20 years you will not even remember the names of most of the people you know now. You WILL remember having spoken to a mother, who lost her son in battle, thanking you for doing what you did. A Scout is Brave. Who cares what those kids at school think.

It was germane to the point I was making. And it's in I&P, so it's not like we don't bring up other political stuff here, right? Just tool through the I&P area and have a look. Or get rid of I&P altogether.

This is the correct answer. You can have very light treks at Philmont and you can have very easy treks at NT. Likewise, you can have tough treks in both places. I did an NT trek with over 20 portages. Rough!! Both guides have details about their treks, distance, elevation climbs, portages, etc. If you troop is young I would go low distance and maximize fun. I have done the 120 mile treks and I have done the 45 mile treks. I enjoyed both but truth be told I enjoyed the fun and social nature of hanging out and relaxing in the wild.

Recently we got ordered a back-up flag knowing is was screen-printed. We had a seamstress embroider the letters on for only $50 extra (we provided the letters already cut to size).

That's my area. I cannot think of a CO, besides LDS, that has anything to really do with Scouting. They treat most units as renters rather than as extensions of their ministry. We've tried for years to work with our CO to get closer. We're treated like those cousins you tolerate because they're nice, kind and polite -- and always bring that green marshmallow thing to Thanksgiving -- but we're not *really* considered family.

Weeeeell...then our CSE should be a bit less disingenuous when making statements like this: "First thing's first: We did it because our members requested it. For years, they've been asking us to bring our unique approach to character and leadership development to all members of their families." Did members request it? Sure. Did MORE members NOT request it? Absolutely!!! Using this statement is implying that a large number of members "requested" the change. It's disingenuous at best. A bit later he says, "But the policy change isn't as dramatic as many people seem to think. We've ha

I would argue the goal (of passing the swim test for rank) is not to prepare them for real life. No more than cooking, first aid or map.compass requirements for rank are designed to make the boys "experts" in those skills. Once they pass, how often have you found guys never using THOSE skills again (besides during MBs)? I don't disagree that swimming, and other core skills, are life skills they should master. I thought the argument was what is required to pass rank, no?

The rumor I heard was that it would be face-to-face. Nothing on length of training or frequency (e.g., f2f every two years, renew every year).

Good call. Few people know to check the hydrology tables and flow rates to make sure your Class 2 did not become a Class 4-5 river. We had to postpone a similar trip. The flow rate was 3x normal...faster than what an Olympic kayaker would be able to handle.

Depends, @Stosh. I had a large number of kids who never took the swim test at camp simply because they had no intention of hitting the lake.

Very true, @Stosh. But *if* the Scouter's in question take the training (weather training, safe swim, etc.) they *should* know how and when to do things. I nearly left summer camp my first year in Boy Scouts. Myself, another ASM and another dad were the adults (just enough for ratio). The "dad" that was camping with us (not an ASM) was going to let the boys go for a night swim. No safe swim, just get trunks on and go. I stepped in and said we couldn't let them. He overruled me and simply told the guys to go have fun. I told the SPL to get the boys back which he did. When the other ASM (the

How did this thread get so far down this road of "men and manly" without this? 'Nuff said. This is what is meant by manly men.

Living in tornado alley, we have cancelled a few events over the years due to super cells targeting where we were going to be. Glad we did because each time those locations got pummeled. We cancelled a winter trip due to travel conditions on the way to camp. Another time we drove to a designated spot, checked the weather, took a more southerly route and went around the weather. We've moved camp sites to higher ground in anticipation of inclement weather miles away. Glad we did when, in the middle of the night, the water rose 10ft above the creek and swamped what was the normal camping

Wrong discussion. We are talking about passing the swim test for rank advancement, not Lifesaving MB or Swimming MB. If you want to talk about those, then I fully agree mastery of swimming is required. For the rank advancement, the litmus test to pass is MUCH lower. I have seen guys who have passed the test but they are not really "Swimmers". Passing the test is no certification of one's swimming ability. It is a one-time test for rank. We should not equate passing the swim test for rank = being a great swimmer, no more than we should equate passing the cooking requirements to being a gre

I think the effort is laudable, these tracking techniques should be taught to the Scouts and then let them manage it. If they use your technique and tools, great. If not, let it go. Scouts can manage their own advancement using their handbook, keep track of their own blue cards and everything else. Now, if they are not getting proper training, then step in, train them how to track and engage and then step back. If you give Scouts the tools they will either use them or find their own tools. We, as parents, don't need to track everything for them. Hopefully we let them do what they (are

Again, where in the RANK requirements does it say these are prohibited?

According to the latest BSA FB ad, even that may not matter.

But the REQUIREMENTS for the rank do not say anything about aids such as goggles. We don't read every ancillary BSA book for every requirement, do we? If it is not in the requirements, or on the safe swim defense webpage, who is going to go buy yet another BSA book which contradicts 3-4 other sources?? I'm passing any kid who can meet the requirements as written; whether in a lake, pool or water park.

Yup, that was what we continue to hear too. We also hear it from our Venturing females. They don't want to be in Boy Scouts with their brothers. As to helicopter parents, I have a simple solution...

If only national would ever ask the "boots on the ground" how things REALLY work, they might avoid mucking things up as often as they do. Thanks for trying to make something great with the barriers you have before you. Wish you success.