Eagle94-A1

Hi, My name is Eagle94-a1, it's been two years since I last went to summer camp, and I'm a camping addict.

And I will shortly be off to summer camp. 

Mixed emotions on it. On one hand, it's kinda of a homecoming as I worked on the camp staff for 2 years. But that was 17 years ago, and the camp has changed, a lot. Some of the changes I have concerns about.

Plus being a former staffer, I am a program freak and do not know if I will be able to Nap On Safely.   When I went to a neighboring camp 2 years ago, I was in class all day getting the Aquatics Supervision classes.  I got two books packed, and I may pack a 3rd to be safe. But I have a bad feeling that I will be itching to do something.

Unfortunately I need to come home Wednesday night for work purposes, so I'll type then.

Please tell me this is a bad joke!

EDITED: WOW!  I looked up the FAQs and #24

24.Do YMCA lock-ins to work on swimming requirements, lock-ins at indoor climbing facilities, etc. count as short-term camping for JTE purposes?

Yes, these activities do count as long as they’re troop outings.

On a positive spin, I can now say my troop does 11 short-term campouts a year.

Good Luck!

My son earned Law merit badge over 3 or 4 nights at summer camp. The counselor was a local attorney who came up to the camp after work and worked with the kids on the badge. I suspect the nighttime Journalism MB sessions at your camp were for a similar reason.

Actually the reason for the night time class was to get a feel for actual newspaper work with printing deadlines. During the day, the Scouts were suppose to take photos and chase after news stories. Nighttime was when they met, decided on the best stories and photos, edited them, and printed the camp "newspaper" (ok it was actually a single page back and front handout, but it looked great) in time for handing out at breakfast each morning. Photos would also be used for the closing campfire each week, and for camp promo videos.

I agree. Summer camp should be about fun, not school. But the parents don't agree. The worse comment I got from a scouter about summer camp was that their camp wasn't a merit badge mill, most scouts only earned six merit badges during the week. Six?! The idiot clearly didn't know what "merit badge mill" meant.

It's also what some Scouts want too. One of my Scouts is taking all Eagle required MBs except one. He has enough electives to get Life and Eagle, taking a bunch of fun ones in the past. The one fun MB he's taking is one that has an age restriction at this camp, and was not offered at the camp we went to last year.

I hope that my son doesn't feel pressured to take only Eagle required next year since he is in a similar situation. If he completes the partials from last year (meeting with the MBC for two is a pain due to his work schedule), and completes everything he starts this summer, he will only need to do Eagle required MBs. Sad thing is I've suggested doing some fun things for next year and 2018, and he's not interested. Hope that changes.

My 11 year old still wears a youth M! That was another reason I decided to pass this time around. 

My troop growing up made our own. We had a one color silk screen with the troop logo. PLC would pick the color for the upcoming year and they and the adults would buy the shirts and silk screen them in time for the Christmas party/ COH. Every year was a different color t shirt. We recommended to the younger Scouts to get them big so they could still wear it as they get older. As an young ASM, I still wore my T-shirt from when I was 12.

When I ran day camp, we got a screen, frame, and ink donated from a local shop. I bought the shirts from an outlet store for about $1.25 to $2.00 depending upon size. I had the Cubs make their own. It was fun, but cleaning the screen was a pain.

the way you describe it certainly makes it sound a bit tedious! The High Adventure camps sound more fun though.

 

As a troop we typically schedule some time where we run a selection of activity badges for the scouts that's typically half a day of the week. I think we're farely typical. We also try o have a day or two off site somewhere and give the scouts plenty of free time to do their own thing. Last year was particularly good in that respect. They spent a lot of time getting to know a group of scouts from a particularly tough bit of East London. Bit of an eye opener for my quite sheltered middle class lot.

I don't know when summer camps over here started doing MB classes, but it was happening in the 1980s. I remember we had 5 class periods, 6 it you included Astronomy at night, and 4th and 5th were open swimming, boating, and shooting sports. 

Astronomy comes to mind.

 

Pardon me if we are talking apples and oranges but isn't scheduling in advance a good thing? So we don't have 40 scouts attempting swimming MB at 10AM and 7 scouts at 9AM. 40 scouts going for Canoeing MB but only 10 canoes? Overcrowding/understaffing/underutilization is certainly a factor that leads to poor MB experiences.

I understand completely on the MB classes, and am all for it. But I'm not talking about Astronomy or Journalism (saw that at 1 camp I worked at) or any MB at night. I'm talking about night time programs. With the exception of Opening and Closing Campfires and the OA Powwow, there is no campwide program. You got to register for free time events like swimming, rifle shooting, archery, field games, etc.

Can't you go to one of these camps and simply self program?

BSA summer camps are completely different than UK camps. Instead of a camp offering a la carte programs that the entire troop can do, or not do,  BSA camps offers individual Scouts classes or a specific program. I got 15 Scouts to summer camp, and each one has a different schedule.  Some camps offer high adventure programs, some comparable to DofE trips.

And apparently some camps are even scheduling night time classes and activities that you have to register for in advance.

EDITED: An aside, our venture patrol is doing the AT, with the exception of the specific portion of the AT they are doing, trip adviser wanted to do a section he not only knew well, but would be good for beginner backpackers, they are completely planning the program. And the cost is less than the local council's HA base. Waiting to see the food bill though

Yep, State came in and said the pit latrines are not sanitary, and the camp needed a septic tank and flush bathrooms.

Does it have to be Whitewater? Could jet skis, among other programs, work?

http://www.pamlicoseabase.com/

two of us had ours on our SC trip last week.

Mine spent time in my day pack, and also in my unlocked footlocker.  Toward the end of camp once it was clear that I really didn't need it any longer I put it in my truck.

I was not worried one bit about leaving my pack on an empty dining hall table while eating, or in the footlocker while I was out and about.  It was a boy scout camp after all....  and if you can't trust a  boy scout....

Unfortunately not every person at scout camp is a true scout. One of my Scouts had his patch collection stolen at jamboree, which was a big deal. A friend of mine had some swimming goggles stolen, and I almost had my walking staff stolen. I was lucky, I saw the "scout" taking off with my staff across the field and was able to stop him.

I have not been active with my lodge for a while. Dues are $12/year. There is a payment card that you pay a one time fee, and it covers the 3 Ordeals, Fellowship, and I believe also the banquet, but don't quote me on the banquet.  Anyway, if you bought the card, if you missed 1 event, you still saved money. Unfortunately that came after I stepped down as chapter adviser.

Dining halls are destroying our camps. An expensive totally useless addition all so the boys can fit in one more MB and have someone else do for a Scout what he can do for himself.

 

And dining halls are indoors.

 

A house has plumbing problems, not a camp. All a camp needs is 1 single source of potable water, distribution can be handled by a truck pulling a 250 gal tank to each campsite a once a day. Oh, I get it, the Dining Hall had plumbing problems.

Agree with dining halls allowing more time for 1 more MB.  I hate the fact that camps are turning into MB factories. We are going to a camp that I haven't been to in 17 years, and it's a MB factory. It's over organized IMHO, with even requiring registration for the night time activities.

However I must respectfully disagree with plumbing and camps. Unfortunately a lot of states are requiring plumbing at camps. Still, I'd rather use slit trench and pioneering "chair" instead of some facilities as they are horrible.

Love it!

My concerns is that we are losing our core focus: the outdoors. Now more than ever, kids need the outdoors.

@@TAHAWK,

I'm referring to Bemidji Woolen Mills. Their jac shirts have hand pockets.

My former District Commissioner has one of the Red Voyagers. IT IS SWEET! They also make an OD one. Nice thing about these is that they have hand pockets.

If you are looking for a nice non-BSA jac shirt, Bemidji Woolen Mills. I've seen one, and wish I could afford it.

http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/details.php?itemid=bm07_97&im=bm07_100.jpg

http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/details.php?itemid=bm07_110&im=bm07_112.jpg

http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/details.php?itemid=bm07_101&im=bm07_103.jpg

Interesting timing since I just attended a presentation on this topic last night by both a Orthopedist (he consulted on my case a few months back), and  DPT. While I'm not a doctor, from last nite's presentation I would NOT send him to camp.

BUT I would second what Qwazse suggested: talk to an Orthopedist, or even a PT and get their advice. Trust me, you do NOT want your son to push it.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and yes I'm shouting at ya!   )

Seriously though, I did not go to summer camp my first year. I didn't find out about it until about a month before camp and couldn't' come up with the money. My peers who went had such a huge advantage on me when they came back, not only rank wise, but also acceptance-wise with the troop, That I eventually became discouraged and quit. Only by being reminded of some cousins' troop did I get back in.

Yah, yeh know yeh need to resolve this, right?    Preferably by becomin' Scoutmaster.

Resolving this is a challenge as Gunship, for all practical purposes refuses to talk to me now. I've tried, heck I see where he is coming from and understand his thoughts. BUT IT AINT SCOUTING (emphasis). And when I came up with ways to do what he wants IN A SCOUTING MANNER ( again emphasis) he told me he can't take it anymore, and walked away. Since that incident. he has said maybe 10 words to me.

As for becoming SM, several months ago, while I had my wing clipped   , I talked to the ASM who at one time was suppose to take over the troop, and the SM. Neither one had a problem with me becoming SM. It was when I talked to the CC/COR that it was brought to my attention that the CO wants a member as SM. They view the troop as an outreach ministry, and I understand. The CO has been extremely supportive of the troop. But even the CC/COR is hesitant to remove the SM. They have a long history together.

@@desertrat77 said it in another thread on TGs in a mixed aged patrol thread:

"Saw this dynamic in the military--squadrons with two first sergeants had more issues than those with one.   Best to just let one go-getter take on the extra duties than have the confusion and overlap of having two."

And that seems to be the problem, Gunship and I. SM isn't doing everything he's suppose to, and both of use, as well as others, are picking up the slack. Problem is we both have two opposed methods to achieving the  same objective. And the other leaders are in the crossfire.

Back in the dark ages before NSPs and Troop Guides, the PL was responsible for getting his people up to speed. In my troop, the PL assigned someone to buddy with and learning was one-on-one. PL was the one to look out for his guys.

Then in  August 1989, NSPs came out and TGs. IMHO they combined the duties of a SPL and an Instructor so that the brand new, inexperienced, just crossed over to Boy Scouts PL would have someone to work with 24/7.

I gotta agree with Stosh, if they are mixed aged patrols, there is no need for a guide. PL can handle it.

 It seems like nobody in your troop is trained - adults or scouts.  

That's the irony of the situation. You have 2 former district training chairs, me and the SM. Plus I did BA 22 and staffed JLT, so I know what is supposed to be done. Hence the balancing act. I'm trying to guide an mentor the Scouts without stepping on the toes of the SM. But I'm also trying to not tell the SPL what to do and how to do it, but give him advice and suggestions.

As for the SPL, he did ILST. Me personally I do not think it's goo training.

... refuse to train the Scouts, or refuse to let the Scouts lead, you don;lt get Boy Scouting.

In my humble opinion, that's the problem. We give them the training, but then do not follow through with mentoring and advising. Then when things go wrong, the adults say the Scouts aren't ready to lead, and take the experience away.

And again, I haven't been to the last two leaders meeting since they came about last minute. However when the results of those meetings came about, I went full bore on the patrol method. Resistance is coming from one leader who is trained, and he is influencing some of the others.

On a positive note, Son is getting his job done. I commented on how to implement real change, he needs to be SPL again. I think he is considering it.

Hopefully I will be cleared to go to summer camp for the first 3 days. I remember in BA22 the model PLC meeting with the whole troop in attendance as observers. I'm really thinking of doing that on Sunday between check in and Sunday dinner.

Well the entire situation at the moment is so frustrating, I believe it is now causing the health issues I'm having. I could be wrong on that, and will await the results of the tests when they come in.

SPL has been in charge for a month, but the closest to anyone helping him is me suggesting things to do. No PLC has been conducted, and he has not planned a meeting yet. Adults have done it. And I admit I'm just as guilty as I suggested to the SPL a topic and choices of Scouts to do it. Then I had to help that Scout out a bit. Prior to that it was the SM lecturing, and last week's meeting was essentially the venture patrol's topic, but done with the entire troop. SPL didn't have any plans for tomorrow made until my son, the troop QM asked if he could have the two regular patrols inventory their patrol boxes since there are no records of who has what.

Again, I don't want to step on toes, and I do not want to tell the SPL what to do and how to do it. But this is driving me nuts.