Hedgehog

The Troop uses the buddy system. When it is camping or hiking with my just wife and son, he is allowed to go off on his own to explore the surrounding area or to hike ahead of us.

There are plenty of risks and adventures out there within G2SS. Canoeing on a river, sea kayaking, whitewater rafting, rock climbing on a real rock cliff all have controlled risks -- but for an 11 year old it is the adventure of a lifetime. How about a backpacking trek on a path called "The Devil's Pass"or the rim of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon? Bouldering at Hawk Mountain Sanctuary or at Sunfish Pond on the AT? Our District camporee next weekend has Tomahawk and Knife throwing. How about taking a swim in a pond or river you encounter while hiking (in accordance with Safe Swim guidelines

I think that a program should have a variety of adventures for the boys. We camp at BSA camps, national parks and state parks but we include an activity. We've done day hikes, orienteering, kayaking, rock clmbing, COPE, bicycling and other activities. The boys have mentioned doing sailing (both using Sunfish sail boats and going out overnight in a larger boat), horseback riding, whitewater rafting and fishing this year. We also do a float trip -- the past two years we've done canoeing on the Delaware. We're looking into caneoing on a large lake and camping on an island. We do two to thre

My favorite line to use for the younger scouts is "Obviously, you have mistaken me for someone who is in charge. I"m not." That usually prompts a question of who is in charge (assuming another adult). I turn it around and ask them, "who do you think is in charge?" It usually takes two guesses to come to the SPL / PL. For the older scouts, it is a simple statement, "I"m not in charge, you are." As for the "can we do this?" question, my response is "if it is legal and not against the guide to safe scouting, the answer is you can do anything you decide to."

Probably would have been a better use of your time to take riflery -- that way you can shoot them and put them out of their misery because nothing we learned in WFA will help anyway. Both people who taught my WFA class were EMTs. Wildnerness First Resonders and EMT training instructors.

That makes the most sense. The answer is one of balancing prior commitments (you get what you raise) and compliance with your reading of the BSA/IRS guidelines. However, there is a lot of grey area in the BSA/ IRS guidance (and I wrote that before rereading the Bryant on Scouting article "But it’s not that simple. And the explanation won’t be as black and white as you’d like. That’s because the IRS rules governing things like individual Scout accounts have a lot of gray areas.") I've read the IRS guidance that is out there and it is less than clear what "substantial" private ben

@@Eagle94-A1, I agree - the IOLS and T-1st and First Aid MB could teach skills better and teach them in a wilderness concept. My son wants to take a First Aid class from the local fire department because as he puts it, "I learned the stuff for the Merit Badge, but I'm not sure I'd remember it or be able to do it in an emergency." Even if the First Aid Merit Badge was sufficient, adults are not required to have it. I also agree on the Epi-Pens and have been taught how to assist in administering them. My thought is that trained leaders should be able to carry Epi-Pens and administer in ca

From my perspective, the first aid training given to SMs and ASMs as part of IOLS is insufficient in case of a real emergency. Initially, it starts with the premise you know what the injury is, assumes that a full fledged first aid kit is available and ends with the premise that help is on the way -- all covered in about an hour on powerpoint slides. I'd have to check, but I'm not sure they even taught how to take a pulse or to count respirations per minute. WFA teaches assessment and diagnosis. A scout doubles over while backpacking -- what do you do to find out what the problem is? M

I agree that currently the cost is a significant problem. We're working with our local fire department to do the training, so hopefully that will bring the costs down. As for the difference between basic first aid and WFA, you just have to read the Scout Handbook or the First Aid Merit Badge booklet. Under basic first aid, for serious injurie the idea is to stabilize and call 911. The typical rule is don't move the injured person unless there is a secondary danger (i.e. fire). For broken bones, the rule is don't touch unless it has broken the skin and then only treat the bleeding.

All patrol based communication is handled by the boys without copying the adults. Each patrol runs an activity for the Troop part of our meeting every four weeks. Information about weekly Troop meetings and PLC meetings is sent out by the SPL to scouts with a copy to adults. Information regarding the outdoor program is announced by the SPL at the weekly meetings (all outings are announced three weeks in advance). One of the ASMs sends out a detailed e-mail regarding the outings to the scouts with a copy to the adults. For the boys, this serves as a backup for what is discussed at t

Not sure if it is a national requirement or not, but having one WFA trained adult is required for all backcountry outing in our Council. I can't imagine any parent letting their child go on a backcountry adventure without having someone appropriately trained and I can't imaging being responsible for the safety of a group of boys without having that training. We have at least 4 adults in our Troop that have WFA training -- typicaly two of them go on every outing - backcountry or not. I'm up for recertifcation in 2016 and I suspect that my son will also get certified... well because som

There are a couple of ways to help with the transition: Emphasize boy-led when Webelos and parents visit Have the parents interact with the boy leaders (they are the best evidence that the program works) Get the new parents to trust the Adult Boy Scout leaders Have an ASM "chat" with the parents who come to meetings about the advantages of boy-led and how things work Talk to the parents about how the kids taking responsibility for themselves in scouts mirror how they have to take responsibility for themselves in school Tell the parents how great their kid did on the last campout Have the new

My son and I have two different options for cooking / eating while backpacking (although on weekend trips we take both): The first is the JetBoil, Freezer Bag Cooking (with homemade cozys) or Freezed Dried Meals, two sporks and two mugs. Boil water, fill bags, wait 10 minutes and eat. Can also use the stove and mugs for coffee (Starbucks via packs or the Korean Maxim Mocha Gold which already has cream and sugar), cups of soup, tea. Nothing but water goes in the JetBoil -- keeps it cleaner. The second is a Snow Peak stove, Snow Peak Titanium 1400 Pot, two black plastic bottoms from

Stosh -- If you are ever in Central NJ / Southeast PA, you have an open invitation for dinner from me -- be it on the trail, in base camp or at my house. If it's at my house, I'll even supply the napkins and silverware. But be warned -- I may hit you up for your DO cheesecake recepie.

I guess we will have to disagee on that one. If I can eat fine-dining style for the same weight as your survival food, I'll take fine dining. Most of the foods I listed (the exception being the freeze dried turkey) can be bought in the grocery store and dehydrated at home. You can find polenta, mashed potatoes and couscous where you just add water and let it sit. Tuna and chicken come in lightweight foil packs. Gravy, pesto and other sauces come in small trail ready bags. I won't mention the individually wrapped biscotti and honey buns I bring to eat with my coffee. A lot of th

I agree.... to an extent. There are a lot of Dutch Oven recipies that are easy (and delicious). It gets a little more challenging when you try to do thing like braising meats before cooking or making apple pies or cakes using trivets. To get really challenging, try baking bread in a Dutch Oven. Ultimately, the Dutch Oven is just a tool which has its usefullness judged based on the quality of the food you cook. I disagree that backpacking would be the future non-scout camping. I suspect that car camping with the wife and then kids may be more frequent -- at least until your

You should be roasted over the coals for that comment. We've made stew, chili, lasagna, baked ziti, beef short ribs, pork spare ribs, roast beef, chicken and biscuits, chicken cacciatori, apple pies, corn bread, chocolate layer cakes, brownies, chocolate chip cookies, monkey bread and lots more using Dutch Ovens. Best resource is marksblackpot.com -- I love how each receipe is a story. Our Troop provides the boy in charge of planning the menu (usually a 6th grader working on the T-1st requirements) an e-mail outlining what is expected along with the list of cooking gear in the patro

I think that was my story. As Stosh says, train them then trust them. I've trained the older boys on map and compass skills. They understand what Baden Powell said about the best way to never get lost is to always know where you are. By instinct, they now check the map at every landmark -- lake, hill, cross trail, dirt road, river crossing, swamp, etc. -- and figure out where they are on the map and what the next landmark will be. They are now training the younger boys. Needless to say, the boys haven't forgiven me for the time I let them walk a mile downhill past the trailhead witho

Grey? That quote is pure gold! That really is the irony of it. To have a strong boy-led program depends on the adults. We have to train ouselves not to do what comes naturally (i.e. lead, organize, get things done) but to step out of the way to let the boys be in charge.

That would be me, the likeable ASM that continually explains "how we do things." Have chair and coffee cup, will travel. @@Stosh I agree wiith all of your edits. That is the ultimate goal. In a way, your edits demonstrate what I'm talking (and I think what you acknowledge in your later post) that going to boy-led is a process. A troop isn't either boy-led or not boy-led, but rather boy-led is a continuum. To begin on the continuum, start with changing the things that are easy (no resistance from boys and adults) and the things that are important. Assess how things are go

In theory, you should be able to go into the next scout meeting, announce that the troop is now boy-led, open up your camp chair, sit down, put in ear-plugs (to deaden the sounds of chaos) and drink coffee. So what if they fail, that is the point, right? @@Eagle94-A1, you are correct that it is a balance. It is the adult leadership that enables a troop to be boy-led. Start with a core group of the CC, SM and ASM who buy into boy-led. Their goal should be to provide as many opportunities for the boys to make decisions as possible and to prevent other adults from interfering. I'm goi

Just threw mine in my pack for the weekend campout -- that's after using it for 5 nights on our Troops 50 miler. I love it -- except for CBS (cold butt syndrom) which causes me to have to put a pad in the hammock which causes me to wake up in the middle of the night to adjust the pad. I probably need to get a down underquilt. To answer the questions: 1) Yes. Enjoyed it. See above for complaints. I love not having to sleep around rocks and there are always trees in the Northeast. The hammock and fly almost equal the weight of my two man backpacking tent -- But they take up a lot l

I applaud what you are doing and what you have done with your scouts and am sorry to see anyone leave this forum. The more variety of opinions the better the discussion. However, I feel your reference to "rich suburbs" is a barb directed at least in part at me based on your post here: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27653-getting-inexperienced-leaders-up-to-speed-faster/?p=425272If I offended you, that wasn't my intent. Rather, I intended to provide more information to counter your assumptions and barbed comments about the quaility of my Troop's program and scouts. I thought my posts

I'm not confused. A scout (and leader) is trustworthy. That means you can be trusted not to make quick decisions based on incomplete information and to treat people in accordance with the scout law. A scout (and leader) is helpful. That means you build people up rather than tear them down. A scout (and leader) is friendly, that means you assume someone is your friend and working toward the same goals unless you have clear proof otherwise. A scout (and leader) is kind. That means we don't insult people or bait them. The problem with scouting and with many on this forum is that they t

BW: My posts in this thread have been about getting adults involved. The presentation is to Webelos and their parents (who likely will be paying for the gear and accompanying their sons when the go shopping - especially since we are talking 5th graders) and new scouts. My point is that it gets them interested and excited - you would be surprised how many parents end up getting the gear to come backpacking with the Troop. It also gives the parents a sense that the adults know what we are doing and a sense of trust that they aren't sending their son into the wilderness with a bumbling idi