Eagle94-A1

I admit, I've not taken the 1990a WB course or the new WB21C one. Back in my time, there was a specific Boy Scout leader WB, designed for adults who had completed training and had 2 years tenure in Scouting as an adult ( 2 years tenure could be waived on a case by case basis, but it was rare.) There was also a Cub Scout Leader WB designed more for CS trainers. Before my time there was an Exploring Leader version of WB.

Having one size fits all training does a great disservice to the Scouts in my opinion. For one thing, because you have different training requirements, when they are enforced, you have adults with different levels of experience and knowledge. I think it would be hard for a Cub Scout leader from an LDS pack which is not allowed to go camping, to have an understanding of Boy Scout patrol camping. Terminology gets watered down or changed into something that can make it intimidating or confusing for some, i.e. Course Director = SM, Also because all three programs, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, and Venturing, need to be incorporated, real life, applicable situations are shortened. Instead of an entire week as a Boy Scout, Cub Scout, etc, you only get a few days to get ti together.

Again you needed to have completed basic training and have tenure unless waived. First course I was approached to attend would have waived the tenure requirement because a) I had 20+ months in as an adult and b) I was staffing JLT. That tenure allowed  me to grow and get mentored in my role as an adult. Yes I was "trained" taking the old Scoutmaster Fundamental's course as an 18 year old ASM, but the tenure allowed my fellow adults to mold and counsel me when I reverted back to Scout mode, specifically SPL. I needed experience as an adult.

Which is why i like the tenure rule when it was around.

This may sound cold-hearted, but I would make him work for stuff. I would look for more fundraisers to do, and make sure he works them, and if parents can help, his mom as well. Don't let the lack of equipment stop him, but don't give him anything, let him do things to earn it.

I say that because i was in that situation after my father walked out. My troop did 1 fundraiser a year, and I helped all weekend, and my mom helped as she could too.  When I went to Canada and jamboree, I worked every fundraiser I could. There were some that only the adults could work, and mom worked every single one of them. And I was given lawn mowing jobs by the SM. I really appreciated what I had.

Good luck

I'm quoting the 9th Doctor, "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

If SPL hates the troop, that's a major problem. Unless he is trying to change the troop around, he needs to leave. And even then he needs the adults support, otherwise they will do as they are doing.

My troop is not as bad, but we have issues of adults running things when they shouldn't be. My son is not 100% happy and wants to change things. Luckily there is some support for that. But if things do no change, he is transferring.

Regarding AOL and Scout and Tenderfoot Rank. At one time a Cub Scout who earned AOL could automatically get Scout, and his time requirements for Tenderfoot was waived. That was noted in the BSHB of the time, and I was one of those new Scouts who had it applied.

Regarding the Scout Requirements:

#1. Should be easy as it is an AOL requirement.

#2 Tedious but doable

# 3 should be easy, but may vary from troop to troop since some have NSPs and others do not.

#4 These are Cub Scout requirements for the lower ranks

#5 is Whittling Chip, a Bear requirement.

Regarding Tenderfoot requirements:

#1 and #2 are easy if you are a hiking and camping troop. AND Let the PLs sign off; TG if using NSP

#3a-c Again Cub Scout requirements revisited

D Totin Chip. I'm cool with it.

more later

Thanks Jason, I stand corrected.   Many moons ago, we Webs were still considered cubs.  

 If they are in a Pack, they are still Cubs.

Does anybody have an old edition of the Handbook handy? I believe all the MB requirements were in the book. Last night I looked at the oldest one I had handy, the 1959 edition, but they weren't in there, so it would probably have to be at least one edition before that. Or a Requirements book would help. I also looked on the Internet and found a site that had requirements for a few merit badges from 1911, but I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. What would be useful would be to compare the requirements for Canoeing MB from sometime in the 40's through the 60's, to the requirements of today.

 

I have a feeling I know what you will find, and an opinion as to why, but it's probably better to get the actual answer first.

If memory serves, only the 1972 edition of the BSHB has all the requirements. The way national changes requirements, think Cooking which changed twice in 3 years, I think the separate requirement book is a goo idea for the most part. Better would be to not change the requirements as often.

My major negative is the amount of data that the app has access to. It has access to EVERYTHING just about.

I know some of the specialty outdoor organizations came up with their versions of WFA, But the Red Cross got a foundation for their course from a local chapter in the mountains of NC and the BSA. The standard 16 hour WFA was pretty much standardized by the BSA. National was the ones that got the experts together to come up with the course.

Interesting thing to me is this: the bulk of what was covered in my WFA class was stuff I learned in First Aid MB back in the day.

I have concerns.

http://wtvr.com/2016/07/11/what-you-need-to-know-about-your-privacy-and-pokemon-go/

Don't know if it started as an Eagle project or not,  but there is a troop that has taken responsibility for a local "park" next to a branch library. The "park" is rather small, about the size of a house lot, but it is well maintained and has benches and table in it. Also a sign stating it's maintained by the troop across the street.

Does anyone remember the time, when all you needed to go camping as fill out the form, and your First Class and above Scouts had First Aid Merit Badge, so you didn't need to worry about having folks with first aid certs?  I do, and I miss it.

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate for training. But I do wish the certs with expiration dates lasted longer than 2 years. And I wish that those certs that have prerequisite certs, i.e the Aquatics Supervision certifications (3 year certs) require Safe Swim and Safety Afloat (2 year certs), would automatically renew and extend to the higher certification's expiration date.

If you got an active unit, or involved in multiple units, it is extremely challenging to attend training, heck even schedule it. I'm now a WFA instructor, have been asked to conduct a WFA training, and I have no idea when I can do it before the end of the year. Between the pack, troop, and district, I can barely balance Scouting activities.

Sometimes folks will get waivers.

I know of one instance, the person served in multiple roles. 1 role he completed all required training and BALOO. One role was missing ITOLS, and a 3rd was the online training. he got  in under his CS role.

A few questions for you.

1) What does your son want to do?

2) Where are his friends at: the Webelos I den or Webelos II den.

3) IS HE READY FOR BOY SCOUTS IN 6-9 MONTHS?!?!?!?!?! (caps for emphasis)

My middle son was in a similar situation last year. Originally he decided to skip Webelos I and go straight into Web II since he would have been eligible to Crossover in May. He eventually decided he wanted to remain with his friends, and will be Crossing Over in December with his den.

I want to emphasize the last question because it is VITAL.  We had 4 Scouts from 3 different packs cross over early. 1 Scout had no issues as that pack begins the Webelos to Scout transition as soon as they become Webelos in June between 3rd and 4th grades. They also have a year round program. 1 Scout had some initial issues as that pack really incorporates the Patrol Method after December of 4th Grade Year.

The issue was the last two. Their pack did NOT begin the transition process until the Scouts actually crossed over. They were very ill prepared for Boy Scouts, and held back their patrol to the point that the patrol was abolished and the patrols were rearranged after them being in the troop a year. They are FINALLY getting their act together.

One of the challenges in the unit is that the CC/COR does things his way, and that has led to some things I do not like or approve regarding BORs. And it's permeated downward to other committee members. Apparently the troop has done multiple Scouts in one BOR for a long time, and everyone on the committee wants to keep it that way "to save time, otherwise we will be here all night." Trying to do the BOR by the book was another "challenge" I had with Gunship last month.

I've been to 1 camp where if the Scout brought the book AND was able to do the skill, the director would sign the book. Director was a crusty retired Marine, who was firm, but fair.

This incident was one of the reasons Gunship and I had a "discussion" mentioned in the other thread. While I do not think the Scout deserves the rank, the BOR passed him off, and it is a done deal that we can do nothing about. We cannot withhold it from him, revoke it, etc as some would like.  Worse part is that he is now gone, and there is nothing we can do to get him up to speed.

So your options, I'm afraid, are either to go along to get along, or to move along to another troop.  Fightin' adult wars in a unit does nothin' but harm kids with collateral damage no matter who is "right".   If yeh can't sit back and accept da call, don't storm out and yell at the umpire.  Go find a different game.

 

As others have mentioned, the unit belongs to the charter organization. The COR is the liaison between the IH as head of the CO, and the troop. So the only person who can remove the COR/CC is the IH. Better have good reasons to do so and have a convincing  discussion.

From personal experience, IHs are reluctant to remove unit leaders unless forced to, i.e. Youth Protection reasons.

If a concerned parent or ASM wishes to engage council or district regarding the Chartered Organization Rep and Committee Chair who do they go to ? 

Unit commissioners may be able to help, but the professionals will say "It's a unit matter and it needs to be discussed with the (IH)." When I was a DE, we had some folks asking me to remove a CM. Long story short, this CM drove people away, both youth and adults. One of the parents/leaders asked for my assistance in the matter, and I was told to tell them the quote above, changing IH to COR/CC/IH. Eventually the COR/CC/IH was approached, knew exactly what was going on, knew the troop was suffering because of the pack's retention, and was unwilling to remove the CM!

Why wasn't this caught at the Scoutmaster's Conference?

I agree, SM should have caught it prior to the SM's conference. So some responsibility is on him,as well as the rest of us who signed off in his book.

 How does one get all the way to FC without someone noticing that mom is still in Cub Scout mode? 

Easy. Because of family situation, Scout is at meetings and outings 1/2 the time. And instead of going to summer camp with the troop, he went provisional. He did First Year camper at a different camp than the one we went to. The SM thought the FYC director was the signatory, when he was reminded that one of the ASMs signed off on what was done at camp based upon the paperwork sent from the camp.

Not the kid's fault!

Yes, the adults do bear responsibility for this fiasco. But I do blame the Scout for some of this. He was told several times that parents do not sign off. And when asked, he deliberately lied about it when asked. It was only when he was asked if his mom signed the book that he admitted she did.

An aside, I honestly believe the Scouts would have caught this if THEY (emphasis) had the ability to sign off in my troop.

^{We had a situation recently where we had a Scout pass his Second Class and First Class ranks in 1 BOR. After the fact, we discovered that Mom was signing off on the requirements, and parents that attended the orientation meeting, which she did not, were told that the Scouts are no longer Cubs. We also told the Scouts on several occasions that parents could no longer sign off. Again after the BOR, when the adult in charge of the records went to update the troop's records book, one signature didn't seem right. We asked the Scout 2 times who signed it off and he "can't remember." When it was recognized as his mom's, we asked him a 3rd time if mom signed off, and he said yes.}

^{Unfortunately we could not revoke his Second Class and First Class ranks. And we didn't have time to work with him to get the skills up to par since he missed meetings between that night and when he moved. I feel for the troop he will be transferring to.}

The 2 other adults and I ate most of our meals outside the dinning hall as the table we got could only fit the 15 scouts and 2 staffers, BARELY.  It was not planned, but it was nice.

Hi, my name is Eagle94-A1, it's been 1 day since I was at camp, I'm going back tonite ( pesky job got in the way) and I'm a camping addict.

WHAT A WEEK!

Camp didn't offer either Aquatics Supervision class. Talking to the AD, he said go ahead and take the BSA Lifeguard class, and whatever I did that transfers over to Aquatic Supervision Swimming before I leave, he'd sign off on. WWWWWEEEEELLLLL, with the horrible stormy forecast we had, BSA Lifeguard class started Sunday, not Monday. Spent every daylight hour the pool was regularly open either in the pool or on the waterfront going over skills and rescues. Nights was spent in the classroom. Since I was leaving early, I spent time guarding during mile swim practice to get my guarding hours in. I'm now recertified as a BSA Lifeguard after 20 years.

While I didn't have the fun of doing blacksmithing, rifle shooting, shotgun shooting, Nap On Safely, and other SM activities, I proved that this out of shape, slow, old fogey still has what it takes.1:12 for the weight retrieval and did the 25 yard sprint in 25 second (Barely making it, but making it nonetheless). Exhausted is an understatement, and surprisingly the should is doing OK. A little sore, but no major pain.

Going to pick up some pineapples to share with my fellow lifeguard candidates and instructors on the way back to camp to celebrate.  

It's also what some Scouts want too. One of my Scouts is taking all Eagle required MBs except one. He has enough electives to get Life and Eagle, taking a bunch of fun ones in the past. The one fun MB he's taking is one that has an age restriction at this camp, and was not offered at the camp we went to last year.

Well that Scout had a reality check after the first class with one of his Eagle required MBs he was told the amount of extra work that would need to be done at night during his free time and said no. Switched to a non-Eagle required MB that he was intersted in, and is spending as much free time as possible with the blacksmith working on Metalworking MB and learning about blacksmithing. He's having a blast, figuratively and literally.

"First class/first year (FC/FY)" was an emphasis program of the BSA 10-15 years ago...not sure if it still is.  The theory was that most scouts drop out before they make First Class, so if we got that patch on their shirts as quick as we could, they would be locked in.  Not sure if that was the case or not.  My advice with a new troop is to get them to Summer Camp and enrolled in the first year camper program, where they will work on T-2-1 advancements.  Let the fire ignite naturally, and not on a set schedule.

OPERATION FIRST CLASS, which morphed into FIRST CLASS/FIRST YEAR became the suggested policy on August 1st 1989, when they took away the time requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks. They also did a lot of other things too when national revised the Scouting program that year, i.e. youth could no longer sit on BORs,  Skill Awards were gone, Leadership Corps became the venture crew which is now called a venture patrol, etc.

Yes, the argument for pushing a Scout to get First Class in a a year is retention. stats do show that. but What I mentioned at the time, and still do, is that the stats do not take into account a lot of other factors. The biggest factor is having an active "hiking and camping" troop. BP said it best, "Advancement happens as naturally as a suntan, it's something that just happens in the outdoors."

Probably. As a former camp staffer (5 years summer camp and 8 years Cub Scout day camp) I'm a program freak and this will be a VERY hard course to take and practice.