Hedgehog

Tahawk~ Your post is going to cost me a lot of money. I had to click on the link to the SOG website - I've fallen in love with the Forge knife as well as the Seal Strike and Bowie 2. I think the most dangerous knives out there are the non-locking (usually multitool) folders. Most parents think that should be the knife that a scout carries. First off, the non-locking blade represents a danger of cloing on the scout's fingers. Also, most of the blades are not that sharp -- parents are usually surprised to hear that a dull blade is more dangerous than a sharp blade. Finally, they are heavy because of all the useless multitools. I let parents know that one of the main reasons I'm involved with scouting is because I get to play with knives and fire. I typically carry a OKC RAT folding knife or a Gerber Paraframe if I'm backpacking (lighter weight). I also have an OKC Ranger 7 inch fixed blade sheath bushcraft knife (thinking about getting a Becker BK9 for my son). I've taught most of the scouts how to use a bushcraft knife as a hatchet and to baton wood , how to use a smaller knife to make wood shavings or a fire stick. The best is when you see those scouts teaching others. What could be more fun than using knives to cut wood to make a fire? As I'm reading this thread, I keep comming back to the idea that I have seen repeated again and again on these boards: Train Them and Trust Them. In areas of safety, that applies to leaders and scouts.

The little blue tablets we use for sanitizing are Steramine Tablets. A bottle of 150 costs around $10 on Amazon. It's been two years since I bought a bottle and it is still 1/2 full. Just drop one tablet into a basin and pour cold water over it. You might have to crush the tablet with a fork or start with a little hot water to get it to completely dissolve. No liquid to be spilled in the patrol boxes, no scouts adding half the bottle of bleach to the water and no bleach stains on scout's clothing. Patrol boxes have biodegradable natural detergent repackaged in a small squirt bottle with a flip lock lid (the type you get at any outdoor store) and a small plastic container with around 10 steramine tablets. Instead of oil for Dutch Ovens, we use Crisco. No mess in the boxes. The three areas my guys need to improve on are: 1) scraping / wiping plates and cookwear before washing; 2) paper towel usage; and 3) straining wash water before disposal. For the scraping / wiping, I was thinking of putting the garbage can at the beginning of the wash line thus adding a 4th step (scrape, wash, rinse and sanitize). For the paper towel usage, we've started packing cotton dish towels and that has helped somewhat (as long as someone remembers to bring them home and wash them). I've been looking around for a good strainer that is portable, but haven't found anything. Any suggestions on these issues?

Oh no... I didn't mean to create a controversy! On the swim test, that comment was raised in the context of using two person canoes on lake and in the context of new cross overs not being able to go at all because they hadn't passed the swim test last summer at camp. Our solution was to require parents to accompany the new scouts (some of whom were better swimmers than the adults) rather than telling them they can't go period. Sorry for the confusion on that. I agree that Troops can set their own saftey rules in excess of G2SS, but too often adults go with rules they think are mandated by BSA because that is what their troop followed 20 years ago or what someone told them during training. Ultimately, the best approach is to understand what the BSA limits are and then make a reasoned decision of any further restrictions that are necessary.

1) Do you use Dutch ovens? Who doesn't? 2) Wood or charcoal? Mostly charcoal, but will use wood embers if we have a fire going. On a winter campout, we once put it in a pot bellied stove. 3) Troop cook or patrol cook? Patrol cooking. The Troop has two dutch ovens and between the SM / ASMs we have at least another 6 4) Size(s) used? 12 inch and 12 inch deep. 5) Uses: stove top style (Stews, soups, oatmeals) or Oven (breads, pies, cobblers, casseroles, pot roast, etc.) Pasta (1 pound pasta, 1 jar sauce, 1 jar water, 30 minutes), chili, meatballs, short ribs, spare ribs, stews, corn bread, dump cakes, cheese cake, chocolate layer cakes, cobblers, apple pies, brownies, monkey bread, coffee cake and lots more. 6) Do you own an aluminum Dutch oven? Isn't that a contradiction? 7) Do you use DO's on activities other than plop camping? We also use them for the cooking merit badge class (we had 6 going at once) and the boys use them for patrol meetings when they are doing cooking related activiteis. 8) Aluminum foil liners or clean as you go? It depends. For pasta and baking we use paper liners. We've also used oven roaster bags for liners. For stews and other things that need to be stirred, we don't use liners because they tear. 9) Oil or wax? Crisco. It doesn't go rancid like oil, it is easy to use, can't spill and comes in small and large cans. What more could you want? 10) Troop use any other cast iron other than the Dutch Oven? The boys use cast iron skillets to make pancakes (smooth side) and bacon (ridged side). I also have a double pie iron (lots of fun at campfires with some pie dough and filling or bread and jelly) and a waffle iron. 11) Feet or not? Feet. 12) Accessories? Lid lifter, lid stand, Lodge gloves, trivets (for next two items), pie plates (how else do you make an apple pie?), cake pans (double chocolate layer cake), muffin pan (blueberry muffins) and square pan (brownies and coffee cake) 13) Lodge (USA) or not? Lodge (USA). 14) Cleaning Hot water, scrubby sponge but no soap. If it is real bad, throw it on the grill for 10 minutes and scrape clean. Wax paper and Crisco to finish it off.

Good suggestions by Mozartbrau and Stosh -- some of which i'm going to borrow! We do a set price for food - $3 for breakfast, $3 for lunch and $5 for dinner (including dessert). A typical campout is a Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner and a Breakfast so the per person food allowance is $14. For a patrol of 8, that is $112. This is one area our troop needs to move more toward being completely boy-led. One of the newer scouts typically volunteers to do the cooking for his patrol so that he can fulfill the T-1st cooking requirements. They come up with a menu and shopping list and show it to me for review. I make suggestions based on experience - "plan for two eggs per scout"; "you don't need four gallons of milk even if you are making a dump cake"; "one bag of marshmallows should be enough"; "you might want to get a vegetable to go along with dinner"; "strip steaks are probably too expensive"oh wait, that was me shopping for the adult patrol -- they weren't too expensive). I'm hoping to have a Grubmaster for each patrol next year (some of the boys who have earned the cooking merit badge with me) and have them be in charge of working with the new scouts on menu planning. The limited budget and pre-shopping planning typically doesn't leave a lot of leftovers. What is left over goes into a clear plastic tub that resides in my basement (our CO doesn't allow food in our storage space). I let the boys who are planning the menu know what we have in the tub - typically pancake mix, syrup, hot chocolate, marshmallows, unopened peanut butter, unopened jelly, ketchup, mustard, etc. so that they can be thrifty. Anything that is perishable goes home with the boy who did the shopping or one of the leaders for their consumption. if it need to be refridgerated and won't go bad (maple syrup, cans of biscuits, mayonaise, etc.) it goes in my fridge and comes to the next campout.

I've fournd that good reference skills are invaluable when it comes to taking the BS out of the BSA. It's amazing what you hear - "the boys can't take a hke around summer camp without two adults"; "sheath knives are banned in the BSA"; "alcohol stoves are against GSS"; "SM's need to sign off on all requirements"; "you need to pass the swim test to go on a canoing trip" -- the list of myths goes on and on. And for the record, hedgehogs and beavers look very different.

The answer is in the Guide to Advancement (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf) ​4.2.1.2 The Scout Is Tested The unit leader authorizes those who may test and pass the Scout on rank requirements. They might include his patrol leader, senior patrol leader, an assistant unit leader, another Scout, or the unit leader. Merit badge counselors teach and test him on requirements for merit badges. Once a Scout has been tested and signed off by someone approved to do so, the requirement has been met. The unit leader is accountable for ensuring proper advancement procedures are followed. A part of this responsibility includes the careful selection and training of those who approve advancement. If a unit leader believes a boy has not learned the subject matter for a requirement, he or she should see that opportunities are made available for the Scout to practice or teach the requirement, so in this way he may complete his learning and further develop his skills. In our Troop, any scout above First Class can sign off on the First Class requirements but we encourage the sign off to be done by the Troop Guides, Patrol Leaders or Assistant Patrol Leaders.

I have to disagree. The boys in our troop are great. Just watching them over the past couple of weeks take care of the Webelos that joined our troop is awesome. All of the guys address me as Mr. Hedgehog. Not withstanding that formality, they actually talk to me about issues they have in scouting, concerns about the guys in their patrol, how they are doing in their POR, Monte Python, ways to build fires, how to sharpen knives, the existence of God, etc. When you backpack and hike with guys for hours, that's what you do -- talk. I've known a bunch of them since Cub Scouts and know their parents. Anytime I ask them for help, they help - I'm not talking small tasks but stuff like come and teach this Cub Scout Den to build fires, come and help me run a Backpacking Merit Badge Class, etc. I've seen these guys take care of each other on campouts and at summer camp. I'm proud to say that these guys are part of the Troop. Geeky, awkward and a bunch of goofballs? Yes. Brats? No way.

I don't see it as trying to get around anything. The rule is that boys in Cub Scouts, other than Webelos, cannot go on a Den overnight campouts because the BSA will not issue a Tour Permit for insurance reasons. There is no prohibition on the parents taking the sons to a Cub Scout event and then deciding to camp overnight as a family. The rules are being followed in that the overnight is not an official BSA event and the parents are responsible for anything that happens once the official BSA event ends. As long as that is clear to the parents and the park where you are camping, I see no issues. Also, I don't see a problem with wearing BSA uniforms for the Den meeting for the day because it is an official BSA function. Nonetheless, the liklihood of any kid wearing a Class A uniform on a campout is slim -- in my pack about half of them wore Class B T-shirts to Den meetings and I've never saw a Class A on campouts except for the Pack leadership. As for Cub Scout training, I think it is fine for what you need. The hazzards for camping with a parent in a state park at a pad tent site during the summer are not significantly greater than any other activity. For Boy Scouts the basic SM/ASM training is good, but I think it is lacking in basic outdoor skills and first aid. The outdoor skills I have (and teach to the other leaders in my Troop) and the first aid I acquired by getting CPR certified and taking a Wilderness First Aid course. I've also taken pretty much every on-line course for Weather, Safe Trek, Safe Swim, Safe Boat, etc. so that we are covered for any event we do as part of our Troop outdoor program. As for the coolers of beer, that typically is prohibited by the park where you are camping. Nonetheless, in our Pack / Troop the parents are responsible and I've never seen any parent have too much to drink outside of Scouting (no drinking at Scouting functions permitted) where kids are present. If the scouting function ends before dinner and the park permits it, I see no problem having a beer with a burger (but then again, I'm a proponent of modeling responsible drinking in front of children). I agree that having the whole Pack do this would be a great idea, but that is based on my preference for putting more outing in scouting.

Still pending... Three cubbies from a pack to the east, three likey from the pack to the north, one who wasn't in cubbies. Next week is cross over of "our" pack (I'm the former CM) and in a couple of weeks the cross over from the pack to the south. Probably 2 to 3 cubbies from each pack for a total of 12 to 13. That will put the troop at almost 60. Build a boy-led troop with a variety of outdoor adventures and they will come.

I'll have to bring this up to the PLC... My suggestion is one of these: http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/passenger-van I figure it would only take around $150K of popcorn sales to get one nicely equipped.

Copyright law permits for "fair use" and "educational" exceptions. I suspect photocopies of a select number of pages would fall under those exceptions. As for the use and abuse of intellectual property on the internet, the abuse is just evidence of our failure to effectively teach what is ethical and not ethical.

A possible suggestion for a different solution.... work with the new COR representative to revamp the committee. Try to get people with boys currently in the unit on the committee. If your son has aged out, you can stay for a year to provide wisdom to the new members. That way, you get some empathy for the boys - seriously, who is going to be an [insert un-scout like word] about advancement if they and their sons are involved in the troop? Also, the new blood will go through the current training. Finally, if there is a concern about the boy's leadership (agree, the requirement is "responsibility") then there is a problem with the Troop program that the committee needs to address. That is the role of the BOR and the committee -- not to evaluate the scout but to evaluate the quality of the program.

Interesting. As I read the rules, California judges also cannot be part of Girl Scouts either since they invidiously discriminate on the basis of gender by not allowing boys to be members. So that tells me that even if the ban on homosexual leaders is removed, membership in the Boys Scouts is still prohibited because we don't allow girls to be members. However, it is likely that Trail Life USA would not be effected by the ban because it is a religious organization. I guess when you try to make rules designed not to provide impartiality but to make a political statement you get unintended consequences. Maybe the BSA can make "members" only the youth and the adults become approved "volunteers" thereby circumventing the ban on members in the organization.

As others have pointed out, it depends on the badge and the wording of the requirement. I break down merit badges into three groups of requirements: learning, showing and doing. Learning can be done in merit badge classes or by the scout on their own. Learning is acquiring the background knowledge. I have no problems with the boys using the merit badge book or even the on line worksheets to guide their learning. Showing includes actually demonstrating a skill or having a discussion with the merit badge counselor. Showing needs to be done to with the merit badge counselor. Doing needs to be done on outings. Camping, hiking, cooking and backpacking all require activities that need to be done in the outdoors. It doesn't make sense that the merit badge counselor be there for all of those activities. A scout is trustworthy, so if they tell me they did something, I take them at their word. However, I do ask that they tell me about it. Where did you hike, what did you cook, where did you camp and what did you learn doing it? I've been encouraging the boy leaders in our troop to be more cognizant of opportunities to meet advancement and merit badge requirements and to incorporate them into the outings. For example, we have volunteers to do the cooking so that they can satisfy the T-1st cooking requirements, we have one or two scouts in charge of campout planning so that they can satisfy the camping merit badge requirements and we try to plan several backpacking trips so that the boys can log the necessary miles.

If you have the guide to advancement, you understand that the Scoutmaster is wrong there too. The problem for scouting with a Scoutmaster who believes "my way or the highway" is that scouts take the highway. Advancement is one of the methods of scouting... take that away or make it more difficult then the program becomes a little less like scouting. Good luck to you and your son.

Although your son should have followed up on his request with the Scoutmaster in person, I don't think you son has made any real mistakes. He did what he was supposed to do and the Scoutmaster dropped the ball by not calling back (presumably because he didn't want to issue the blue card) and then by imposing his own rules. The Scoutmaster and Committee are wrong. Scoutmasters cannot deny a blue card. The BSA Guide to Advancement provides: 7.0.0.3 The Scout, the Blue Card, and the Unit Leader A few merit badges have certain restrictions, but otherwise a ny registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or qualified Venturer or Sea Scout may work on any of them at any time. Before he begins working with a merit badge counselor, however, he is to have a discussion with his unit leader. That a discussion has been held is indicated by the unit leader’s signature on the Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124, commonly called the “blue card.†Although it is the unit leader’s responsibility to see that at least one merit badge counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. The unit leader and Scout should come to agreement as to who the counselor will be. Lacking agreement, t he Scout must be allow ed to work with the counselor of his choice , so long as the counselor is registered and has been approved by the council advancement committee. *** The discussion a Scout is to have with the unit leader is meant to be a growth-oriented and positive conversation. The unit leader should discuss any concerns related to working on the merit badge and provide appropriate counseling. It is then the Scout’s decision whether or not to proceed with the merit badge. The process is intended to inform the Scout about what he may encounter along the way, and perhaps to give him suggestions on how the work might be approached. It also has the purpose of keeping the unit leader up to date with what the members of the unit are doing. You can find a copy of the Guide to Advancement here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf and the cited sections are on page 45. There is no discretion on the Scoutmaster's part. He has the discussion with the scout and then signs on the blue card. I would recommend giving this information to your son and having him bring it to his scoutmaster asking for reconsideration. That would be the best learning lesson for him -- standing up for himself when he is right.

Speaking of the dead of winter, one of the boys suggested that we do a backpacking trip on skis or snowshoes. The logistics on that one may be too difficult in that most of the boys don't have cross country skis or snowshoes and because we don't have any lightweight 4 season tents. Another boy suggested a downhill skiing trip (will have to check G2SS on that). Although not related to winter, one of the boys wanted to go deep sea fishing. I liked the idea but the rest of the PLC wasn't so excited about it. I've never heard of canyoning. Based on a quick trip to Wikipedia, that sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, there aren't any canyons nearby and the nearest river (the Delaware) is not particularly safe to swim in due to the currents (there are usually several drownings a year -- almost all of which are related to underestimating the river's current and many involve alcohol). I like the idea of finding that swimming hole on the trail and taking a swim (of course following G2SS). It would probably be more fun if the boys just went in with their hiking shorts rather than changing into a bathing suit. One ASM suggested going on a caving trip where we would camp in the caves. He knows several people who are very knowledgable about caving (they actually perform search and rescue in caves). Let's just say that I'm more of an elf than a dwarf.

This is great. A lot of ideas here I can bring to the PLC and they can build on. The search and rescue idea is one I remember talking to a couple of the younger scouts in our Troop about. They thought it would be a good idea to do that as a patrol competition -- see who finds the lost scout the quickest. One of our ASMs is really into cycling, so the camp and bike idea would be great. I think a couple of day bike trip would be great. We would probably need a support vehicle for gear for that. Also, camping and then having a Saturday bike trip would be fun too. Ken -- those are all great ideas. Last summer we passed by a couple of waterfalls and springs while hiking. One of the other ASMs and I both thought it would be fun just to hike to one of those spots and let the boys just play in the water and hang out. OK, the adults would enjoy it too. The orienteering campout is a great idea. We tried something like that last year, but the "permanent course" was less that exciting. The good part was that the older boys took responsibility for teaching the skills and leading -- all I had to do was tell the adults that they had to stay at the back of each group and were not permitted to talk (I'm working up to the boys going out hiking without the adults -- change takes time). Astronomy camp out sounds cool too. We have an amateur observatory nearby, but I'd love to go way out (hard to get away from city lights when you are sandwiched between Philadelphia and NYC). I saw a "dark skies" site at a state park out in Western Pennsylvania. A long drive, but I think it would be worth it. Eagle94 -- I love the crash site idea. There actually is an old WWII B-29 crash site within hiking distance of where we do summer camp. I think that some of the older guys would enjoy coming up with a series of calamities. Thank for the laugh on the signaling -- at least they know it works. One exercise I want to do is to have the boys at different distances and show the difference between yelling, whistling and signaling and how effective they are. I wonder how may guys in our Troop actually carry whistles and signal mirrors (other than me and my son). The trail maintenance idea is a good one. At camp this summer, the venture patrol and I did some trail maintenance on the hiking trails within the scout camp. That worked well as part of the requirements for some camp awards and the Paul Bunyan award and was in line with the venture patrols' goal of spending a lot of time hiking and backpacking (we did 44 miles over the course of the week). I'm also a member of the NY/NJ trail conference and they are the group responsible for maintaining the trails (including the AT) in this area. There are a bunch of scout camps that abut various trails. Thanks for all the ideas and keep them coming.

Great ideas. I like the wilderness survival idea. I've thought about having the boys go on a hike and "get lost" so that they have to survive. They will know ahead of time what is going on, but they will only be able to bring what they would have on a hike - i.e. the ten essentials plus an emergency blanket or bivy. The goal will be to stay out overnight and then hike back into camp the next morning. The only dinner the boys would get is what they have in their day pack - Cliff Bars, trail mix, etc. There probably wouldn't be time to build shelters (I've always laughed at the Wilderness Survival merit badge at camp where the boys have three days to build their shelters). The instructions would be that the adults are silent and "invisible" and we can only intervene in case of a true emergency. Our boys have done the "Cast Iron Chef" competitions at both campouts and at patrol / troop meetings. Those competitions are always a lot of fun. The primitive camping ideas is great too. We have one scout who wants to go on a fishing trip. Maybe a hike to a lake, some tarps for tents, wool blankets for sleeping and cooking over the fire. The boys can cary the cast iron frying pan, a grate to grill over the fire and an aluminum pot for boiling water. I can almost taste the freshly caught trout with some homestyle potato wedges on the side. We're thinking about canoeing and then backpacking into summer camp this summer. Last summer, we backpacked in 18 miles. The boys kept asking the other scouts, "So how did you get to camp?" We are also thinking of a 5 day, 30+ mile backpacking trip on the AT in Shenandoah at the end of the summer. I'm really looking forward to that. I love the shooting sports weekend idea, especially because the boys picked "ballistics and projectiles" as one of their monthly themes for this spring. We've done real rock climbing (i.e. not a climbing wall) earlier this year (COPE on Saturday, rock climbing on Sunday). Well worth it, especially for the kids that had only done the climbing walls before.

I'm looking for some ideas for different types of outings to incorporate into the troop's outdoor program. Ideas that would up the excitement level and give the scouts different experiences. Some of the ideas we have done or are planning include: Beach Campout Campout at COPE Course Canoeing Trip Backpacking Trips Lightweight Long Distance Backpacking (13 Miles in One Afternoon) Sea Kayaking (One Day Adventure While Staying at Scout Camp) Skiing / Snowshoeing (One Day Adventure While Staying at Scout Camp) Single Day Hikes and Urban Hikes Scout Camp Camping with Hikes (6 to 8 miles) Any other ideas?

Another option is to have the non-felony charge expunged from your husband's record. Expungement is typically available for those sorts of charges in the circumstances you mentioned. I would recommend looking into that regardless of what your decision is regarding submitting his application for Den Leader.