Eagle94-A1

Regarding grades and Scouting, I would be EXTREMELY leery of that. I knew a Scout who had a lot, and I do mean LOT, of issues that affected his school performance: parents' divorce, new home, mom dating again, etc. The home life severely affected his school; going from honor roll to average and/or failing. Scouting was his only "safe space" where he could get away and forget his problems for a while. When Mom  grounded him from Scouts until his grades came back up, it was the final straw for the Scout, and he attempted suicide. Thankfully it was caught in time, and he survived. 

I admit I got mixed emotions on this. One one hand, if outside groups using camps will save the camp, I am all for it. If on the other hand the scouts turn into another public park, where folks can "party" all nite and not respect others as I have seen at a few public campgrounds, I am against it.

I know camps in the UK are open to anyone. They rely heavily on volunteers to run things through out the year.

As other stated, you wear an Eagle knot, either this one https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-scout-award-knot-5011.html  or if you are a NESA Life Memeber this one https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-scout-nesa-award-knot-18092.html  .

The Eagle Rank pin found here https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-scout-rank-pin-93.html  , which is worn in the same position as the patch since it can replace the patch, is for youth only. Most people never see those.

The Eagle Scout Award, aka Eagle Scout Medal, found here https://www.scoutshop.org/eagle-scout-award-135.html , is worn by youth AND adults on formal occasions, i.e. Courts of Honor, District, council, OA banquets, Blue and Gold Banquets, etc.

As far as the Rose Parade,  I would look at footage and see what others have done regarding wearing it, or ask in the interview process.

7 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

I haven't read the law, but given that this alleged interpretation is coming from a piece written by someone who lists no bio with their writing, on a site that lists no identifying information or publisher on its website, I am deeply skeptical that there is much if any credibility here.

Here is the FAQ from the state:

Q: Do the new laws affect how and where hunter education training can occur?

A: No. Possession of firearms, rifles, and shotguns is lawful for hunter education training in “sensitive locations” including schools, camps, fish and game clubs, and public libraries. As was the case prior to the recent law changes, possession of firearms and live-fire exercises associated with hunter education training may only be conducted with permission from the property owner prior to the training.

I think if every camp in NY State had just lost the ability to run shooting sports we woud have heard about it.

I do not remember all the details, but 20+ years ago I met a DE who worked in New York State. He was the program director for that council's summer camp, which straddled hte NY-NJ state line. He told me that because of NY's firearms laws, the camp moved the shooting sports area to the NJ section of the camp.

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

For context:

* The Aspen Institute’s study showed that parents with a child in ice hockey spent on average $2,583 per year in 2019. 

* After the gear comes lessons, lift tickets and the cost of getting to and from the mountain. Skiing and snowboarding costs about $2,250 per child in 2019.

* Gymnastics $1200

* Lacrosse $1200

* Tennis $1200

* Flag Football (lowest at) $270

I know in my neck of the woods, there are a lot of parents that can barely afford flag football, let alone other sports. I know I am in that situation. We did 4-h because it was relatively free. Unless they went to the state envirothon, no costs. 

17 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

A couple things:

1. Claimants are supposed to be signing these forms, which they didn't in thousands of cases. When the judge allowed it with the soft admonition of, "and I better not see a 100 Proofs of Claim signed by one attorney...when I was in practice I never signed a filing for a client," the game was on. Did she see 100 from one attorney? No. Hundreds and thousands.

Can those lawyers lose their licenses?

18 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

2. Had hard core investigations happened after the "under penalty of perjury, $500,000 fine and prison time" didn't deter people, we would be adding another 6+ months to the process. That said, who knows how long it will take in the Settlement phase once Judge Houser starts her review and initial vetting. 

Is that per signature, lawyer, false claimant, or overall.? And could the $500k per fake claim be used to  reimburse real victim and/or cover the extra legal expenses that their false claims caused?

@ALongWalkstated "am at the point of thinking there is no way National survives now. Sure hope that LC’s are discussing some sort of confederations that will allow Scouting to continue.  "

and @InquisitiveScouter stated " We all need to begin thinking about this "What if?"

If you desire to continue supporting Scouting, what will you do if BSA goes Chapter 7?

(Let's make this a new thread, please?)"

Well I am starting a new thread on this WHAT IF.

For me I have no idea. I do not think I could support a local consortium, For several years now, my council has been virtually useless. I do not trust them enough to work with other councils, and be effective. If a merger of council occurred, I still do not know. While I hope and pray BSA survives, my selfish concern is to see my Life Scout sons get Eagle before BSA dissolves

I hate to be a Negative Nelly, but I do not trust my council or national. I am focused on my unit.

All joking aside, I do not think BSA, nor councils, can survive. I looked at the revised plan found Revised plan found at https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/7f73fba1-1980-4766-a6b3-d80e203fd73f_10263.pdf and I got concerns. Especially since I know one council plans to sell properties and reinvest the money into the main property. Yet the doc above says they are suppose to go tot the trust.

12 hours ago, Eagledad said:

National, historically, has a reputation for using data to justify self serving objectives when the opposite trends were closer to reality. Don’t visualize the fine folks at National as professionals working to serve the noble reputation of the Scouting vision. In fact don’t think of them as professional. 

They most certainly do. Anyone see the results of the MEMBERSHIP (emphasis) survey prior to allowing girls into Cub Scout and Boy Scouts? The membership survey's results have never been published to my knowledge. Only the non member survey, and it was favorable.

12 hours ago, Eagledad said:

National likely has some of the data, but aren’t making it easily available because it isn’t to their advantage, both in general operation and public observation. Add that they have been very focused on saving the organization from bankruptcy the last couple of years.

Even before the bankruptcy, the only time they shared the survey data was the 2014/15 Eagle Palm Survey. That was published, with 94%  AGAINST/STONGLY AGAINST (16% Against 78% Strongly Against) "Instapalms." Yet they did it anyway.

12 hours ago, Eagledad said:

National is clumsy with program at the national level, so real program organization will come from the local council. Or not, if you understand what I mean.

National, clumsy.? That is the understatement of the year. As for council and program organization, it really depends upon your council. If you are lucky, you have a good council. Otherwise program is 100% on the units.

7 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Even images? Did they do the photos and diagrams themselves or are they from stock photo with limited rights?

If they have full rights, it is sad to not discount the online access. 

Again volunteers do the photos for BSA, with BSA having the rights.

Someone here mentioned when NCAP first went into effect years ago that NCAP would be a way for councils to get rid of unwanted properties by saying they do not meet standards. I am starting to believe it.  Like @SiouxRanger, I know that the NCAP team in my neck of the woods have certified events and camps that really do not meet the new NCAP requirements. Long story short, several properties are being sold, and one is being retained and improved upon to meet NCAP standards. 

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Never put your name on a survey with BSA.  They are not anonymous, and all responses will be given to your SE and up.  Nothing good can come of it unless you wear several pairs of rose colored glasses and offer lots of money.

Sad but true. Especially the ones that come to your email. They are not anonymous.

Didn't see that pic. I know they have a photosat map of the camp that was anonymously donated. Wondering if the donor will take it back.

Saw this on several friends' FB pages.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8396-Boy-Scout-Rd-Bailey-NC-27807/2061896886_zpid/?

EDITED: only way to tell it was a Boy Scout camp is the name of the road and the lake's name.

@IndyDad

1. Welcome to the forums.

2. In regards to Merit Badge Pamphlets ( MBPs), BSA changes requirements so fast that I no longer recommend them. Seriously one MB had something like 5 requirement changes in a 8 year period. The information that is in the MBP is easily available via other sources: library books, online databases, Youtube videos, etc. I keep current with the requirement changes via www.macscouter.com.

3. good luck as a MBC.

37 minutes ago, FireStone said:

What kind of an adventure trip do you think could be done for less?

Backpacking easily comes to mind. Cheaper to do your own than go to Philmont.

Canoeing too.  I know I did a 64 mile canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness for significantly lower price than going to Sommers HA base.

in 2020, my troop did their own summer camp due to COVID. It was a major undertaking, especially since we had less than 3 months to plan it AND we did not know if the camp would be open or not.

Pros= Cheap, Local, focused, flexible. Cheap as in the cost to camp was about $70/person. Local as in within 30 minute drive and we had committee show up to do BORs. Focused in that the Scouts who needed to do T-2-1 requirements were able to do them that week. Flexible in that we made our own schedule, adapted it to weather conditions, i.e. moving the Wilderness Survival nite to a nite it would not storm, etc.

Cons= no showers, VERY limited MB offerings, and local. No showers were a big turn off to the Scouts the improvised showers we created did not work. The biggest turn off for the older Scouts was the limited number of MBs They only earned one, if they had not already gotten it. and got a bunch of partials. A lot of the Scouts view summer camp as MB school. Local was also a con because it was a camp we always got to. They wanted someplace fresh. But COVID put a major damper on things.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Looks like you can now request the transcript from March 14 hearing.  You need to call:

(302)654-8080

This was the day where that BSA leadership summit was discussed. 

Thank you. I want a copy.

Had several meetings this week about what is going on in Scouting. . Apparently I am spreading rumors since I keep up with the bankruptcy , state what is being told in court (via this site and others), and ask questions that the PTB either do not want to answer, or do not know the answer because they are not informed.

I asked about council mergers since BSA plans to downsize the number. Answer is council mergers wont be happening if goals are met. I asked about why we are investing in a camp, when the merger possibility exists and the camp will get sold. Told again no mergers are going to happen if goals are met. Asked about when the changes to YPT will occur, and was told  I am spreading rumors.

Sad thing is I find out more here and on other sites, than I do from my council.

My understanding is the 72 hour rule, i.e. no registration needed for adults if the activity is under 72 hours, will be going away for Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing.  It will remain for Cub Scouts. 

14 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Recently a National Council of Chiefs and the huge majority of Lodge Chiefs voted down the idea of doing away with elections.  It is up to the Scoutmaster to validate each candidates eligibility.   Everyone is not elected but the choice belongs to the kids since they own the lodge.

You are joking that it came up, right?

1 hour ago, MattR said:

A suggestion: let your son decide whether to move. For one, boy led? Second, it seems that in 4 months you've already made a good impression. "Hey! Fun games are a good idea! Maybe that guy has more good ideas." To be honest, meetings at a summer camp is, well, brilliant.

This is GREAT ADVICE! (emphasis)

Scouts BSA is NOT about what you want, but what the Scouts want. I was involved in a troop, and some new, well intentioned, but untrained, started taking over the troop. They wanted a continuation of Cub Scouts. As my frustration with them and the situation increased, I backed away because IT WAS NOT ABOUT ME BUT MY KIDS (caps for emphasis). As long as my sons were having fun, I was fine.

It was when they started having issues with the new adults, and they were no longer having fun, that the decision to leave was made.

7 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I saw Elangomats having conversations with Candidates while walking to a work site, like they were just on an outing.  I remember having to mime a saw or shovel in order to communicate what tool we needed.  

i have seen worse. I have seen Elangomats talk, eat and drink both in front of candidates and away from candidates, sleep under tarps, and sleep back in camp away from the candidates. I was taught an Elangomat redoes the entire Ordeal.

15 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Our lodge does elections from 1/1-3/31. We just make sure to do them as late as possible, but before the Webelos cross over. So, for us, about 3/1.  

You do realize that Webelos can Cross Over as early as  December? That would be a problem in our area.

I know things happen with staff.  I have been asked teach classes at summer camp. Also some courses ask you to supplement the staff, i.e. BSA Lifeguard. But I have not been to a summer camp that has charged full price for adults. Every camp I have been to or worked at had 2 adults free, and some type of formula for extra adults. And the fee for the extra adults has never been the same price as the Scouts.

As for charging the Scouts extra to cover adult costs, i have families that can barely cover the cost for their Scouts. In fact i have 2 Scouts not go to camp this year, because they could not raise the money within 5 weeks of joining.